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When does it make sense to think about adding a veteran arm?


Lane1974
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I know it's early in the season but the team has shown they have the capability to be competitive - offensively and the bullpen both have been pleasant surprises. However the bullpen won't be able to keep it up game after game with the starters letting them down. Outside of Olsen and partially Hendrickson, the rotation has been a mess. I think the front office owes it to the guys to stabilize the rotation before the pitching spirals downward totally.

 

I don't know who'd be available, probably no one this early in the season

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I don't know who'd be available, probably no one this early in the season

This.

 

And say it with me - Anibal, Volstad, Mitre, Owens, and G. Hernandez in July. They can slum innings with the Waecthers and Barones if they need too for the time being. Gotta give Nolasco and Badenhop another shot or two each before making another move.

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Jon Lieber is with the Cubs.

He has been a guy who has been known to give teams innings, and he's won his share of games, in his career. He's actually been a lot better than Mark Hendrickson (who I still have a hard time trusting, looking at his track record).

 

Lieber is currently not even in the Cubs rotation (he pitches in long/middle relief).

 

He'd be a cheap option, and we won't have to give much for him right now, I think.

It's an option.

 

There aren't too many guys out there, though.

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The Marlins did add a veteran arm. Waechter. If he doesn't get into today's game (he last pitched on the 18th) I'm guessing he gets a spot start here in the next week and is being held out purposely (of course he'll probably pitch today and there goes that theory, at least for a while). And I suspect another guy to follow shortly. You look at the gang left sitting on the outside - Wells, Kim (even though I unabashedly love watching Kim pitch), the others - if you're looking for six innings of three-four run pitching a Waetcher or a couple of other guys can probably give you more consistency than what is happening now and they are already in the organization where the front office is getting daily updates on their performance. The front office didn't pull Waetcher's name out of a hat, Dean Treanor told them he was the guy.

 

Maybin's a good example of the value of learning at the minor league level, out of the limelight and the pressure. There will be a day when the Fish cannot keep him in the minors any longer but as long as he's striking out just short of twice a game, he doesn't need the embarrassment and frustration of striking out three times a game in the bigs. Some of his game is already there, he just needs to round it out. I think Miller is the logical choice to go down (although he has flashes showing he can pitch at this level, often though too late in his start to make it contributory), he has the ceiling, he's young,unless he turns it around in the next couple of starts, he should join Cameron in AA. The team has too much invested in him not to. Badenhop is more expendable than Miller. Watching him pitch compared to this spring I wouldn't be surprised to hear Fredi or Wiley opine he's throwing too hard. All that movement that got him noticed this spring is gone and that usually comes from over-throwing. He's pitching in a big park, use it to his advantage.

 

And one comment about moving Nolasco to the pen. No thank you. And I'm not being disparaging. Until he gets straightened out he's not going to perform any better there than where he is right now and the situations he comes into will not be any easier than starting so long as the team is winning.

 

Guys who aren't ready are guys who aren't ready. The team in spite of them has remained competitive and the players making that happen (see Hanley's comments on winning) deserve to have guys going out there every five days who can carry their weight. This on the job training isn't working. I don't know Nolasco's option situation, carrying three failing (not failures) starting pitchers is too much for any team to shoulder. Pick one (I don't pretend to know which) and bring up another journeyman vet from the minors who at least is capable of keeping a high-scoring team in a game. I think most agree on not rushing kid pitchers, perhaps for different reasons, but "if" you could get five or six quality/decent starts out of a Waetcher and not have the bullpen pitching in the third inning, that can be a winning formula at least for now.

 

(Hanley's comments on winning: "I just want to win, man," said Ramirez, who has yet to experience a winning season in South Florida. The key? "The starting pitching," Ramirez said. "We need more innings from them.")

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David Wells' agent called the Marlins, but Florida has shown no interest in any of the veteran free agent starting pitchers (Wells, Jeff Weaver, Byung-Hyun Kim). If the Marlins make a rotation change, they have options: Ex-Rays starter Doug Waechter (who's now in Florida's bullpen), plus several top Double A prospects are pitching well (including Chris Volstad).

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/616/story/502707.html

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David Wells' agent called the Marlins, but Florida has shown no interest in any of the veteran free agent starting pitchers (Wells, Jeff Weaver, Byung-Hyun Kim). If the Marlins make a rotation change, they have options: Ex-Rays starter Doug Waechter (who's now in Florida's bullpen), plus several top Double A prospects are pitching well (including Chris Volstad).

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/616/story/502707.html

COME ON! I'LL TAKE DAVID WELLS! DAMN IT!

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David Wells' agent called the Marlins, but Florida has shown no interest in any of the veteran free agent starting pitchers (Wells, Jeff Weaver, Byung-Hyun Kim). If the Marlins make a rotation change, they have options: Ex-Rays starter Doug Waechter (who's now in Florida's bullpen), plus several top Double A prospects are pitching well (including Chris Volstad).

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/616/story/502707.html

This is stunning if true because David Wells has made 'west coast only" demands in the past and only wanted to play for contenders. Weaver signed with Milwaukee. Volstad will be up the second he can't get super two (approx mid June).

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thats disingenuous by the front office then, because if they could add a legit arm (I know a big if), maybe it enables them to still be competing in July. At this rate, the bullpen can't compensate forever for starters who are out of the game in the 4th or 5th inning and its unfair to the offense to have 50% of the games with 3, 4, 5 run deficits early on.

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How is it disingenuous? When they traded Cabrera in the offseason for prospects, it should have sent a signal to everyone. We don't know for a fact that adding a veteran arm is going to push this team over the edge. Frankly, I don't think any of the guys mentioned have that capability.

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disingenuous because they always spin it to the public that they expect to be competitive every year, and that they will spend $ if they see a reason to, yadda yadda

 

so by sending out the pitchers who are failing, and are being set up to fail (by not being ready to play in the major leagues they have to learn on the fly at this level), it is unfair to the position players and bullpen who are keeping the team afloat. I am not asking for Johan Santana or Erik Badard. Just one pitcher who can pitch in the big leagues and give them a shot when they go out there.

 

So when in two weeks, or four weeks or six weeks from now when the bullpen starts to implode because of overuse now, the team falls out of contention by July and there IS no reason to make a move. I am suggesting maybe by doing a preventative maneuver now it sets up for a good summer.

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Why do you people even think about questioning Admin BEINFEST ......I think he has proven to us that the man knows what he is doing...... Just stop questioning the man, hes a GENIUS :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

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Why do you people even think about questioning Admin BEINFEST ......I think he has proven to us that the man knows what he is doing...... Just stop questioning the man, hes a GENIUS :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

 

therefore, it makes sense to add a veteran arm when Admin and his other genius friends (mikey hill, fleming, & jennings) in the front office decide it's time to.

 

do you think they're not aware that they could add a veteran arm at this late point in the season (obscene level of sarcasm)?

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I am a big fan of the front office, but you can't have it both ways -- either they misjudged how inept the back end of the rotation would be, or they assumed the rest of the team would equally be a disaster and it wouldn't matter. Now there is no one to get and it unfortunately could sour what could be a good season.

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I am a big fan of the front office, but you can't have it both ways -- either they misjudged how inept the back end of the rotation would be, or they assumed the rest of the team would equally be a disaster and it wouldn't matter. Now there is no one to get and it unfortunately could sour what could be a good season.

 

 

can we get through april at least. miller and badenhop have been garbage and you gotta hope they improve. miller at least gets through 5 now. if not, volstad and gaby will get the call. but it's not as if there's someone available for cheap thats gonna come in here and go 7 strong every start.

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Some of you seriously want David Wells? Don't you think if he had ANYTHING to offer a team, he'd be on someone's roster by now? The guy is 44 years old. At this point he's just a name. As for Weaver and Kim...no thanks. Did Weaver impress anyone with his ERAs of 5.76 and 6.20 in 2006 and 2007? Been there and done that with Kim. The front office is smart for passing up these retreads.

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I would sign kim today , he will cost nothing and he will give you some innings . he pitched alright for us last year .

 

 

 

Actually, it only seemed that way because the rest of the starting pitching last year, was awful. Kim was really nothing to brag about last year (except for his entertaining stunts / expressions on the field), and he has sucked his whole career, ever since imploding as a reliever in the World Series. He hasn't been picked up yet...if he was really all that serviceable, he'd be somewhere by now, imo.

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Personally I've been hoping for a David Wells signing for awhile now.

 

The guy is great at eating innings. He's essentially be D-train (except not as bad, boda-boom)

 

By this point I'd rather wait and see if Nolasco or Badenhop can stay in the rotation though.

 

if one of them show they can't, then call him up. By this point all we need out of a #5 guy is somebody who'll go atleast 6 inn a start

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The Marlins did add a veteran arm. Waechter. If he doesn't get into today's game (he last pitched on the 18th) I'm guessing he gets a spot start here in the next week and is being held out purposely (of course he'll probably pitch today and there goes that theory, at least for a while). And I suspect another guy to follow shortly. You look at the gang left sitting on the outside - Wells, Kim (even though I unabashedly love watching Kim pitch), the others - if you're looking for six innings of three-four run pitching a Waetcher or a couple of other guys can probably give you more consistency than what is happening now and they are already in the organization where the front office is getting daily updates on their performance. The front office didn't pull Waetcher's name out of a hat, Dean Treanor told them he was the guy.

 

Maybin's a good example of the value of learning at the minor league level, out of the limelight and the pressure. There will be a day when the Fish cannot keep him in the minors any longer but as long as he's striking out just short of twice a game, he doesn't need the embarrassment and frustration of striking out three times a game in the bigs. Some of his game is already there, he just needs to round it out. I think Miller is the logical choice to go down (although he has flashes showing he can pitch at this level, often though too late in his start to make it contributory), he has the ceiling, he's young,unless he turns it around in the next couple of starts, he should join Cameron in AA. The team has too much invested in him not to. Badenhop is more expendable than Miller. Watching him pitch compared to this spring I wouldn't be surprised to hear Fredi or Wiley opine he's throwing too hard. All that movement that got him noticed this spring is gone and that usually comes from over-throwing. He's pitching in a big park, use it to his advantage.

 

And one comment about moving Nolasco to the pen. No thank you. And I'm not being disparaging. Until he gets straightened out he's not going to perform any better there than where he is right now and the situations he comes into will not be any easier than starting so long as the team is winning.

 

Guys who aren't ready are guys who aren't ready. The team in spite of them has remained competitive and the players making that happen (see Hanley's comments on winning) deserve to have guys going out there every five days who can carry their weight. This on the job training isn't working. I don't know Nolasco's option situation, carrying three failing (not failures) starting pitchers is too much for any team to shoulder. Pick one (I don't pretend to know which) and bring up another journeyman vet from the minors who at least is capable of keeping a high-scoring team in a game. I think most agree on not rushing kid pitchers, perhaps for different reasons, but "if" you could get five or six quality/decent starts out of a Waetcher and not have the bullpen pitching in the third inning, that can be a winning formula at least for now.

 

(Hanley's comments on winning: "I just want to win, man," said Ramirez, who has yet to experience a winning season in South Florida. The key? "The starting pitching," Ramirez said. "We need more innings from them.")

 

How about giving Pinto a shot. I know it would weaken our bullpen, but it might actually help the pen if he can go six or seven innings every five days. Pinto was a starter in the minors.. Just a thought. Although I admit I love having Pinto in the pen to go along with Tank. Anyway, like I said, just a thought..

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How about giving Pinto a shot. I know it would weaken our bullpen, but it might actually help the pen if he can go six or seven innings every five days. Pinto was a starter in the minors.. Just a thought. Although I admit I love having Pinto in the pen to go along with Tank. Anyway, like I said, just a thought..

 

I know what you mean, but u just said it "it would weaken our bullpen" guy is throwing lights out right now in our already over used bullpen. we know he can gives us 2-3 innings easily which is why we need him there. we can also use him to match up against lefty's earlier in the game and use Tank for the later innings.

 

Pinto is more valuable in the bullpen right now then as a starter imo.

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