champkind

If the Marlins offered Cabrera 10 years, $100 million......he would laugh in their face. because he's worth way more than 10MM per year. Obviously the idea of a guaranteed deal does have value. I wonder what it would really take to lock him up. If Chase Utley gets 85mill than Miguel gets......anyone? anyone?

This is the reality of developing young pitchers. It's why historically we will be lucky if we get two long term starters out of Anibel, Olsen, JJ, and Nolasco. The same historical probability suggests we will be lucky if one ace emerges out of our young minor leaguers. And this is all the more reason to appreciate Dontrelle- he of the career sub 4.00 era and the multiple 200 inning seasons without an injury. Not trying to be a pessimist but this is the business we have chosen.

If this organization trades Dontrelle it had better strike gold on the players acquired. We all want this team to succeed. If trading Dontrelle makes us better than so be it. Is Tampa going to give us Upton and Badelli? Is Arizona going to pay a king's ransom (which better include Chris Young) ? It better be a trade like that...otherwise why look to trade a great pitcher who you control for 3 full seasons. And I wonder if most people realize what it would take to sign Miggy now. Would 10 yrs/100 million get it done? (i mean now) It might not, hard as that is to believe. We had better start throwing out contract numbers to him sooner rather than later. If he hits FA he will get a bigger deal than A-Rod's punk ass.

Getting Dennis Eckersely was huge for the Cardinals

We're #1!

Should we consider Nolasco and one of our top minor league arms? Can Rios play center? I think he is a bad ass offensive player and certainly a great RF. If we could get solid CF defense from either Hermedia or Rios then this is a trade we should make. This guy was crushing the ball last year before he got that staph infection. He also fits our model of being young and cheap (i have no clue but i'm guessing he's 2-3 years away from FA). Adding him to our lineup would be sick.

Less than 2 grams of weed huh? The guy obviously has a problem Yeah I dont really see this as a big deal either Don't you guys realize that marijuana is a gateway drug? A gateway straight to hell.

That is one sorry ass list of players. No wonder so much $$$ was thrown around this offseason at the few decent players who were available.

SOSH is a solid site with sharp people. But did anyone read on at the ridiculous, "And then we can get Miguel Cabrera from them..." f***ing ridiculous. Someone also goes on to say that Hanley's season was more or less a fluke. I feel like punching someone in the face.

I feel your frustration as envisioning BJ Upton or Chris Young running around in centerfield would make this team practically complete and potentially dominant. Beinfest must have his reasons to wait on both our 4 returning SP's and the JV rotation. But I have no problem trading very good pitching to get the stud CF we need.

Tampa's rotation is a joke. I think he could easily end up being #2 or #3, even if just cause it's Tampa. But even if you think he'd just be #4 or #5 there, that's still worth more than Upton keeping the bench warm. If they were actually planning on starting Upton somewhere it would make sense. BTW, no point in comparing Upton to Hermida, really. But if you really want to split hairs about who is "worth more", then riddle me this - who contributed more to the team's successes this past season? Hermida or Nolasco? Just because he'd theoretically be the 2nd or 3rd (Niemann) starter on TB next year, doesn't mean he IS a 2nd or 3rd starter. That just means Tampa Bay really stinks. Nolasco is more then likely going to develop into a 4/5, or a plus swingman. Which isn't a bad thing by any stretch, but he's completely expendable on our end if we're able to acquire a CF of equal/greater value, and likewise any SP in the organization. Hermida versus Nolasco? It's Hermida by about 10 miles. You are severely undervaluing BJ Upton. The kid would handle an OF transition just fine even if there were some initial bumps in the road, and he'll probably hit something like .270/.340/.425, 45/15 SB, right away. Let alone there is tremendous growth in avg (career .296 minors, 1-2 years young per level), where he might turn into some kind of outrageous .300/.375/.500 type hitter by the time he is 25. Probably settle somewhere in the middle of those two lines, which is still a tremendous .825ish OPS CF, with speed. Tampa knows what they are sitting on. If they play him in the OF for 2 months and he shows he isn't a disaster at the MLB level, his value absolutely sky rockets. I agree that for lack of a complete MLB resume to not want to dish any of the 1-4 SP for him, but I think it would be extremely fair to offer the Rays Nolasco (whom they have liked in the past, linked to Gathright) and take their pick of any SP in the farm system, guessing it would be Volstad or West. They'd be pretty crazy not to take that from my perspective because I really doubt another franchise would give them 2 pitchers of that quality, but hey, if they say no. We can look elsewhere. Offering them Nolasco-Upton straight up is a slap in the face as far as I'm concerned. Good post. That would be a very fair trade for both sides. Our future lineup would be sick and we would still have a solid rotation with plenty of young arms down the pipe. Tampa gets a legit young SP and hopefully a future #1 type starter in either Volstad or West. Still proably not enough for those morons. They proably still won't have developed any SP's by the time Kazmir and thier young postion players hit free agency. You have to give to get. Nolasco alone won't land anybody big time. Throw in a top prospect. Keep the big 4 intact.

Is very bad to take JoBu's rum. Very bad.

Hard to imagine anyone can really be unhappy with the production we got from the catcher position last year...especially relative to the salary paid. Doesn't mean we can't want an upgrade if the option presents itself ala a Dontrelle trade but we're better off at catcher than alot of other teams.

Let Them Play! Let Them Play!

I don't think everyone is grasping the fact that Alex Rios is an absolute badass. Hard to believe a top notch defensive RF with speed couldn't play CF. Throw in the fact that he has 3-4 cheap years makes him a home run. In other words he is the offensive equivalent of JJ,Olsen, or Anibel. And if you want to get a player of his caliber you have to trade a similarly valued pitcher. So I believe your either in one of two camps. #1- Either you believe pitching is too important to ever trade and you'd rather the Marlins try to get a CF on the cheap, if such a thing even exists anymore or #2 You believe that a great young offensive player is as valuable as a great young SP and you make the trade. Give me three top SP's and a balanced offense. I would hate to see JJ go. But I don't mind trading ANYONE if it makes our team better. And adding Alex Rios at the expense of one of our big 3 makes us better.

Pie wont go anywhere unless the Cubs get desperate for middle of the rotation pitching. Which is EXACTLY why he's going to get moved. Well that, and the fact that they like Murton and Soriano in LF and CF, respectively, and Pie is never going to be a RF. Did Soriano play CF this year? No, but the only reason he signed with the Cubs is they promised him the leadoff spot and that he'd only play 1 outfield position, which will be CF unless they find somebody to take Jacque Jones (which they won't) or if they are dumb enough to trade Matt Murton (which they aren't). There were I believe 136 million other reasons why he "choose" the Cubs. Next we're going to hear that he gave them the Charles Johnson hometown discount. The Cubs are morons and will regret this decision before the contract is 2 years over. Pie apparently took a somewhat significant step backwards. I'm not a minor league guru by any means but i'm under the strong impression that his offensive numbers regressed. Maybe a good time to try and rape the Cubs....again.

Put me in for drinking the Admin B. Kool-Aide. I would not even pretend that I had a knowledgeable opinion of any of the young guys we acquired. We gave up 3 pitchers who would definitely do nothing for us next year and acquired 3 pitchers who will.........hopefully help in the bullpen next year? I'm going to hope/assume that Admin liked what he saw and targeted these guys for a reason. We traded nothing of any real value and if we get any help for next years bullpen then great. Must say I was hoping to see a CF name when I saw the ticker involving a Marlins trade but hopefully that's on the way.

Not to mention the fact that the trade value of both players goes way up if they are signed to 5 or 6 year deals.

Ramirez and Uggla are more than likely to undergo considerable sophomore slumps. I don't see Ramirez getting on base as consistently so the leadoff spot could very well be compromised, so unless you expect to put Hermida or Willingham there, it would be in good interests of the Marlins to acquire a Dave Roberts type player who can actually get on base (as opposed to a Taveras who isn't good for anything offensively). I never asked for a power hitting CF, only a better hitter than Taveras (which is not asking much at all). You are expecting too much next season from unproven rookie players who are likely to slump. I think it's extremely likely that Uggla will have an off year and that alone could severely damage this offense that you claim needs absolutely no upgrading. I've been saying all along, don't overpay for a player who ONLY brings you defense. So, at one moment you are saying that the CF offense will be fine and the next you say there is no way to downgrade from the current situation. The only players next year I would count on to have good years are Cabrera and Willingham, meaning there are a lot of question marks and a few likely failures (Olivo, Amezaga, Ross). And look at it this way, almost any player the Marlins acquire as an offensive upgrade will also be a defensive upgrade. Other than pure speculation, why on earth would you be expecting a big dropoff from these two guys. I understand its smart to be cautious with our expectations going forward, to not expect another a big leap from the outstanding seasons these two both had. It's safer to expect them to more or less duplicate the seasons they had (which would be great). And I can't see any reason to think its any more likely that they will regress as it is they could even improve. There both very talented offensive players. My guess would be Uggla will be fairly consistent and Hanley has yet to reach his full potential which is hard to fathom considering his monstrous rookie season. In summation, "They are who we thought they were"

on PTI he said that he has one on his lower back. Might as well be a bullseye. *puts on glove* I like where your head's at

As per Willy...I really hope we settle our longterm CF option. But I wouldn't be bummed if we brought back everyone from last year and added a super legit defensive CF to bat 7/8 (without giving up anything of substance). Scoring runs wasn't exactly the problem last year. Thank you Yagshamesh!!

Why wouldn't you sign up Dontrele if your Nike? He's the total package of talent, attitude, and being a great person. We better make out like bandits if we ever trade him. I was bummed with trading Josh last year..but I wouldn't trade back Hanley and Anibel for him ever again. But Josh had serious issues (with maybe more upside) whereas Dontrelle seems like virtual money in the bank. He's an organizational wet dream, we had better come out like roses if we ever cut bait with him. I love that guy. As cliche guy would say, "He's everything right with sports today"

must be pretty sweet to have a slugging percentage .005 points higher than your .333 on-base percentage. This board loves guys with OBPs and SLG% right around that mark, but if a guy has a .400 OBP and .600 SLG% he sucks if his BA is low. I've only been semi-active since last year but I can't believe anyone really thinks this is an uneducated group. I would say at minimum 80% of the people posting have a very solid thinking/analysis of baseball. If anything I've only had the importance of slugging and on base% reinforced via this fairly educated group. There are obviously a few idiots with every discussion but they are more than offset by a solid core that could easily hang with Buster O, Joel Sherman, and the great Boog Sciambi ... (the three best sources for great baseball insight). Meaning simply that this group could/does run circles around most of the idiots who host talk radio, write newspaper columns, and appear on baseball tonight. This is a better group than sonsofsamhorn in my humble opinion. I only got into message boards et. al after all the marlins trades last year. But take it from someone who constantly reads tons of newspaper/internet/fan site boards/discussions, this is a very sharp group. As per Willy...I really hope we settle our longterm CF option. But I wouldn't be bummed if we brought back everyone from last year and added a super legit defensive CF to bat 7/8 (without giving up anything of substance). Scoring runs wasn't exactly the problem last year....i still want Chris Young, even though i've never seen him play. Ofcourse last year i had a serious man crush on jeremy reed.

As fun a season as 2003 and that team remains my all time favorite team in any sport. One day we will look back and realize how this year's team struck gold at practically every position. 4 stud rookie SP in one year? Unprecedented. Hanley- future all star. Uggla-one of the best rookie finds in the last 10 years. Jacobs- very solid start to what should be a solid career. Willingham-maybe not the upside of some but looks like an established hitter already. Olivio- another Uggla-type find off the scrap heap. To have the heat and this Marins team in one year? We are spoiled and I love it!

A quick thing about Fantasy: Any veteran will know that there has to be a certain minimum setup for a league to be credible. You really need to have 12 teams. This is very important. Even a 10 team league allows way to many good players to fall to the 3-5 players who really know what they are doing. Every league should have the basic format of 1QB, 3WR, 2RB, and 1 RB/WR (flex). Then DEF,K,TE . You can't have any semblance of respect with 2 WR leagues or 2 RB leagues with no flex player. It's just not an accurate gauge of skill to have less than 12 players. There's little room for error with a 12 team league. The only 10 team league I did last year I managed to win even though I was #1wasted and #2 took Kevin Jones and Daunte with my first two picks (i picked 10th). In a 12 team league i would have been dead. If not for this year, make your leagues tighten up for next year. It's so ridiculous to read stuff on the web with "I have LJ, Edgerrin, Rudi Johnson, and Westbrook-which 2 should I start?"