January 23, 200422 yr I admit it, I'm unabashedly in the "bring back Pudge camp", I thought so in November and I still would like to see him back with the Fish. That said I understand the economic argument which on paper would seem to favor the Castro/Redmond duo as our catchers.? But it's not just about money, it's about winning. I only got to see Ramon Castro play one game in PR so anyone who wants to disagree is open to doing so. But the guy looked awful behind the plate (one error, throwing his only stolen base attempt into the outfield after three errors the night before) and his only hit (albeit a homerun) was off a pitcher who was probably AA caliber who got shelled. Pudge is a leader, Jack reconfirmed that notion again in his interview with Berardino and he also called the guy "the best catcher that ever played for me". Coming from a catcher, and a guy whose whole life has been in baseball, that's high praise. Were it me, I'd find a way to make this happen even if it means losing both Redmond and Castro and bringing up Treanor to backup Pudge. What will probably happen is that either Castro or Redmond goes, my guess is Castro because he has some marketability. If Pudge re-signs May 1 this Marlins fan will be one happy fellow. P.S.? I think Marlins go to the White House tomorrow to met the Prez, I'm assuming Pudge will be there. Not at $10M a year, which is what you noted. Fudge is highly overrated I feel. Sure, he brings a name and credibility, but his stats werent on par with his past achievements. Let's not get confused here - Fudge didnt do us a favor. He signed with us because there were only two teams willing to overpay for him last year, us and the O's. We both had to because we were the 'lowly Marlins' last year. He didnt sign with us because he thought we could win a World Series, he signed to get the chance to play for the big contract - and he got to do it literally in his own backyard. If you disagree with that, what about the no-trade/no-arbitration clauses in his contract? What about his actions this offseason? The market fell out on him, and now he realizes it and wants to come back. I am all for it, but now we are going to have to: a) sign him May 1 and shell out $8M a year to do it b) sign and trade with the Tigers just to get the player who should have signed with us in the first place. That means we lose talent on top of the time/press lost just to get Fudge back. Either way, it seems we are spending quite a bit on Fudge, and I am not sure he is worth it. Yes, he is a 'leader', at least on the outside. But what goes on in that clubhouse is very very different. Give Castro his chance, and this is all speculation anyway. Jonny, I'm not the slightest confused. Are you? I didn't "note" $10 mil, I never suggested a dollar figure. All I said was I'd like to have the guy back and if the FO finds a way, either before or after April 30, I'm 100% in favor of it. I have no problem with anyone who disagrees. My opinion is just that, my opinion. Right. You only suggested that the cost didnt bother you. After all, you said it wasnt about money but about winning. But for a team with a limited revenue, it goes hand in hand. If you actually look at the stats, Fudge is not worth the investment at this point and Castro is not that far off offensively. Defensively, you could make the argument, but we really havent seen Castro yet - and yes, there should be some concern about him holding up over the course of a whole season. That is why Redmond makes sense. If money didnt matter, I would say get Fudge. But it does - so your point is kind of moot.
January 23, 200422 yr I admit it, I'm unabashedly in the "bring back Pudge camp", I thought so in November and I still would like to see him back with the Fish. That said I understand the economic argument which on paper would seem to favor the Castro/Redmond duo as our catchers.? But it's not just about money, it's about winning. I only got to see Ramon Castro play one game in PR so anyone who wants to disagree is open to doing so. But the guy looked awful behind the plate (one error, throwing his only stolen base attempt into the outfield after three errors the night before) and his only hit (albeit a homerun) was off a pitcher who was probably AA caliber who got shelled. Pudge is a leader, Jack reconfirmed that notion again in his interview with Berardino and he also called the guy "the best catcher that ever played for me". Coming from a catcher, and a guy whose whole life has been in baseball, that's high praise. Were it me, I'd find a way to make this happen even if it means losing both Redmond and Castro and bringing up Treanor to backup Pudge. What will probably happen is that either Castro or Redmond goes, my guess is Castro because he has some marketability. If Pudge re-signs May 1 this Marlins fan will be one happy fellow. P.S.? I think Marlins go to the White House tomorrow to met the Prez, I'm assuming Pudge will be there. Not at $10M a year, which is what you noted. Fudge is highly overrated I feel. Sure, he brings a name and credibility, but his stats werent on par with his past achievements. Let's not get confused here - Fudge didnt do us a favor. He signed with us because there were only two teams willing to overpay for him last year, us and the O's. We both had to because we were the 'lowly Marlins' last year. He didnt sign with us because he thought we could win a World Series, he signed to get the chance to play for the big contract - and he got to do it literally in his own backyard. If you disagree with that, what about the no-trade/no-arbitration clauses in his contract? What about his actions this offseason? The market fell out on him, and now he realizes it and wants to come back. I am all for it, but now we are going to have to: a) sign him May 1 and shell out $8M a year to do it b) sign and trade with the Tigers just to get the player who should have signed with us in the first place. That means we lose talent on top of the time/press lost just to get Fudge back. Either way, it seems we are spending quite a bit on Fudge, and I am not sure he is worth it. Yes, he is a 'leader', at least on the outside. But what goes on in that clubhouse is very very different. Give Castro his chance, and this is all speculation anyway. Jonny, I'm not the slightest confused. Are you? I didn't "note" $10 mil, I never suggested a dollar figure. All I said was I'd like to have the guy back and if the FO finds a way, either before or after April 30, I'm 100% in favor of it. I have no problem with anyone who disagrees. My opinion is just that, my opinion. Right. You only suggested that the cost didnt bother you. After all, you said it wasnt about money but about winning. But for a team with a limited revenue, it goes hand in hand. If you actually look at the stats, Fudge is not worth the investment at this point and Castro is not that far off offensively. Defensively, you could make the argument, but we really havent seen Castro yet - and yes, there should be some concern about him holding up over the course of a whole season. That is why Redmond makes sense. If money didnt matter, I would say get Fudge. But it does - so your point is kind of moot. Jonny, I'm not looking for an argument with you or anyone else. I was simply proclaiming my adoration and thankfulness for what Pudge contributed last season. I was speaking from my heart and not about the Marlins' finances and occassionally I reserve the right to do so.
January 23, 200422 yr Here's something interesting I found in an article on CNNSI.com.... Rodriguez rejected a $24 million, three-year offer to re-sign with Florida on Dec. 7. The Marlins are ineligible to re-sign him until May 1, although they could agree to a minor league deal and bring him up after the first month. I thought we couldn't talk to him at all, but if he keeps his options open and both parties ever get serious about Pudge returning, it looks like they could work something out before May 1st. And for those who like links -----> Link
January 23, 200422 yr Here's something interesting I found in an article on CNNSI.com.... Rodriguez rejected a $24 million, three-year offer to re-sign with Florida on Dec. 7. The Marlins are ineligible to re-sign him until May 1, although they could agree to a minor league deal and bring him up after the first month. I thought we couldn't talk to him at all, but if he keeps his options open and both parties ever get serious about Pudge returning, it looks like they could work something out before May 1st. And for those who like links -----> Link hehe....Pudge would tear apart our farm system for that first month!
January 23, 200422 yr I agree with the guy that it would be very stupid to trade for a guy and pay him the amount of money we didn't want to give up in the 1st place, I don't think anyone's arguing that, and that won't happen I assure you. But I can still see a couple of scenarios where Pudge could still end up with the marlins. We'll really get to see how much he enjoyed winning last year. Finally, a poster with a bit of intelligence. The argument that I successfully make and clearly WON is paying Pudge 40 mil and giving up a player/players or prospects to do so. This totally fabricated story on Pudge has no legs at all. But it has created a few days of debating by people who quite frankly live with their heads in the sand. Keep believing Pudge is coming back. I expect when Pudge is playing elsewhere that all of you who believe the myth will admit on this board how absolutely gullible you are.
January 23, 200422 yr For all the gullible Pudge believers, I guess the Miami Herald is misguided too. Read more proof that the beloved Pudge is gone for good. Posted on Fri, Jan. 23, 2004 'Zero' chance of re-signing Pudge BY CLARK SPENCER cspencer@herald.com IVAN RODRIGUEZ The Marlins have all but lost the catcher, who is negotiating with Detroit. Seattle may also be interested. Ivan Rodriguez is expected to be on hand at the White House today when President Bush congratulates the Marlins for their World Series title. But, despite increased speculation, the chances of the unsigned catcher rejoining Florida remain remote. One member of the Marlins front office, who asked not to be identified, said the chance of Rodriguez returning to the team next season is ``zero.'' And there are indications that interest elsewhere might be heating up. The Detroit Free Press reported Thursday that the catcher's agent, Scott Boras, intends to submit a counter-proposal to the Tigers' initial four-year, $40 million offer -- one that was considerably more lucrative than the three-year, $24 million offer from the Marlins that Rodriguez turned down in December. The Mariners might enter the Rodriguez sweepstakes, as well, in the wake of reliever Kazuhiro Sasaki's announcement that he might return to Japan and forfeit the $9.5 million remaining on his contract, according to a Seattle Times report. ''I want the Tigers and their fans to know that despite what they may hear or read that we're serious about them,'' Boras told The Free Press. ``We'd like to get it done, which is why I'm giving them the proposal [today].'' While the Marlins are prohibited from resigning Rodriguez until May 1, they could agree to a minor-league deal and bring him up after the first of the month. But general manager Admin Beinfest on Thursday dismissed any scenarios in which Rodriguez would return before opening day in April. SPECULATION ''All these things are speculative because there's nothing we can do on our end,'' Beinfest said. ``We have no negotiating rights. We cannot talk to him. I think [the failure to negotiate a new contract to retain Rodriguez] was unfortunate because this was a great marriage. For all the reasons except money, Pudge should be a Marlin.'' The low-budget Marlins are committed to a 2004 payroll of about $50 million. While Beinfest said the team has extended offers to several free agents, the figures being discussed are for less than $1 million. The Tigers, on the other hand, are spending extra to reverse the team's flagging fortunes. The Tigers lost 119 games last season and finished with baseball's worst record. Rodriguez isn't the only former Marlin expected to be on the plane to the nation's capital. Derrek Lee and Andy Fox also are scheduled to make the trip. CORDERO INTERESTED A representative for free agent outfielder/first baseman Wil Cordero hopes to interest the world champion Marlins in his client but said the talks remain no more than ``preliminary discussions.'' ''Florida is a team that we had thought early on made sense for Wil,'' agent Jeff Moorad said Thursday. Cordero, a former All-Star, hit .278 with 16 homers and 71 RBI for Montreal last season, when he earned $600,000. Moorad said he will continue to talk to other teams while gauging the Marlins' interest. Cordero and his agent later visited with Marlins officials at Pro Player Stadium. Herald sportswriter Kevin Baxter contributed to this report.
January 23, 200422 yr Yeah, everyone needs to stop nursing this old hope and turn their focus to the future.
January 24, 200422 yr Ivan Rodriguez's agent, Scott Boras, said he had lengthy conversations with the Tigers on Friday and that the two sides agreed upon the length of the contract -- four years. -Rotoworld
January 24, 200422 yr I would be upset to see him go to the Tigers. The last years of his career should be memorable, not being spent losing with the Tigs. I admit that I want him back, at first when he decided not to return, I was like "whatever" but now that there's talks going on that he might return, I realized that I would love it. I mean I don't really like him too much as a person anymore (but I think he's just been Borassed) but he's still a HOF catcher so if it's at a reasonable price, then yeah but if he's still demanding 10 million..pff kiss my ass.
January 24, 200422 yr I would be upset to see him go to the Tigers. The last years of his career should be memorable, not being spent losing with the Tigs. That's exactly why I hope the greedy bum goes to the tigers.
January 24, 200422 yr Since when should we believe anything BorASS is saying? I'm still wondering why pudge hasn't exepted any of those 4 year 40 million offers he had on the table.
January 24, 200422 yr Ivan Rodriguez's agent, Scott Boras, said he had lengthy conversations with the Tigers on Friday and that the two sides agreed upon the length of the contract -- four years. -Rotoworld I'm not sure how that is a "breakthrough" in negotiations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they always wanted four years, and the Tigers have always offered 4 years. I'm guessing that Pudge wants more money, or an out-clause after this year; that's where the talks are going to get sticky...
January 24, 200422 yr hey i would really love pudge back and all but then i think of this....... pudge had lost in the playoffs for many years with the rangers, pudge also hadnt been in the playoffs for a few years with the rangers...... then pudge comes here.... in a way we did pudge a favor, pudge did the same thing a year ago, he was waiting for a huge free agent contract and never got it. so as a favor we signed him to a one year deal and gave him the godamn 10 million a year, taking a huge chance cuz noboy gave him 10 mill knowing his past as being an injury prone player. sooooooo he then became part of a world series team, he won his first world seies tittle. you would thing he would show some loyalty us wouldnt you? he wanted 10 mill and we offered him 8 and he still f***ing said no. you know what i say to that? pudge go f*** yourself, he really showed his true characer there. f*** him, let him go to f***ing detroit.
January 24, 200422 yr you know what i say to that? pudge go f*** yourself, he really showed his true characer there. f*** him, let him go to f***ing detroit. How do you really feel?
January 24, 200422 yr hey i would really love pudge back and all but then i think of this....... pudge had lost in the playoffs for many years with the rangers, pudge also hadnt been in the playoffs for a few years with the rangers...... then pudge comes here.... in a way we did pudge a favor, pudge did the same thing a year ago, he was waiting for a huge free agent contract and never got it. so as a favor we signed him to a one year deal and gave him the godamn 10 million a year, taking a huge chance cuz noboy gave him 10 mill knowing his past as being an injury prone player. sooooooo he then became part of a world series team, he won his first world seies tittle. you would thing he would show some loyalty us wouldnt you? he wanted 10 mill and we offered him 8 and he still f***ing said no. you know what i say to that? pudge go f*** yourself, he really showed his true characer there. f*** him, let him go to f***ing detroit. Don't forget that Pudge lives 10 minutes from PPS, and his family lives here. I hate that man!
January 25, 200422 yr 4 years........wow big mistake???? If Pudge accepts this he will end his career in obscurity. Not a good move for a potential Hall of Famer. :banghead
January 25, 200422 yr Pudge is gonna make a big mistake. He has a home here, had a good salary; but that wasn't enough for him.
January 25, 200422 yr Some say Fudge has a pretty big posse/family obligation, so he needs every penny he can squeeze. This is the type of guy who, after he retires, cannot deal with the dropoff in salary. Also, I saw him interviewed several times at his gala fundraiser Sat night, and he still plays coy on returning to the Marlins ("maybe maybe you never know..........."). I am sick of his antics. Goodbye Fudge. Have a nice (cold) life in Det.
January 25, 200422 yr I agree. All this "Pudge will return to the Marlins" talk is wasted. The mods should move these Pudge-to-the-Tigers threads to the MLB forum.
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