anotherrealfan

That's funny...I don't recall seeing the sign for the Marlins, but I do remember seeing a sign as soon as you enter Georgia that says "Welcome to Georgia, Home of the 1995 World Champion Atlanta Braves". Just like in Gainesville, until they won their recent football NC, they had the signs all over gville and on license plates with the words "National Champions" without any year attached. Made them feel they were perennial NC. Typical Gator attitude. Oh, I am a gator grad, but not a gator fan-just one of the examples why. Go Canes. But I did love going to school there and would do it all over.

don't know if anybody knows this but D.Samson does a weekly show on 790 the ticket with LeTard....guess who sponsors his 15 minutes on the show? Braman Honda :| That's real good-irony of irony-unless-------as Fogelberg sang, it is all part of the plan. Let's think conspiracy, the Marlins don't actually prefer the OB site, do they? :whistle You can stop with the conspiracy theory. A few weeks ago, when the news of Braman's opposition was first reported, Samson came on that show and said he was aware of the irony that Braman was sponsoring the show. He said he had a lot of respect for Braman, but in this case he was dead wrong, and Samson said he has told him so. Good to know. Oh, comprende tongue in cheek?

don't know if anybody knows this but D.Samson does a weekly show on 790 the ticket with LeTard....guess who sponsors his 15 minutes on the show? Braman Honda :| That's real good-irony of irony-unless-------as Fogelberg sang, it is all part of the plan. Let's think conspiracy, the Marlins don't actually prefer the OB site, do they? :whistle

Your absolutely right. If the Marlins, or any team for that matter, are going to give a player 1.5 million, you would think a thorough eye exam would be part of the physical. He used the old trick we used to do, stupidly, in elementary school, by memorizing the eye chart.

While I acknowledge his generosity in charitable matters, this comes from the man who was voted one of the most despised owners in philadelphia sports history for his dismantling of a championship defense, his cheapness and his (as was his right) use of all the money he saved from getting rid of players to give him an astronomical salary (wish it was me). He further promised to pay for a new stadium in Philly (John Henry) but that didn't happen either and didn't live up to promises to support Eagle charities. He is far from the caring for the poor soul he tries to paint himself.

Excellent. Let's recap: I start a thread about a road sign which commemerates the Marlins' first World Series victory. Not even five replies into it, some wanker randomly comments about the presence of a huge confederate flag in Northern Florida, and we have a full blown discussion about the civil war and what the confederate flag presently symbolizes. Very well done I must say. This is exactly what I had in mind. I'm not saying this thread is ruined or was awesome to begin with, but :banghead Ha ha, you are right. But you have to be impressed with how smoothly it made the move. This is a talented group on this board. Happens all the time.

the giant confederate flag is on 75 by lake city... someone needs to remind north florida and the rest of the south they lost the war... This going to touch a hot point. So to clarrify from the start...No I am not a Confederate flag waving individual. Mainly because it isn't my heritage/history. My ancestors fought and died for the Union. But one needs to fully understand something before they form their own prejudices. Flying the Confederate flag isn't really about the Civil War or the percieved issues surrounding that war. It's more about a peoples heritage. When folks see someone flying the Cuban flag (as an example only) do they then think those people are supporting Castro? Or the immediate pre-Castro Cuba which was basically run by US based mafia families? I don't. No matter how much anyone would want to say it's different, it's not. I don't agree with any attempt to take away a citizen's pride in their own heritage and history regardless if I agree with the politics surrounding it. Granted, there are "pockets" of individuals that are to be considered bigots and fly that particular flag as a symbol of their hatred, but it isn't the majority. This all comes back to knowing your own history because if those same individuals/groups knew their history I sincerely doubt they would be using that flag as a symbol of their hatred. And don't confuse what we were all taught in school on our history with our true history. That is most often a glamorized and/or self rightous viewpoint of our true history as a country. We could get far deeper into this topic and other historical topics such as where the Pilgrims were actually headed for and why they ended up opting for Plymouth Rock instead, but even in the slow off season this really isn't the format. Don't want to make this a hot point, but wasn't the confederacy formed by states wishing to secede from the union in order to support their belief in slavery, amongst other things. It wasn't around since the start of this country but was formed to support a philosophy of racism. Also, the flag mostly seen now was the battle flag, not the earlier stars and bars, thus further supporting the racist theme of the confederacy and the fight to their so called right to keep men, women and children as slaves. This is quite different than a country with a flag that went through historic periods of times with different political systems. Don't tell me that the nazi flag is just a flag, like the confederacy, it was created to specifically represent an abhorrent belief. Not even close. The main reason for this war was import tarifs. The North was becoming industrialized and wanted to tax imported goods. The South relied on cash crops such as tobacco and cotton and needed free trade for the economy to flourish. Because the North was becoming an area of factory workers the need for slavery there died out. The North had no real movement to abolish slavery though other than fringe ablolitionist groups. In fact, it was Southern states as a whole that abolished importing slaves from other nations. New York was the largest state involved in importing slaves from Africa to the USA even though most of the imported slaves left NY to be sent to plantations in the South. When the Yankees passed the Emancipation Proclomation it was as an act of war against the already seceeded South as a punishment act. Neither you or I can simplistically say "the main reason" for war was.... As far as NY being the largest area of imported slaves, that speaks to the time line of this country, not the issues in 1861. NY was not the largest importer in 1861, and abolished slavery in the early 1800's. You make it seem that NY was a pro slavery at the start of the civil war. There were many issues for the war, constitutional, tariff, industrial as well as slavery and depending on what you read take your choice as to the "main" issue. So I may be closer than you think, but I do not care. The whole discussion to morph, and wow, from a comment about a billboard for the 97 Marlins to this, is quite interesting. Anyway, I cannot disagree with you, as history just does not lend itself to one reason as the cause of a major war.

Put the stadium on Watson Island we'll defenitely get a view!! Other than the huge traffic nightmare, I agree it would be a nice view.

the giant confederate flag is on 75 by lake city... someone needs to remind north florida and the rest of the south they lost the war... This going to touch a hot point. So to clarrify from the start...No I am not a Confederate flag waving individual. Mainly because it isn't my heritage/history. My ancestors fought and died for the Union. But one needs to fully understand something before they form their own prejudices. Flying the Confederate flag isn't really about the Civil War or the percieved issues surrounding that war. It's more about a peoples heritage. When folks see someone flying the Cuban flag (as an example only) do they then think those people are supporting Castro? Or the immediate pre-Castro Cuba which was basically run by US based mafia families? I don't. No matter how much anyone would want to say it's different, it's not. I don't agree with any attempt to take away a citizen's pride in their own heritage and history regardless if I agree with the politics surrounding it. Granted, there are "pockets" of individuals that are to be considered bigots and fly that particular flag as a symbol of their hatred, but it isn't the majority. This all comes back to knowing your own history because if those same individuals/groups knew their history I sincerely doubt they would be using that flag as a symbol of their hatred. And don't confuse what we were all taught in school on our history with our true history. That is most often a glamorized and/or self rightous viewpoint of our true history as a country. We could get far deeper into this topic and other historical topics such as where the Pilgrims were actually headed for and why they ended up opting for Plymouth Rock instead, but even in the slow off season this really isn't the format. Don't want to make this a hot point, but wasn't the confederacy formed by states wishing to secede from the union in order to support their belief in slavery, amongst other things. It wasn't around since the start of this country but was formed to support a philosophy of racism. Also, the flag mostly seen now was the battle flag, not the earlier stars and bars, thus further supporting the racist theme of the confederacy and the fight to their so called right to keep men, women and children as slaves. This is quite different than a country with a flag that went through historic periods of times with different political systems. Don't tell me that the nazi flag is just a flag, like the confederacy, it was created to specifically represent an abhorrent belief.

$945K is one of the biggest steals in the league for the best utility player in baseball IMO. I'll second that. I'm a huge fan of heart. Yea, but whose going to throw him around this year without Miggy. Stay away from Hammer, remember that stretch when Hammer was killing his own players running into them.

I can't stand it, Geffner is just a big guy who throws junk and has a high ERA-oops, wrong post. Good luck to Glenn, we have had, IMO, very good to excellent #2 guys. Now if we could just work on our #1 guy.... Speaking of our #1 guy, "don't you remember in 1957 when Hank Aaron was batting against Spahn in an intrasquad game, and Aaron yelled out to Spahn and" .......zzzzzzzzzzzzz (the listening audience falls asleep). And then Glenn will have to say something nice with a chuckle and say "yea Dave, those were some great times, I'm sure"

Going from the World Champion Sox...to the Florida Marlins... thats a pretty big fall Didn't hurt Davey O'Brien or Boog. Regardless of attendance, media people get noticed here. Look at all the locals who got jobs with the networks or in NY and started here. Of course, Boston is no small town either, but the point is that it is not really a downgrade.

I can't stand it, Geffner is just a big guy who throws junk and has a high ERA-oops, wrong post. Good luck to Glenn, we have had, IMO, very good to excellent #2 guys.

If anything, I was thrilled about the signing, seriously,only because it represented some new news about the team. We, as marlin fans, are stuck with getting excited about mediocre players and signings, but that is the way it is. Just look back at the hot stove league discussions while we were chasing Delgado-that was exciting. This is what we are left with and we embrace it because it is all we have. AND each other.

I can wait to see another reincarnation of Mark Redman. 6'9' of slowballing junk getting hit all over the place. Redman had one real solid year with us... Wild Card that post is not even worth the attention! Redman and Willis were two of the BIG reasons we even made it to the post season. Willis won like 8 of his very first decisions and during that time frame Redman was successful in all his starts. He even kept us in most games which is what average pitchers are suppose to do. Many wins in 03 were cause of these guys. Wish I can find a way to compile those stats from that year, anyone care to help? I guess we get statements like this from bandwagon fans that don't follow the season but choose to write their opinions based upon post season performances. Maybe next time you should actually follow the WHOLE SEASON that way you don't look stupid my friend. Why would you call someone stupid for posting their opinion? If you disagree w/ a post, then do so. State why you disagree and leave it at that. Heck, stooping to namecalling is even more pathetic than what Wild Card did. I guess this is what we get when we have adolescents posting on this site. :nono OK, so I did not see until this morning that my personal view of Redman made such an issue. Don't like being called a bandwagon fan or stupid, but it really supports that you are clueless on both counts and probably many others. It is an obvious flaw and I am sensitive that you are probably being treated for it. Now, for the future, please disagree as you wish, and since Redman has survived in the league for years there are others who think he has value. I just did not like to see him in clutch situations against good teams who would wait out his changeup and then let loose on his 87 mph fastball. Hendrickson played on a better team last year than the Marlins and did not do very well. This is just a signing and nothing more. I just do not feel this is a big positive, but nothing I said in a one sentence remark should warrant being called names. Personally, I would hope I am wrong on any criticism of any player we get because I want them all to hit over 300 and win most of their games. When they go out on the field in a Marlin uniform they will get my full support.

I can wait to see another reincarnation of Mark Redman. 6'9' of slowballing junk getting hit all over the place.

but I think a real veteran mentor for our club can be maybe a Julio Franco, More like a grandfather figure.

Norman Braman tidbits-doesn't change what he is doing now, but a little insight on him. Oh, how did that John Henry "I will build it myself" deal come out for Mr. Braman in Philadelphia. PRO FOOTBALL; Eagles Unveil Stadium Plan (new York times archives) Braman May Build Stadium E-MAIL Print Save Share Del.icio.us Digg Facebook Newsvine Permalink Published: November 1, 1993 The Philadelphia Eagles' owner, Norman Braman, says he will finance an open-air, grass-field football stadium if the city donates the land once occupied by John F. Kennedy Stadium. "If the city would give me the land, I have the ability to swing it financially," Braman said, according to today's editions of The Philadelphia Inquirer. "I think it's something that could be built rather rapidly," Braman said. "And I'd like to do it without costing the city of Philadelphia 5 cents." The field would "have to be somewhere around here; it doesn't have to be the old J.F.K. site," Braman said. Braman proposes to own the stadium, and Mayor Ed Rendell says he loves the idea. The Eagles owner says he envisions a stadium similar in size and style to the 80,290-seat Rich Stadium, home of the Buffalo Bills. Since the new stadium would have more than the 65,000 seats Veterans Stadium offers for football, Braman said he could reduce ticket prices in certain areas. If the Eagles move to a new stadium, Rendell said the city may refurbish Veterans Stadium into a baseball-only park with a grass field, similar to Baltimore's Camden Yards. September 21?28, 1995 city beat Tose Knows In 1985 Tose sold the team to Norman Braman for $70 million "Braman became a disappointment to me," said Tose. "He didn't follow through on a lot of things he said he would. He didn't move to Philadelphia and he didn't support the Eagles Fight for Leukemia. Braman sold out for money."

Well, that ad ran all day today on the radio. I listened to the radio for about 45 minutes today and heard it 3 times. The bottom line in the commercial is that "these property taxes were intended to help the poor, not meant for some backdoor deal to benefit the Marlins". So again, I ask the question again. I appreciate the input received already, but does anyone know the exact dollars and exact intended purposes of each of the 3 taxes? I'm not sure what taxes you're talking about, but the money being spent on the Marlins' stadium cannot be spent to help the poor. That's just a fact. Braman is lying to get his way. The concept of helping the poor does not mean standing on the corner handing out wads of cash. It is quite often included in economic stimulant packages designed to improve the economy of the surrounding area, provide for employment opportunities etc. Granted, the result is not always, or often, the same as the rosey pictures painted. The areas supported by the different portions of the package is designed to assist in improving the community. Not the only reason, but one of the sighted benefits.

Rex Rundgren? Is that Todd's kid? yes Well, that at least fills in one "Super Saturday" billing.

there is another guy in the mix, who was being set up for closer until his injury and that is Owens. He is projected to be back by May or June and while you do not want to overuse early, he still may eventually be a serious competitor for closer. For the time being, I am OK with Gregg

Rex Rundgren? Is that Todd's kid?

This guy does own a few dealerships here as well. He's just a very civic individual that is opinionated and has the resources to let it be known. Let him have his say. With his other community contributions and things he has done for South Florida in general, he has deserved it. To me it's just part of the democratic process. Which means I see no sense in stomping our feet and calling him all kinds of names just because his opinion is different than ours. :chair rant, stomp, scream. Fact is all the issues of money being better spent on schools, the poor, health care etc. are not new Bob. They are the same issues that can be used to scuttle anything that a city wants to do, good bad or indifferent, for the "public good". Even police protection and school improvements are met with anger because the money never benefits everyone equally. Scream and rant, why is money being spent for the south part of town, I live in the North. Why does my community only get 3 new patrolman when the guy in the adjacent community is getting 10 new police officers. This can go on and on (like me). Braman has known about the efforts for the stadium, the tunnel etc for a long time but has bided his time for now-why? They could not wait to run him out of Philly. He HAS been a mainstay in S. Florida and its philanthropic circles for many years, a big giver and a very generous giver-no doubt, yet we all know that the money for these projects are specific so what is his agenda. I know Mr. Braman and know when he is involved in something, he wants the credit. He is not one of those anonymous donors and likes to take credit even when he has minimal involvement. I do not know, but was he against the Carnival Center? We know he was against the orange bowl renovations and played a big hand in causing the city not to fix it up for Joe Robbie, which caused the city to lose the Dolphins. What does he gain by standing in the way of the things that other MAJOR cities do to look to the future and provide for modernization and improvement. We know that there will be issues with the whole project, bad planning, kickback schemes, delays, poor management-but this project being scuttled will not benefit the community-I am confident of that. Fact is, his view may be different than many of us, and because it is, we do have the right to be upset-Just as Mr. Braman would not politely step aside if someone disagrees with him in any of his business ventures. He wouldn't do it and why should anyone on this board feel obligated to be soft spoken in their disagreement with his position. OK though, name calling is not appropriate. Otherwise, hey Norman, leave us alone.

What the heck, 28 and 117 would be totally unbelievable if he could approach those figures again.

I can't stand Michael Putney... Miami Herald, January 2nd COUNTY FINANCES Questions remain about the new ballpark BY MICHAEL PUTNEY Of the many file folders on my desk, the largest, oldest and most vexing is the one marked ''Marlins Stadium.'' I hauled it out and thumbed through it in preparation for the Miami-Dade Commission meeting on Thursday, Jan. 10, when the latest in a string of stadium financing plans will be discussed -- and probably approved. Nevertheless, the question for commissioners and the mayor remains: Should it be? ? Should half a billion dollars, most of it public money, be invested in a sports facility that financially benefits a private corporate enterprise? ? Should $370 million in taxpayers' dollars be spent on a facility that would have no mass transit, aside from buses, or adequate parking, beyond a proposed 6,000-space parking garage? ? Should that much money be spent on a nondescript neighborhood that offers no nearby bars, clubs, restaurants or shopping to make a night or afternoon at a ballgame a fuller experience? ? Should a stadium be built at the Orange Bowl site merely because the city of Miami owns the land and can't afford to buy any other land downtown, where a stadium might make sense? ? Should the city of Miami and Miami-Dade County pony up their share of stadium money before the Marlins have guaranteed theirs? ? Where would the Marlins get $155 milllion in ''up front'' money? And even if they can, does Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria have deep enough pockets to pay for stadium cost overruns, as he has promised to do? Or could he cut corners on design and materials to bring it in on budget? Yep, a bunch of tough questions, and I don't pretend to have the answers. I just fear the questions may not be asked when the stadium train rumbles through the commission chamber next Thursday. The engineers are Mayors Carlos Alvarez and Manny Diaz, both longtime supporters of a new baseball stadium. Their usual argument in favor is that Miami can't be a major-league city without Major League Baseball played in a ''world class'' stadium. That's an argument, however, that evaporates under close scrutiny. We already are a major city thanks to our airport and seaport, the export/import companies that use them and the international banks and investment firms that do business here. I'd argue that South Beach, the Miami Book Fair International and Art Basel Miami Beach do more to confirm our big-league status than the Marlins. Still, professional baseball is a nice amenity for any city, and it's better when played in a comfortable, accessible, affordable stadium. Even Joe Robbie Stadium (forgive me, I've been here a long time) can provide an excellent baseball experience. A hot dog and a few brews while watching a pitching duel or hit-fest on a summer night is a lot of fun, and I'd be disappointed if it weren't there. But should taxpayers for the next few decades subsidize that day or night at the ballpark, even using tourist bed-tax dollars whose spending purposes are limited? That's what county commissioners and the mayor must decide next week. I trust they will answer all the questions I've posed -- plus many of their own -- before they vote. A running out of time on the clock editorial rehashing all the same questions that we have been discussing for the longest time on this board. Maybe we should look into a plagiarism charge. What is the purpose of this editorial at this time in the process and what is Putney doing. An editorial should provide new insight, commentary and thoughtful discussion-not a cheap rerun of old questions and issues. It is as if Putney had to write an article to meet a deadline, had too much to drink on New Years eve and just took the easy, cheap way out. And oh yea, as much as I am for diverse choices in a city, while the Art Basel and the Book Fair are nice, I am not sure I would argue that those events are what really make us a major league city. By themselves, they serve fewer people and a much smaller section of the population than a successful baseball team. Maybe I aint got no culture, but I doubt the Art Fair is well known outside S. Florida to anyone but rich art owners. I would say that on a see-saw I'd put a higher value to a community overall to MLB over Art Basel. Yet I do know at least a couple dozen people who come to Miami for Art Basel and I don't know anyone who comes here to see MLB(apart from people on this board). Granted it's a small sample size, and my sister is an artist and all the people I know are through her. Still, this is just one artist, and none of the people fall into the rich art owner category. Over the course of a baseball season, and the attraction of S. Florida as a tourist destination, many baseball fans make the trip to see their team play here because it is S. Florida so they plan their trip accordingly. Maybe they would have come anyway, or maybe they say, "hey, we are playing down there, lets make a few days out of it". So, if we can be competitive, we can make it on the national telecasts as well. Then the network can lead off, like they always do, with shots of the hotels, the beaches, the skimpy bathing suits etc. Hell, I live here and I want to go to S. Beach when I see that. What do they show us from Pittsburgh to make us want to take a trip there? The impact and long term marketing is much more than the book fair and art basel. Again, I think they all belong here, but the issue is with Putney making a point about measuring the relative value.