Out of the Past

Hutton will critique boneheaded plays depending on who the player is but where his homerism truly stands out is in his never ending whining about the umps. There's nothing wrong with honesty.

I've never spoken to Hutton, so I'll have to take your word for it. However, if he were that idiotic surely some of those comments would be reaching the airwaves... I've pretty much heard all of the TV color guys in the nation through MLB Extra Innings and he is certainly among the most intelligent sounding. I don't know about that. Where Hutton stands out is as the biggest homer there is.

Who do you think was the more clutch hitter Pudge or Edgar? Despite 'clutch' being a myth, I'd have to go with Pudge. Edgar is remembered as 'clutch' for one hit, Pudge carried the team to the world series by coming up big again and again. That season Renteria had several game winning hits. I'm pretty certain that in '97 he had more game winning hits in the 9th inning or later than any other player. I don't know how you can just blow that off as if it doesn't matter.

Yes, the team has looked good. I think we need to give Olivo Friday off, that way he gets extra rest. He's really been struggling at the plate. The Marlins would be closer to the Mets if they didn't lose all those games due to rookie mistakes. Julio cost us about three games, Pinto has cost us about three games, Errors have cost us two or three games. Were 7.0 behind the Mets....do the math. No excuses though, other teams have blown saves and errors also. (To our credit though most of those teams arent near .500) On top of all that the umps costs us about six games, bad luck costs us abpout three more games, the Nats and the Braves should have forfeited the rain games so that's two more games and the games where Rembrandt didn't pitch well costs us a couple of more games so in reality we should be aboput 45-10.. that's good, I think.

I didn't read all of Sheff's quotes. I only read what was posted here (copied below). I think that by being able to control Latin players better than black players I think maybe he means that Latin players are more apt to follow directions, orders, insstructions, etc. than black players because blacks don't like anyone telling them what to do and if that's what he meant then he was actually ripping blacks, not Latins. "I called it years ago. What I called is that you're going to see more black faces, but there ain't no English going to be coming out. ? [it's about] being able to tell [Latin players] what to do -- being able to control them," he told the magazine. "Where I'm from, you can't control us. You might get a guy to do it that way for a while because he wants to benefit, but in the end, he is going to go back to being who he is. And that's a person that you're going to talk to with respect, you're going to talk to like a man. "These are the things my race demands. So, if you're equally good as this Latin player, guess who's going to get sent home? I know a lot of players that are home now can outplay a lot of these guys."

To make the playoffs we'll have to win the WC because we're not catching the Mets. I wouldn't worry too much about the Braves and Phillies. I think the WC will probably be one of the NL west teams. The Phillies willl win 85 or so games and the Braves will have to score a ton to win and Chipper will be out several weeks and that's a death blow to that team.

Fredo is a versatile bench player. Cody can bash off the bench and Boone is actually playing better than the injured starter he replaced and Wood has been clutch in his few chances.

Oby has done a great job. He is what he is. Why we all can't be happy that we've got a solid contribution from someone who we didnt expect it from at all is beyond me Thats fine. We can be happy with what he's done, but to say he deserves a rotation spot over Scott Olsen is ridiculous. If Olsen gets pounded today I would not be surprised to see JJ take his spot once he's ready around the 18th of this month. I say that because he's gotten pounded his last two starts and his next start will be vs the Indians and I don't think that's a good match-up for him so by the time JJ comes back Olsen could have four poundings in a row and an ERA around 6.00.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...mplate=printart Latinos back Sheffield Guillen is the most vocal, agreeing with his teammate's statements in recent magazine article. Tom Gage / The Detroit News ARLINGTON, Texas -- Did the Latin players on the Tigers rise up against Gary Sheffield on Tuesday for saying what he said about them? Hardly. Carlos Guillen agreed with him -- said he was telling the truth. Pudge Rodriguez went over and hugged him, showing there's not even a hint of a problem. "Let the poor guy alone," Rodriguez said, kidding with the media. "Don't make me be his bodyguard." If Sheffield upset any Latin players with his comments in GQ about how they are more easily controlled than black players, and how they're more easily told what to do, it wasn't visible in the Tigers' clubhouse. "He's right," Guillen said. "I agree with him, big time. For example, me. They (meaning Major League Baseball) warned me for wearing my back pocket out. They fined Magglio (Ordonez) $1,000 for wearing his pocket out. "But you see a lot of guys wearing a pocket out. If you're going to have a rule, have it for everybody. And if you fine Magglio, why not fine everybody?" That's just a modern example to Guillen, however. The control starts when Latin players are at their youngest and most vulnerable. The control starts when they sign. "Latin players, if they get released, go back to their country with nothing," Guillen said. "Where are you going to work if you don't have baseball? You lose everything. You lose your life. You're done. "I've known a lot of players like that. They're doing nothing. They don't have good jobs. "(American players) are already here. They just go home. But I also agree because how many Japanese players are there? For each one there is an interpreter and someone to give them a massage. "How many Latin players are there? Thirty percent? But how many interpreters? You see any (masseurs) for Dominicans? No, you just have to play baseball. "They have control over us. Easy. I'm happy to say that." When asked if he disagreed with anything Sheffield said, Guillen said, "No." "It's the truth. When I was in the Gulf Coast League, I hurt my elbow in the Gulf Coast League in extended spring training (with the Astros). I was in pain and had to stop playing because I couldn't throw. "They called me and said, 'If you don't play tomorrow, you go home.' So I played DH the next day. That's control. I don't know if you get fined for saying that, but maybe (in his 10th major league season) I can talk a little bit now." Was he scared he'd be sent home? "Of course," Guillen said. "I was 18. I'm not saying all Latin players are scared like that, but a lot are." When asked if he was surprised at the controversy over his comments in GQ, Sheffield said he was. Of Latin players, he said: "I thought I was paying them a bigger compliment than anything. "There wasn't anything derogatory toward Latins or anybody else. I've been around Latin players for 20 years and have gotten along with every one of them. I love Latins just as well as I love blacks, just as well as I love whites. It doesn't matter to me. "So where is the controversy? It's just the spin being put on it. "I don't remember the article quote for quote, but they asked me a question, why there were so many Latin players as opposed to blacks. As I've said before, this is a baseball issue. I was just telling it like it is. "They have more to lose than we do. You can send them back to the island, but we're already here. "You have a lot of people trying to do things about it," Sheffield said about getting young African-Americans involved in baseball. "But is it working? No. I see the same old depressing stuff." Sheffield believes the message doesn't get through, however, because of the messenger. "Because it's me," he said. "But people might as well get used to it because it's not going to stop. I'm not going to stop. What I see I'm going to talk about. If anybody can show me where I'm wrong, then show me. But nobody has. "I stay on the issue." And the issue is? "You can't find another Dwight Gooden. You can't find another Gary Sheffield?" Sheffield said. "We're right here -- and that's all I'm saying. If you haven't been in that environment (they came from), you don't know what it's like to get out of it."

This is our record with Fredo or Reggie leading-off and Hanley hitting 3rd: 8-1 -vs- bad teams (Pirates, DRays and Cubs) 2-1 -vs- mediocre teams (Phillies) 2-7 -vs- good teams (Mets, Brewers and Braves) That's all.

I didn't watch so maybe I'm missing something. I guess it rained and after the rain delay there was a problem with the mound. The grounds crew fixed the problem. Why would the Braves forfeit? What am I missing?

We did make plenty of moves that have worked out great so far. See:the bullpen(Lindstrom,Owens and Gregg). I would add Boone. I hated the move but it has worked out great so far.

The roof adds $100m to the cost. Yeah land in the SF Bay Area is more expensive, but is it really that much more than downtown Miami (I trust that Marlins2003 and other insiders know the answer to that one better than I do)? I think that $490m is optimistic, and the people at the negotiating table know it. That's why they are quibbling over $30m, because the reality is that there is a fair to good likelihood that the stadium will go over budget and someone (ownership according to the most recent published reports, which I still find hard to believe) will get stuck with the bill. What all of you seem to forget is that the $490M price tag for the stadium down here DOES NOT INCLUDE THE REAL ESTATE/LAND PURCHASE PRICE/VALUE OF LAND. That is because they would be using property that already belongs to the City of Miami or Miami-Dade County. If we were talking about private land or land that needed to be condemned, then the price tag would skyrocket and probably, then, you could compare the prices of the stadium here with the stadium in Fremont equally. Until then, the Fremont price tag probably includes land, while the Marlins price tag does not. I'm think Cisco owned the land for the A's stadium.

I expect DTrain's ERA to improve towards his career average. I expect Olsen to continue to pitch poorly because I'm not impressed by pitchers who have poor command and who are unable to compensate for the poor command by either overpowering or fooling hitters. Most of the fab five are nowhere to be found in BA's top 50 or 100 prospects which leads me to believe that they are overhyped (shocking!) and even if the hype is true I don't think any of them are expected to reach this level in '08 and this team's window ends in '08. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/featu...223top100c.html Yeah, they are/were on the Top 100. Olsen, Sanchez, Johnson, Volstad and get this... Yusmerio Petit were all on the BA Top 100 in 06' In fact Olsen was higher than any of them. The Marlins won't do anything with Dontrelle this year, I don't think. But, I don't think he will be playing with us next year if we could get a guy like Cameron Maybin, Adam Jones, or Jeff Clement, along with some good pitching. I was talking about the current batch of prospects. Below is the link to BA's top 100 list published in February '07. There's only 3 Marlins in the top 100 and only 1 in the top 76. I don't think the BA list is the bible or anythign like that but it does carry some weight as it's based on the opinion of experts who give their unbiased opinion while someone from the organization saying how these 5 guys are the greatest arms they've ever seen is nothing but hot air, in my opinion. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...res/263445.html

Player A: 65-43 record in 140 games, 3.55 ERA and a 1.32 WHIP. 665 K's in 899.2 innings. Player B: 52-48 record in 142 games, 3.29 ERA and a 1.26 WHIP. 761 K's in 937.2 innings. Who's the better pitcher? I'm going with B and that is Brandon Webb since he's come to the major leagues. Player A is Dontrelle Willis. And in that comparison, age is overlooked. If it's who you'd rather have this year and next, it's Webb. If it's over the next 7, it's Dontrelle. I love DTrain but I think Webb is better and it's not that close. Webb has the better ERA pitching in a hitter's park while DTrain pitches in a pitcher's park. Webb is also very consistent from year-to-year while DTrain is not. Webb is 27 or 28 so he's not an old man. I don't think his age is a factor.

Wasn't there one of our members who proclaimed Hermida to be poop on offense and defense earlier today? I said he's poop on D and I still say it. Do you think he's a good glove?

What's the over / under on how many times they mention 4 games in 42 hours? I say 183 times... sick of it already.

Why not trade him to a team in the NL if they are willling to overpay? Dontrelle hasn't been dominating to any extent since 2005. While it is apparent that he still has value to other MLB teams, trading him before this year's deadline puts the Marlins in a greater position to win in 2008 than keeping him would. You don't trade him because trading him weakens the '07 and '08 Marlins and this team's window is '07 and '08. I don't understand why so many people insist in trading starting pitching away when starting pitching is our weakness. His presence in the clubhouse would be missed, not his performance on the field. For that reason I think he should be traded if the right package should be offered. That could potentially make the team stronger for a run in 2008. I don't see how you can really say starting pitching is the weakness when the Marlins spent the entire offseason after 2005 acquiring it. Just because there are injuries and some inconsistencies that need to be worked out doesn't mean the stuff isn't there. Olsen, Sanchez, and Johnson to a slightly lesser extent all have decent stuff. Dontrelle on the other hand appears to be more relient on his unconventional delivery than anything and hitters are beginning to figure him out. Defense at every single position on the field is a weakness. Catcher is a weakness. Centerfield is a weakness. Not starting pitching. I should have said starting pitching is the biggest weakness. C and CF are weaknesses but overall we have one of the top hitting teams in the league and although the defense is terrible that will continue to be the case as long as Uggla, Hanley, Cabrera, Hammer, Jacobs and Hermida are playing. Regarding the rotation, Mitre and Kim are the only ones that have pitched well. The others have stunk or are injured. My concern with Mitre and Kim is that their checkered past makes it questionable that they'll maintain their current level. My guess is that Mitre and Kim will decline, DTrain will improve and Wes and Olsen will continue pitching like crap. JJ, Nolasco and Anibal are injured. I don't know how anyonwe thinks this is a strong rotation (based on performance, not hype) and removing DTrain who is the only one with a strong track record will only make things that much worse. Again, just because they have had injuries this season does not mean they will perform to their potential at any point during this season or next. There is no doubt that their stuff is still there but is being held back by inconsistencies and those very injuries. On top of this, there are a number of arms being cultivated in the minors who are not yet ML ready. To say starting pitching is this organization's weakness is a very shortsighted assessment. Especially since only a handful of players are carrying the offensive weight of the club. On what grounds do you have to say "Dontrelle will improve" and "Olsen will continue to pitch like crap?" That is leaving me perplexed and your comment that Dontrelle's MLB tenure has a clean performance record and is not overhyped. Sure, Olsen, Johnson, and Sanchez have not had 22 win, 2.63 ERA seasons yey (albeit in 2005), but they have all been showing some signs of greatness in their limited stints at the MLB level. I expect DTrain's ERA to improve towards his career average. I expect Olsen to continue to pitch poorly because I'm not impressed by pitchers who have poor command and who are unable to compensate for the poor command by either overpowering or fooling hitters. Most of the fab five are nowhere to be found in BA's top 50 or 100 prospects which leads me to believe that they are overhyped (shocking!) and even if the hype is true I don't think any of them are expected to reach this level in '08 and this team's window ends in '08.

I am surprised no one mentioned anything when I said Hermida flat out SUCKS right now. Ok I did not use those same words. But that is what I meant. Is everyone in agreement here? His D sucks but it's too early to tell on his O.

Why not trade him to a team in the NL if they are willling to overpay? Dontrelle hasn't been dominating to any extent since 2005. While it is apparent that he still has value to other MLB teams, trading him before this year's deadline puts the Marlins in a greater position to win in 2008 than keeping him would. You don't trade him because trading him weakens the '07 and '08 Marlins and this team's window is '07 and '08. I don't understand why so many people insist in trading starting pitching away when starting pitching is our weakness. His presence in the clubhouse would be missed, not his performance on the field. For that reason I think he should be traded if the right package should be offered. That could potentially make the team stronger for a run in 2008. I don't see how you can really say starting pitching is the weakness when the Marlins spent the entire offseason after 2005 acquiring it. Just because there are injuries and some inconsistencies that need to be worked out doesn't mean the stuff isn't there. Olsen, Sanchez, and Johnson to a slightly lesser extent all have decent stuff. Dontrelle on the other hand appears to be more relient on his unconventional delivery than anything and hitters are beginning to figure him out. Defense at every single position on the field is a weakness. Catcher is a weakness. Centerfield is a weakness. Not starting pitching. I should have said starting pitching is the biggest weakness. C and CF are weaknesses but overall we have one of the top hitting teams in the league and although the defense is terrible that will continue to be the case as long as Uggla, Hanley, Cabrera, Hammer, Jacobs and Hermida are playing. Regarding the rotation, Mitre and Kim are the only ones that have pitched well. The others have stunk or are injured. My concern with Mitre and Kim is that their checkered past makes it questionable that they'll maintain their current level. My guess is that Mitre and Kim will decline, DTrain will improve and Wes and Olsen will continue pitching like crap. JJ, Nolasco and Anibal are injured. I don't know how anyonwe thinks this is a strong rotation (based on performance, not hype) and removing DTrain who is the only one with a strong track record will only make things that much worse.

Why not trade him to a team in the NL if they are willling to overpay? Dontrelle hasn't been dominating to any extent since 2005. While it is apparent that he still has value to other MLB teams, trading him before this year's deadline puts the Marlins in a greater position to win in 2008 than keeping him would. You don't trade him because trading him weakens the '07 and '08 Marlins and this team's window is '07 and '08. I don't understand why so many people insist in trading starting pitching away when starting pitching is our weakness.

I sure wouldn't be moving Kim out of the rotation for anyone short of the rocket. You don't take away a spot from Kim, who has given us excellent starts in 3 out of 4 performances, for someone like Nolasco, who probably won't ever amount to anything as a starter anyway. As far as I am concerned, JJ gets Obermeller's spot, and guys like Anibal and Nolasco better hope for someone else to go down before they get the starting nod. I agree on Kim but I think it's too early to decide whose spot JJ gets. It's between Obermuller and Olsen.

Who came up with the "walk-off home run" term and what did he mean by it?

The problem with our young pitchers is that none of them really have elite level talent and perhaps their true colors are showing now. It worries me that this organization has valued pitching so much yet we haven't obtained many pitchers with absolutely sick stuff. None of the sophomores have great stuff. I would be surprised if any of them end up as top of the rotation guys.

I know there are people who don't want to admit it, but how much of this has to do with not having a fire-breathing Girardi on his back, but rather a weak-willed Fredo? I don't think Fredi's laissez-faire attitude over the temper tantrums are a good thing.