anotherrealfan

I have heard a little bit more shocking story from a Yale student. Loria majored in art history while at Yale in 1962. The new History of Art Department building, which is currently under construction next to the Art and Architecture building, will be named for Jeffrey Loria. Loria has been identified as the lead donor for the project. The new building is part of the $500 million Arts Area Plan to build and renovate homes for the University?s arts programs. It's widely believed that Loria has donated $100m :blink: in the past 3 years for naming rights and for construction in a series of donations. Some alumni members donated "only" $20m. Construction on the Loria Center began in July 2006 and is scheduled to be completed by July of 2008. The Marlins were $30m short of building a baseball stadium in Florida 3 years ago. :banghead I would imagine that all this will not go over well in negotiations with the city when he wants to drop his rent payments so the taxpayers can foot more of the bill.

Well, don't expect me to defend Loria, but a $20 mill contribution may not mean an outlay of cash at this time. It could be a charitable trust whereby $20 mill is contributed, Yale is named as the beneficiary when Loria goes to the big free stadium in the sky. A present value tax deduction is taken currently, but the money is controlled by Loria and a portion paid back to him annually. What is left at death will go to the named charity. We all know Loria may need a big deduction since it is possible he has large taxable income not offset by prior losses-oh blashphemy to the Loria fans. Cmon, the back end deals is a Loria specialty, but this would be a legitimate tax maneuver-can't fault him. And it's probably just estate planning or related to his art business where he has given millions away in art work here in Miami and other places over the last few years. Were he to inject $20 million into the Marlins partnership which is what I hear people saying above - I would assume that would have a dilutive effect on the minority owners or force them to put up their share as well to stay at the same percentages they currently have. And if it's being done for tax purposes the write-off from charitable giving, either in the current year or later on, disappears. I hope all of you the success in the future that creates this kind of predicament for you. 03, I can see if we carry on this discussion we will just basically put everyone else to sleep as taxes, properly discussed, is coma inducing to those not interested in it. I believe the Marlins are an LLC, and Loria putting up money would not necessarily cause a change in ownership interests. The terms of the agreement would dictate ownership allocations and profit/loss allocations. He could put the money in as a loan and create a priority interest where his loan would be repaid, with interest, before any distributions are made to minority partners. Whether this would require approval by the minority partners again would be spelled out in the LLC agreement. I have to think that he has the right to make these decisions as the majority owner and the managing partner of the organization without approval of the minority group. At least that is how it seems he has run the operation to date.

According to Gammons the Angels are wrong in saying that the Marlins were trying to change the terms of any trade. He says they did not. Did not say much else. Did not hear if he named a source for his position. Seems like lots of gamesmanship going on for a Big Fish.

This Loria ownership has done so many things to show how classless and despicable they are in reality but the worse is tarnishing Cabrera's reputation, he is widely being compared to Manny Ramirez and very unfairly. Cabrera has played his heart out on the diamond, he has made mistakes mostly because he was not in the best playing shape but he did work hard to get better The following Sporting News article is a product of the FO's labor and it is an outrage http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=311760 Miguel being Miguel not the right match for the Marlins November 29, 2007 Sean Deveney The Marlins might be willing to keep Cabrera if they knew for sure he would soon reach a similar balance -- lose weight, become a better third baseman, get a little more sleep and show up for team functions. Cabrera very well could do those things. As he gets older, he almost certainly will. But the Marlins can't be sure, and for a team expecting a payroll in the $30 million range, Florida can't afford uncertainty. Out of the whole column, this paragraph about the "marlins might be willing to keep Cabrera..." clearly indicates that the writer does not have a clue about how this organization works. Does anyone really believe this is about the team worrying about spending money on a player because he has gotten heavy and has had "allegedly" some behavior issues? Miggy could be a model citizen-this would be the same thing happening.

Well, don't expect me to defend Loria, but a $20 mill contribution may not mean an outlay of cash at this time. It could be a charitable trust whereby $20 mill is contributed, Yale is named as the beneficiary when Loria goes to the big free stadium in the sky. A present value tax deduction is taken currently, but the money is controlled by Loria and a portion paid back to him annually. What is left at death will go to the named charity. We all know Loria may need a big deduction since it is possible he has large taxable income not offset by prior losses-oh blashphemy to the Loria fans. Cmon, the back end deals is a Loria specialty, but this would be a legitimate tax maneuver-can't fault him. Sorry, should not have said "can't fault him". It is his money, but it shows his committment to the Marlins while he cries poverty.

Well, don't expect me to defend Loria, but a $20 mill contribution may not mean an outlay of cash at this time. It could be a charitable trust whereby $20 mill is contributed, Yale is named as the beneficiary when Loria goes to the big free stadium in the sky. A present value tax deduction is taken currently, but the money is controlled by Loria and a portion paid back to him annually. What is left at death will go to the named charity. We all know Loria may need a big deduction since it is possible he has large taxable income not offset by prior losses-oh blashphemy to the Loria fans. Cmon, the back end deals is a Loria specialty, but this would be a legitimate tax maneuver-can't fault him.

That would show real support-attending an FIU game, free or not. Anyway, for those not going, go see the Austrailian Pink Floyd at the Filmore on Sat. night (the old Gleason theater). If you like the Floyd, after a few songs, you won't realize these guys are not the real thing. Oh, and you can wear your Marlins cap for support.

Jerry Del Castillo said on his radio show today (11/27/07) that the City and County continue in negotiations with the Marlins over the stadium. One of the points the politicians are trying to include in the deal is a guarantee that the team won't have a minor league payroll. They want Loria to guarantee a competitive team at least as far as salaries are concerned. Right, that is something we will never see Loria agree to, or if he does, how would they enforce it-by locking out the Marlins if the payroll goes below the floor. In reality, if MLB does not have a cap or a floor, it would be hard to figure how the landlord can make this one of the lease provisions.

He could move the team and play in a minor league park and still make 10's of millions in revenue sharing and .com revenue. You really have no idea how the business of baseball works do you? Do you think the rest of the owners would let him move into a minor league park because it would take a vote by the executive committee then a vote of all the owners before he can move the team anywhere. Or is it you're blinded by your hatred you're not thinking straight? If you guys want to hate Loria that's fair. You're a fan, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to tell you what to think. But if your belief system is founded on thoughts like this you really ought to take a few minutes to reevaluate your position. Actually, assuming that the lease runs out in 2010 and Huzeinga doesn't want to have the Marlins as tenants anymore, how would the owners prevent Loria from playing his home games at the Marlins' spring traning facility in 2011 (almost like the minor leagues)? Even though Huzeinga received the "tax rebate" for allowing the Marlins to play in DS, I don't think the league or the Marlins can force Huizenga to keep the Marlins as a tenant. So, while I get your point that Loria can't just up and move his team without the consent of MLB (and the owners), in 2011 Loria might be able to get away with that. If a stadium deal is reached, Huizenga said he would allow the marlins to play on year to year lease until the stadium is built. 03, maybe I give you too much credit. It should be obvious, but apparently not to you, that I would not believe that Loria could move the Marlins to a minor league park. The point was that attendance is not an issue with Loria, nor is increasing payroll. He makes more money running the team as cheaply as possible. Granted, I do not spend my days and nights "studying" the business of baseball as you do, it would take the fun out of being a fan, yet, I know business pretty damn well, and would not be difficult to fully understand all of the nuances of baseball business is I choose to ignore my current business, my clients etc. So, I leave the 7000 word posts to you and try to join in on the conversations without insulting others. As far as the stadium issue, I seem to recall that part of the deal with the Canes would make it very difficult for the Marlins to continue beyond 2010. It may be that he promised no more infield after 2010-I dont know. When it comes to being insulting, don't be modest, you're right up there with the best of them. If you don't understand the corelation between attendence and profitability I can't help you and I don't think anyone can. Your statement is the perfect example of the saying, "garbage in, garbage out." You start with false assumptions, you wind up with flawed conclusions. Why must you act like such a jerk so often. You provide interesting insight in many cases and then bring yourself down many notches. Thanks for the first statement above, false as it may be, but one only thinks like one acts himself. This is a baseball board, I made my statement, live with it-otherwise you have issues that I cannot "help you" with.

I mean this with all sincereity - what is the benefit to having season tickets? Surely you can get tickets to any game you want and you don't need to purchase 81 games... It really is tough to consider going to 81 games a year. Hopefully when we get a new place, season tix will be more meaningful and there will be 20 game packs available so more fans can be part of the fan base without it being too costly and to obligating. As far as buying season tix, granted, you do not need it for the Marlins in their situation. It does keep you feeling more connected to the team and probably going to some games that it would be too easy to say "not tonight".

He could move the team and play in a minor league park and still make 10's of millions in revenue sharing and .com revenue. You really have no idea how the business of baseball works do you? Do you think the rest of the owners would let him move into a minor league park because it would take a vote by the executive committee then a vote of all the owners before he can move the team anywhere. Or is it you're blinded by your hatred you're not thinking straight? If you guys want to hate Loria that's fair. You're a fan, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to tell you what to think. But if your belief system is founded on thoughts like this you really ought to take a few minutes to reevaluate your position. Actually, assuming that the lease runs out in 2010 and Huzeinga doesn't want to have the Marlins as tenants anymore, how would the owners prevent Loria from playing his home games at the Marlins' spring traning facility in 2011 (almost like the minor leagues)? Even though Huzeinga received the "tax rebate" for allowing the Marlins to play in DS, I don't think the league or the Marlins can force Huizenga to keep the Marlins as a tenant. So, while I get your point that Loria can't just up and move his team without the consent of MLB (and the owners), in 2011 Loria might be able to get away with that. If a stadium deal is reached, Huizenga said he would allow the marlins to play on year to year lease until the stadium is built. 03, maybe I give you too much credit. It should be obvious, but apparently not to you, that I would not believe that Loria could move the Marlins to a minor league park. The point was that attendance is not an issue with Loria, nor is increasing payroll. He makes more money running the team as cheaply as possible. Granted, I do not spend my days and nights "studying" the business of baseball as you do, it would take the fun out of being a fan, yet, I know business pretty damn well, and would not be difficult to fully understand all of the nuances of baseball business is I choose to ignore my current business, my clients etc. So, I leave the 7000 word posts to you and try to join in on the conversations without insulting others. As far as the stadium issue, I seem to recall that part of the deal with the Canes would make it very difficult for the Marlins to continue beyond 2010. It may be that he promised no more infield after 2010-I dont know.

We have no idea how much they are making or losing or lost previously. We all know Wayne did not lose the money he claimed because of the way he doled out Marlin money to other entities he owned, simply shifting money from one pocket to the other and then pulled out the first pocket and said "see, nothing there except the big hole". Loria does not have the multiple company method available to do this, but he has the pockets that we do not get to see. I choose to believe that Loria is doing just fine and that MLB has not done anything because they can't and because it is to their best interest to not air dirty laundry as they try to get, or squeeze, the city to put up more money and take less of a "contribution" (I love the liberal use of this word by MLB and the Marlins).

All the logic in not renewing because of the lack of respect shown to the customer, the lack of committment by the FO, the BS, all have a basis and if that is why you would rather lose the team that is your choice. Yet, when it comes down to it, why I argue for a publicly funded stadium because sports is not the same as a retail store who gives you a bad product, is the same reason I still renewed even while I am disgusted with the anguish thrust upon the fan base. It is a business, but a much different business to the community as a whole than a new furniture store. I have no need to describe the feeling walking in the stadium opening day in 1993 to anyone who loves baseball and finally had a major league team here, and while I never envisioned the roller coaster rides, the fire sales etc, I would rather have what we have than imagine the opposite feeling from 1993 I would have when it is announced the Florida Marlins are moving elsewhere. That would be worse than any hatred I have for how this team operates. So I will still root for whoever is out on the field and as long as the team is here there is hope for a change in ownership and direction. Once they are gone then we have a blank spot for the summer months to be filled by Dolphin talk radio.

lol yesterday MLB was worried, today close to a deal, tomorrow... ...the Rays get a stadium, which hopefully will light a fire under Loria's ass as he'd hate to be shown up by his in-state rivals. We need to stop applying concepts of appearances of intergrity to the Loria regime. He has a spin "excuse" for every promise broken, for every comment made, for every agreement in principle. There is no circumstance where a fire will light his butt as long as he can maximize, regardless of competitive integrity, his complete profit. If the team happens to luck out and compete, he can point to that as part of his plan. If they flop, which is more likely, well, his pockets will bulge and really, that is all that he cares about. I agree that making money is a goal, just to what extreme. The other owners need to make this worm squirm before any fire is lit under his butt. He really holds all the cards at this time. He has no incentive to agree with anything YET. He could move the team and play in a minor league park and still make 10's of millions in revenue sharing and .com revenue.

Can we say "market correction" version 3? I would like to see ownership correction version 4

As if they didn't already have a hard time getting people to come to the games... You think Wayne really cares?

AP MIAMI – The Florida Marlins today named Mark Wiley their pitching coach, completing the coaching staff for the 2008 season. The announcement was made by Marlins President of Baseball Operations Admin Beinfest. “Mark [Wiley] is an accomplished pitching coach, and we are excited to have him back with the Marlins organization,� Beinfest said. “He will be an important part of our young pitchers’ development and success at the Major League level.� Wiley, 58, returns to the Marlins after two seasons as Special Assistant for Baseball Operations with the Colorado Rockies. He served as Florida’s pitching coach in 2005. The upcoming season will be Wiley’s 39th in professional baseball, and his 16th as a pitching coach at the Major League level. In addition to his last stint with the Marlins, he has served as pitching coach for the Orioles, Indians and Royals. Manager Fredi Gonzalez’s coaching staff for the upcoming season is set: Carlos Tosca (bench coach), Mark Wiley (pitching coach), Jim Presley (hitting coach), Bo Porter (third base/outfield coach), Andy Fox (first base/infield coach), Steve Foster (bullpen coach), Pierre Arsenault (bullpen coordinator).

This trade is not gonna happen but if i can trade away Cabs and Willis and get back this... I'm Down Florida Marlins Get: C Russell Martin SP Brad Penny OF Matt Kemp RP Jonathan Broxton SP Chad Billingsley RP Jesse Crain How does Brad Penny fit in? why not, its all fantasy anyway-you can add anyone you want.

And I thought last years bullpen, even Mando for a while, was as good as it has been since 03. The old arms we tried from 04 on were a disaster. The pen has a year of experience, Logan is back, Ricky looks good, Lindstrom, tattoo boy etc. I have no real issues with the pen. If the Ani Bull can make it back, what a plus.

You left out Peyton Manning coming to the Dolphins for a 7th rounder.

So your point is that the city and county should cover the $30 million (not $60 million) state subsidy and that the city and county should cover all the increases in the construction costs over the past 3 yaers? I hope the city and county leaders are not as stupid as you want them to be. I thought the state subsidy was $2 million per year for 30 years. I only think the city and county should cover all the increases in costs because they are insisting on a terrible site. If they were sane and moved downtown, then I'd say all parties should contribute equally because it benefits all. The OB site benefits no one so only the fools who demand it be there should be paying. On the parking garage, IIRC, in the previous OB deal the parking garage would be pay for itself with the parking revenues.. the Marlins were not getting the parking revenues. You may be right, my memory on this is a bit vague. If so, I retract saying that parking revenue is an difference. Yes it is correct that the original plan had a parking garage and the revenue from the garage went to service the debt on the bonds issued for its construction. But once the parking garage debt service was retired revenue sharing kicked in, which could mean millions annually to the Marlins over the life of the lease. So in effect you're both right, but not taking into account the significant revenue surplus generated when prorated annually from the garage. It's not inconceivable that over the term of the lease both the city and the Marlins could net an average of $3 million a year from the garage. That's a big chunk of change. $3 mill is nothing to sneeze at-but the big picture is still that the Marlins would not share in this for a while and thus lose nothing up front. Hopefully, a profitable team with stability would make this change in the contract not be a stumbling block. As it is, on an annual basis, the 3 mill represents just a bit more than one half of one percent of a $500 million building-and why that would cause the Marlins to back out does not compute. Except, as I feel, it was just an excuse that Loria needed to justify what he wants all along and that is to committ minimal funds or even nada. If it turns out that there is a need for the parking garage, it could be added on later. I would guess that there are other built in excuses Loria is waiting to pull out of his hat. He can always send Samson in to annoy and agitate everyone, and then when they kick little David's butt out of the commission room, Loria can say he just can't work with the City.

I think Marlins2003 is right that the Marlins won't be offering to pay for cost overruns. And like fawouls' said, this makes sense as it's the city and county that chose this awful site, not the Marlins. If the Marlins offer $205K or $215K they are being very generous. It makes no sense for the city and county to cover cost overruns. All along the Marlins have agreed to cover the overruns including during the previous version of the OB stadium. This is just another way of reducing their contribution. And this goes back to my belief that Loria will say anything along the way that sounds conciliatory, but with the belief that something will happen that will allow him to back off and find fault with someone other than himself. And if there is truth to the story about the extra revenue from MLB.com, then may the witches of halloween boil up a brew of filth for this ownership and baby stepson.

He can be forced to sell. And its the one instance where it would most likely not be a PR nightmare for MLB. Loria is a carpet bagger. He isnt wealthy when compared to other owners. I sincerely believe if you looked at his books you would find 3 major jailable offenses(extortion-crying poor all the time, begging for monetary handouts, etc.; money laundering-mishandling money from revenue sharing and team profits and intentionally cooking the books to show an operating loss; misappropriation of funds-channeling money from revenue sharing that is earmarked for the team into his own personal funds and using little if any to upgrade the team). Want to sue me for slander(or would this be liable since its a message board?) go ahead. I am poor, so you wont get anything. Plus you would have to open your books to independent council to prove the allegations wrong. And I dont see Loria doing that, ever, because I really truly believe his books would show Loria to be a white collar criminal of epic proportions. Such anger-do you realize how much it costs to train for a triathalon. With all the scrutiny, steroid prices have gone through the roof, retrofitting David's swimming pool to be 500 meters etc. And then we have to have this owner and have to watch John Henry on TV spending money like he prints it himself.

Is this the Yankee board? JK. Girardi takes the job but no A Rod, Posada, Rivera, Pettitte. The yanks need to get younger anyway, but it different in NY than here. Girardi will need to be quite a bit different if he thinks the Steinbrenner boys will just let him do whatever he wants.

The concept is called paying rent, not investing or mortgaging your property. Thus, while is sounds rational, the Marlins are not giving up 2/3 of their value. Rent will typically be paid from current operating revenues, not from appreciated assets. Nor do I even for a moment think the Marlins will go to a bank and obtain a loan against the title to the franchise. So, while we understand the semantics of the marlins "contribution", the reality in a business sense is quite different.