March 13, 200818 yr OK, it's close enough to the start of the season :notworthy to get serious about what our starting pitching looks like. I really haven't been following all the details and medical reports closely, so use this as just a starting point to discuss where we are. As I see it: 1. Miller......huge potential, but limited experience. Does he have a history of throwing lots of innings successfully. Certainly not ready to be #1, but we have to hope he's ready and won't be hurt by being thrown the wolves by being a #1. Maybe it will turn out good for him, but I can't recall any other pitcher anywhere rushed into a #1 this early. . 2. Hendrickson.....journeyman, average at best . . 3. Nolasco....at least he's not hurt, or is he? . . 4. Gaby...also not hurt . . Others... Volstaad, Hurk, Olsen?, Mitre?, Sanchez?, JJ(out for season, I think). . .
March 13, 200818 yr Miller Hendrickson Nolasco Volstad/Gaby Until Olsen returns. Looks realistic at this moment. Volstad's chances are getting better.
March 13, 200818 yr Miller Hendrickson Nolasco Volstad/Gaby Until Olsen returns. Looks realistic at this moment. Volstad's chances are getting better. It's about time.
March 13, 200818 yr Author Is Sanchez out for the season? Also, what can we REASONABLY expect from the starters. I think in wins: Miller 10-14 Hendrickson 7-9 Nolasco 7-9 Volstaad/Gaby/Hurk 15 total Olsen ? Mitre ?
March 14, 200818 yr I don't think Gaby or Volstad will make the team. I think Hurk and Waechter are better bets. Miller Hendrickson Olsen Nolasco VandenHurk
March 14, 200818 yr I thought it was pretty smart of Fredi to get three consecutive innings for Waechter.
March 14, 200818 yr I think Miller should be sent down to the minors for more seasoning. Volstad has earned a spot by throwing strikes, and so far Miller is the only with control issues. I think that until Olsen returns it should be: Hendrickson, Nolasco(if olsen is healthy he'll be in the pen til a 5th starter is needed), Volstad, & Gaby(unless olsen is back). VandenHurk has the same control issues as Miller so both should get more seasoning.
March 14, 200818 yr Author Well, it's looking now like Hendrickson will be the opening day pitcher. And the point is noted on the other thread that Willis will be sorely missed this year. If he was a needless throw-in to the Cabs deal, which is a 50/50 possibility, that Loria salary dump will be hurting and stretching our present and future pitching situation.
March 14, 200818 yr Well, it's looking now like Hendrickson will be the opening day pitcher. And the point is noted on the other thread that Willis will be sorely missed this year. If he was a needless throw-in to the Cabs deal, which is a 50/50 possibility, that Loria salary dump will be hurting and stretching our present and future pitching situation. Why don't we see what kind of year Willis has before we bemoan his loss. As for being a needless throw-in, we weren't getting Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and four other players for Cabrera by himself, heck the Angels chafed at giving up three players for Miggy nevermind four or in this case six, so you have say some of the players we got back were in exchange for Willis. I can't get inside Beinfest and company's collective heads to exactly figure out what players came for who but I've always looked at it this way: Maybin, Miller and Rabelo for Cabrera, and de la Cruz, Badenhop (who I think could be a real sleeper in this trade) and Trahern for Willis. If you subscribe to anything close to that split I think we got value for Willis considering his performance the last two seasons and his *escalating* salary *as he approaches free agency*. The thing about trolls is they have no obligation to be truthful or objective, they say whatever they want regardless of the facts and I think MVP, as long as I've known you, I've always thought you knew better than to listen to anything they say. * * = edit
March 14, 200818 yr Author Well, it's looking now like Hendrickson will be the opening day pitcher. And the point is noted on the other thread that Willis will be sorely missed this year. If he was a needless throw-in to the Cabs deal, which is a 50/50 possibility, that Loria salary dump will be hurting and stretching our present and future pitching situation. Why don't we see what kind of year Willis has before we bemoan his loss. As for being a needless throw-in, we weren't getting Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and four other players for Cabrera by himself, heck the Angels chafed at giving up three players for Miggy nevermind four or in this case six, so you have say some of the players we got back were in exchange for Willis. I can't get inside Beinfest and company's collective heads to exactly figure out what players came for who but I've always looked at it this way: Maybin, Miller and Rabelo for Cabrera, and de la Cruz, Badenhop (who I think could be a real sleeper in this trade) and Trahern for Willis. If you subscribe to anything close to that split I think we got value for Willis considering his performance the last two seasons and his *escalating* salary *as he approaches free agency*. The thing about trolls is they have no obligation to be truthful or objective, they say whatever they want regardless of the facts and I think MVP, as long as I've known you, I've always thought you knew better than to listen to anything they say. * * = edit Let's just leave the troll out of this. What I said I believe myself. I think Willis will be missed even if he has a year like he had last year. We need the innings eater to protect the young arms. Otherwise we perpetuate this cycle of illness. Just taking you at your thought...I would disagree. Willis was worth more than de la cruz, badenhop, and trahern. We don't know what these players will do, but we do know that Willis would have at least offered some innings, and most likely would have improved. Any improvement is really irrelevant though in terms of wins. What's the difference if we win 60 or 65 games. The value lies in the protection he would have offered to the starters and the bullpen.
March 14, 200818 yr 1.Olsen 2.Hendrickson 3.Nolasco 4.Miller 5.Vanden Hurk id be pretty happy with that...maybe flip flop hendrickson with miller or vandy...but those 5 work for me
March 14, 200818 yr Let's just leave the troll out of this. What I said I believe myself. I think Willis will be missed even if he has a year like he had last year. We need the innings eater to protect the young arms. Otherwise we perpetuate this cycle of illness. Just taking you at your thought...I would disagree. Willis was worth more than de la cruz, badenhop, and trahern. We don't know what these players will do, but we do know that Willis would have at least offered some innings, and most likely would have improved. Any improvement is really irrelevant though in terms of wins. What's the difference if we win 60 or 65 games. The value lies in the protection he would have offered to the starters and the bullpen. Fair enough. I may choke on Lou's idea of bringing in Horacio Ramirez but he has been an innings eater in the past and if and when he dons a Marlins uniform he's my guy. And I want to protect young arms as much if not more than the next guy (if you read what I said I'd do if I was the MLB rulemaker) but at the same time Volstad for example, if he continues to perform as he has this spring, how does the organization look him in the eyes and say "Best job we saw all spring kid. Enjoy Albuquerque." BTW, maybe it will help a little that Badenhop just threw four scoreless innings against the Mets in the face of an 8-0 Mets lead, threw 23 consecutive strikes (according to Gameday) and now has thrown 10 scoreless innings in a row this spring. Plus he's the only guy in camp with a complete game last season. So maybe there's some value in that part of the trade for you to reconsider. So yeah, I'm down with your Willis thoughts, want to save the kids arms but maybe not so much. We really aren't that far apart.
March 15, 200818 yr well Nolasco got shelled today... not a good sign. It's the Mets....what else is new?
March 21, 200818 yr Our starting rotation appears set! Miller Nolasco Olsen Vanden Hurk Hendrickson Volsted is fighting for Vanden Hurk's spot in the rotation. Olsen appears healthy
March 21, 200818 yr I'd give Vandy a shot ahead of Nolasco. At least Hurk has actual stuff. Have you ever seen Nolasco pitch? I'd really like to see Burke Badenhop get a real shot. Probably tied for the best performance this spring. Waechter is another guy I may like to see get a shot. Could potentially perform, and can eat some innings while some of the just-about-MLB-ready guys work in double-A.
March 21, 200818 yr Why are so many people so up on putting Miller in the front of the rotation? He really hasn't shown me anything to say he is ready for that yet. Even Hendrickson has shown me more than him.
March 21, 200818 yr 1) Hendrickson - I don't really believe in his spring numbers, but he is our healthiest veteran pitcher. 2) Nolasco 3) Volstad 4) Olsen - Per Freddi's announcement 5) Badenhop Miller and Vanden Hurk to minors until they straighten out their command. I think both have great futures, but only if they can learn not to keep there stuff in the Strike Zone. Hopefully (fingers crossed) at year end: Olsen, Volstad, Miller, Vanden Hurk, Badenhop (or Nolasco) Hendrickson to bullpen edit: I forgot about Anibal as I was going through this. So instead: Olsen, Sanchez, Miller, Volstad, Vanden Hurk
March 21, 200818 yr I'd much rather have Miller in the rotation with Nolasco hittin' the pen. I'd love to see a... Hendrickson Volstad Miller Olsen Badenhop Don't kill me, but I'd love to see what Volstad and Badenhop can both do to start the season. Their springs have been phenominal. If not this, send Volstud back to Double-A for two months with Vandy in the rotation. Badenhop is a little farther ahead than him.
March 21, 200818 yr I really cant understand why people are even talking about sending Miller down. We need him! We dont have one of the better rotations in the league and weve got to stay realistic on that one , Miller hasnt got much experience , but he has potential and is tough to beat on his good days. So no doubt about having him in the rotation. Also would like to see Hurk there , in my oppinion he was able to improve the control of his fast and curveball , so more outs and less pitches...hopefully..
March 21, 200818 yr Okay Wild, this is the second time in as many threads that you've espoused this "Nolasco to the pen" thing. Exactly who are you going to replace with Nolasco? Not Gregg, Lindstrom, Pinto or Tankersley for obvious reasons, and Miller and Gardner they're out of options as is I believe, according to Nny, Logan Kensing. So unless you trade someone first and break up what has been the most dependable part of the team you create another roster problem unless you're trading an established and successful major league reliever for a minor league prospect without knowing if Nolasco can even pitch in relief. That's not a risk I'd be willing to take. Can he even do it out of the pen being called on two or three nights in a row or not pitching for four or five days at a time or being able to warm up at a moment's notice, etc.? The life of a reliever is much more unpredictable and requires not only a different mindset but a different training regimen than a starter. Too many unanswered questions for a guy who is coming back from injury and maybe 85-90% back. If the Marlins wanted Nolasco to pitch in relief this is a decision that should have been made at the beginning of spring training. It's too late now. If he's the fifth starter and works out of the pen for a week or so that is a whole lot different than what your posts say you want to do, and at least for now I don't see the Marlins either not using him as a starting pitcher or cutting a current reliever to make room for him in the pen.
March 21, 200818 yr and Miller and Gardner they're out of options as is I believe, according to Nny, Logan Kensing. just want to clarrify I'm not 100% sure on those haha. I'm going to look into it deeper later.
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