If Miller isin't ready we could do a few things.

 

Put Thompson if ready or Tucker temporarly in the rotation.

 

Use Badenhop few spot starts if the schedule calls for him

or

 

Do what we did last season use 4 starters for the first few weeks and its a better rotation in Nolasco, Johnson, Volstad and Sanchez rather then the Hendrickson, Vanden Hurk,Miller Olsen rotaion we started with last season.

 

Either way Miller shouldn't be gone for entirly to long maybe 1 or 2 weeks into the season at most.

 

 

That is why I love reading these boards. In my head, the sky is falling, than one of you guys puts it all in perspective. Love the four man rotation idea. Thanks! :thumbup

I believe, at some point, we have to try our younger guys out. We can't just keep them in the minors and try to sign people from the outside. Neither am I saying that anybody is insinuating that. But I thought that we have these kids in the minors so that, when the opportunity presents itself such as an injury, they come up and are given the chance to prove themselves.

 

Bringing Tucker, Badenhop or Thompson now doesn't seem like a big issue for me. I think they should be brought up and tried out. We have to have a little faith in these guys. How else will we ever know how they will perform at the Major League level?

 

We have them in the minors so that they can develop as players, and hopefully one day be ready to contribute to the MLB team.

 

It's not like the guys you mentioned are in their late 20's or 30's. Badenhop is 25, and the other 2 are younger. The FO believes they aren't quite ready for the minor leagues, and this is perfectly normal - not to mention the harm rushing pitchers to the big leagues can do.

 

Also who did we sign "from the outside"? Josh Johnson was drafted by the Marlins, and the other 4 projected starters were acquired via trade......

Lindstrom, Nunez, Pinto, DLC were all from trades....

Scott Proctor is the only guy I know of who we "signed"

 

Before I try to respond, I recommend you re-read my post and the parts I highlighted.

 

I read the post and responded. I am aware that you are not insinuating that. I was looking for clarification as to what seemed like a complaint about signing people from the outside as opposed to promoting from within. Maybe you are just advocating that (promoting youngsters) as a course of action, as opposed to complaining about/disagreeing with a perceived policy of signing guys. If that's the case, then I stand by the first part of my post.

 

And if you were trying to sound extremely patronizing and condescending, then you absolutely succeeded. If not, no big deal, but it certainly comes across that way.

 

 

OK. Let me back up. The intent of my post was to disagree w/ Dim0615 who seemingly doesn't believe that we have someone in our farm system that can truly succeed as our 5th starter. I believe we do have plenty of arms that can fill in until Miller comes back, i.e Badenhop, Tucker, or Thompson. I further state that I believe any one of these players should be provided w/ the opportunity to fill in and that we should not assume that any of them will not succeed as our 5th starter.

 

As for my statement about bringing people from the outside, which is where you chimed in and apparently misunderstood, let me clarify. Since my perception of what Dim0615 was that none of our players in our bullpen or farm system could "truly succeed as our 5th starter", I posed the only other option to filling that spot which clearly is to sign someone from the outside. I guess I should have added traded for someone, but I don't care to trade for pitching right now since what we truly need is a Catcher. But that is another conversation.

 

So let me stop there. From my understanding, those are the only two options we have. We either fill in from our pool of talent or we sign someone from the outside. That is it. I'm not saying we should go sign someone. But it is an option. What I am saying is that we stick to the program and give our guys a chance.

 

I'm assuming when you state "It's not like the guys you mentioned are in their late 20's or 30's. Badenhop is 25, and the other 2 are younger. The FO believes they aren't quite ready for the minor leagues, and this is perfectly normal - not to mention the harm rushing pitchers to the big leagues can do." you are not in agreement w/ having these guys pitch right now. That is ok. I respect that.

 

But I don't agree w/ you in that these guys shouldn't be given the chance since there are numerous examples of players that have succeeded to be 5th starters or better in this league at a young age: Lincecum (24), Hamels (25), Chamberlain (23), Liriano (25), etc. And these are guys that started at younger ages. I can go on. And the names I'm providing is just the tip of the iceburg since they are the top talent in the league. I can go back and name numerous other players that can fill A NUMBER 5 spot until Miller gets back. I can go back into the realms of MLB history and provide you w/ hundreds of examples of pitchers in their early to mid twenties that could fill in the fifth spot of our rotation until Miller returns.

 

My point is that not everyone has to be a superstar to temporarily fill Miller's place until he gets better. We have the talent to do that. We have to trust that we drafted good players and we have to trust to give them a chance.

 

I hope this explains my reasoning. Andif you got the impression that I was being condescending, I was not.

 

I understand. I'd still prefer to let Tucker prepare for a career in the bullpen, while Thompson gets more seasoning. I don't mind Badenhop at all. I guess I wasn't considering him as a guy in the minors because he was on the ML roster basically the entire time that he was healthy.

 

I didn't know you were referencing anyone else's comments - that probably confused me a bit, not sure.

 

As for the last part, I'm happy to give you the BOTD - that's why I phrased my post the way I did. Too often on here one poster tells another poster what he/she was [intending to] doing/thinking/feeling/etc.

Makes me kinda wish we invested into Pavano before he got snagged up. Hope Miller can be ready by ST.

First of all this is all SUPPOSITION by some unknown author, probably interns, who want you to believe they have a crystal ball, or they are on Lost Island (time-traveling, if you watched it tonight you get it) because they can see into the future.

 

The first three paragraphs are replete with disclaimers, mights, maybes, coulds, etc. If he's part of the pitching and conditioning gang in Jupiter he must be in reasonable shape or he wouldn't be there and I doubt the Marlins would want to push the guy if he wasn't.

 

Until you hear something sourced or from the front office don't be so quick to start looking for fifth starters when the guy might be fine, or at worst a couple weeks behind everyone else. Remember we have an extraordinarily long spring training this year because of the WBC (something clowns at Yahoo probably forgot). He's got a ton of time to come around if it's needed.

 

 

 

As for the snowballing posts - and feel free to ignore this - for the rest of us you don't have to roll these things downhill - just a sentence or two from the last post you're quoting is enough to keep the thought of the posts you're responding to in context.

Wow, that would really suck having to stick Ryan Tucker back into the rotation, when he will fit better in the bullpen, or having to call up Thompson when he may not be MLB ready. Hopefully Miller recovers in time for the regular season.

Badenhop can always step up.

 

 

Badenhop is still average from what we have seen. We really don't have a really trustworthy fifth starter after getting rid of Olsen (starting to regret trading him, even if he got bigger money), and Miller is needed to show that the Cabrera trade wasn't a failure, we also need Maybin to succeed so we don't look like idiots,.

 

You mean the trade that sent what may become MLBs youngest DH, AND one of the most overpaid AA or AAA pitcher for the crap thay gave us? Either you really hate the guys (all of them) we got in return, or you really over rate Miggy and DTrain.

 

"But Miggy hits home runs!!" Yeah. We really missed that.

 

Defense, speed, and pitching.

we have an unproven Miller who is injured currently as our 5th starter. Since he's injured obviously and may not be ready for spring training, we have enough depth to find an inning's eater in our bullpen or out of our farm system, but we don't have a guy who can truely succeed this upcoming year as the 5th starter (definition of succeed 10+ wins, low 4 ERA.)

 

 

What would be considered "succeed" for our 1-4 to you? Maybe we could save some $$$ and not have our bull pen travel with the team.

I believe, at some point, we have to try our younger guys out. We can't just keep them in the minors and try to sign people from the outside. Neither am I saying that anybody is insinuating that. But I thought that we have these kids in the minors so that, when the opportunity presents itself such as an injury, they come up and are given the chance to prove themselves.

 

Bringing Tucker, Badenhop or Thompson now doesn't seem like a big issue for me. I think they should be brought up and tried out. We have to have a little faith in these guys. How else will we ever know how they will perform at the Major League level?

 

 

And I don't see how the FO and coaches have done differently in the past. So basically I'm agreeing with you. With all the nicks and bruises that goes with a 162 game season we can count on seeing some of these guys, and/or others, to be here for a spot start or bull pen slot. Bet on it.

I believe, at some point, we have to try our younger guys out. We can't just keep them in the minors and try to sign people from the outside. Neither am I saying that anybody is insinuating that. But I thought that we have these kids in the minors so that, when the opportunity presents itself such as an injury, they come up and are given the chance to prove themselves.

 

Bringing Tucker, Badenhop or Thompson now doesn't seem like a big issue for me. I think they should be brought up and tried out. We have to have a little faith in these guys. How else will we ever know how they will perform at the Major League level?

 

We have them in the minors so that they can develop as players, and hopefully one day be ready to contribute to the MLB team.

 

It's not like the guys you mentioned are in their late 20's or 30's. Badenhop is 25, and the other 2 are younger. The FO believes they aren't quite ready for the minor leagues, and this is perfectly normal - not to mention the harm rushing pitchers to the big leagues can do.

 

Also who did we sign "from the outside"? Josh Johnson was drafted by the Marlins, and the other 4 projected starters were acquired via trade......

Lindstrom, Nunez, Pinto, DLC were all from trades....

Scott Proctor is the only guy I know of who we "signed"

 

Volstad. Just to name one. And we have shown in the past we have no problem bring AA guys up for a shot or two.

I believe, at some point, we have to try our younger guys out. We can't just keep them in the minors and try to sign people from the outside. Neither am I saying that anybody is insinuating that. But I thought that we have these kids in the minors so that, when the opportunity presents itself such as an injury, they come up and are given the chance to prove themselves.

 

Bringing Tucker, Badenhop or Thompson now doesn't seem like a big issue for me. I think they should be brought up and tried out. We have to have a little faith in these guys. How else will we ever know how they will perform at the Major League level?

 

We have them in the minors so that they can develop as players, and hopefully one day be ready to contribute to the MLB team.

 

It's not like the guys you mentioned are in their late 20's or 30's. Badenhop is 25, and the other 2 are younger. The FO believes they aren't quite ready for the minor leagues, and this is perfectly normal - not to mention the harm rushing pitchers to the big leagues can do.

 

Also who did we sign "from the outside"? Josh Johnson was drafted by the Marlins, and the other 4 projected starters were acquired via trade......

Lindstrom, Nunez, Pinto, DLC were all from trades....

Scott Proctor is the only guy I know of who we "signed"

 

Volstad. Just to name one. And we have shown in the past we have no problem bring AA guys up for a shot or two.

 

 

I don't know what you mean here - we drafted Volstad in 2005 (so I guess actually 2 projected starters were drafter while 3 were acquired via trade), while we signed only Proctor as a free agent. Basically everyone else with a shot to make the team right now was either acquired via trade or drafted (Rule 5 picks currently on the roster notwithstanding).

As far as bringing up guys while they're still young, of course we've been known to do that. I still think Badenhop, Kensing, or Vandenhurk should get the first cracks at starting if we need them.

I believe, at some point, we have to try our younger guys out. We can't just keep them in the minors and try to sign people from the outside. Neither am I saying that anybody is insinuating that. But I thought that we have these kids in the minors so that, when the opportunity presents itself such as an injury, they come up and are given the chance to prove themselves.

 

Bringing Tucker, Badenhop or Thompson now doesn't seem like a big issue for me. I think they should be brought up and tried out. We have to have a little faith in these guys. How else will we ever know how they will perform at the Major League level?

 

We have them in the minors so that they can develop as players, and hopefully one day be ready to contribute to the MLB team.

 

It's not like the guys you mentioned are in their late 20's or 30's. Badenhop is 25, and the other 2 are younger. The FO believes they aren't quite ready for the minor leagues, and this is perfectly normal - not to mention the harm rushing pitchers to the big leagues can do.

 

Also who did we sign "from the outside"? Josh Johnson was drafted by the Marlins, and the other 4 projected starters were acquired via trade......

Lindstrom, Nunez, Pinto, DLC were all from trades....

Scott Proctor is the only guy I know of who we "signed"

 

Volstad. Just to name one. And we have shown in the past we have no problem bring AA guys up for a shot or two.

 

 

I don't know what you mean here - we drafted Volstad in 2005 (so I guess actually 2 projected starters were drafter while 3 were acquired via trade), while we signed only Proctor as a free agent. Basically everyone else with a shot to make the team right now was either acquired via trade or drafted (Rule 5 picks currently on the roster notwithstanding).

As far as bringing up guys while they're still young, of course we've been known to do that. I still think Badenhop, Kensing, or Vandenhurk should get the first cracks at starting if we need them.

 

Kensing won't ever touch a mound in the first inning again. VandenHurk will get a chance but needs to show command before they send him out in a ML uni again. Badenhop will certainly get a good shot at it, probably more than anyone else because he's 25, he was a college pitcher, has been in the big leagues, and shown the most command out of any of our options. Tucker could be given a shot if he can throw strikes.

I believe, at some point, we have to try our younger guys out. We can't just keep them in the minors and try to sign people from the outside. Neither am I saying that anybody is insinuating that. But I thought that we have these kids in the minors so that, when the opportunity presents itself such as an injury, they come up and are given the chance to prove themselves.

 

Bringing Tucker, Badenhop or Thompson now doesn't seem like a big issue for me. I think they should be brought up and tried out. We have to have a little faith in these guys. How else will we ever know how they will perform at the Major League level?

 

We have them in the minors so that they can develop as players, and hopefully one day be ready to contribute to the MLB team.

 

It's not like the guys you mentioned are in their late 20's or 30's. Badenhop is 25, and the other 2 are younger. The FO believes they aren't quite ready for the minor leagues, and this is perfectly normal - not to mention the harm rushing pitchers to the big leagues can do.

 

Also who did we sign "from the outside"? Josh Johnson was drafted by the Marlins, and the other 4 projected starters were acquired via trade......

Lindstrom, Nunez, Pinto, DLC were all from trades....

Scott Proctor is the only guy I know of who we "signed"

 

Volstad. Just to name one. And we have shown in the past we have no problem bring AA guys up for a shot or two.

 

 

I don't know what you mean here - we drafted Volstad in 2005 (so I guess actually 2 projected starters were drafter while 3 were acquired via trade), while we signed only Proctor as a free agent. Basically everyone else with a shot to make the team right now was either acquired via trade or drafted (Rule 5 picks currently on the roster notwithstanding).

As far as bringing up guys while they're still young, of course we've been known to do that. I still think Badenhop, Kensing, or Vandenhurk should get the first cracks at starting if we need them.

 

Kensing won't ever touch a mound in the first inning again. VandenHurk will get a chance but needs to show command before they send him out in a ML uni again. Badenhop will certainly get a good shot at it, probably more than anyone else because he's 25, he was a college pitcher, has been in the big leagues, and shown the most command out of any of our options. Tucker could be given a shot if he can throw strikes.

 

Just want to clarify that I still prefer signing a veteran as our #6 starter, but I wouldn't think it's the worst thing in the world if those 3 had to spot start. Kensing's probably best off in the bullpen, I agree.

I am not concerned at all. It is a slight possibility that Millers knee isn't quite ready, then you have several options already on the 40 man roster. Hopper...RVH...Dan Meyer has done qite a bit of spot starting. You can even throw Dallas Trahern out there to see what he can do. We also still have Barone who pitched ok with the parent club. There are quite a few arms to go to, quality arms.

I'm comfortable with Jonathan Sanchez as the fifth starter. Now, go get him.

Wow. People criticized me for saying we would have a 70 win season next year most likely due to injuries and lack of depth but the dominoes are already starting to fall.

 

 

He's one pitcher, calm down.

Good God, the fifth starter doesnt have to be Cy Young. As I already stated, the Marlins starting rotation beginning last year was abysmal, and that team was in first place for a while.

Good God, the fifth starter doesnt have to be Cy Young. As I already stated, the Marlins starting rotation beginning last year was abysmal, and that team was in first place for a while.

 

 

Serioulsy we had a Hendrickson who could barely get by the 5th Inning an inexpirienced Andrew Miller, Nolasco who had a bad 1st month and an Average Olsen and we were in 1st place for a few weeks.

 

Even if Miller is hurt he won't be out long, he "might" going to be a few weeks late for "Spring Training"

he might be perfectly ready for the regular season but it's a definate advantage having JJ and Anibal back along with a Nolasco who came of the best season of his career and a 22 year old that pitches with the maturity like he's 32 in Chris Volsatd, you can really put any decent pitcher that can get by at least 4 or 5 innings in the 5th spot and he can have a 6 ERA or W/E that dosen't mean everytime he starts we will lose the game.

RVH would be my first choice.

 

I know we're a long way from Opening Day, but if a slightly hobbled 5th starter is our only concern we should count ourselves very lucky. The reality of going through an entire season with a set 5 guys is not at all realistic.

 

We just need Ricky and Josh to stay healthy and Volstad to not completely regress/sophomore slump and we are so far ahead of last year its re-god-damn-diculous.

I know its water under the bridge (actually is there such a thing on this forum?) but this is why I thought it was premature to deal Olsen in the off-season. Miller was (and apparently still is) a question mark at the end of last season. A reliable lefty in the rotation is a nice thing to have. Now we may not even have a lefty at all to start the season.

I know its water under the bridge (actually is there such a thing on this forum?) but this is why I thought it was premature to deal Olsen in the off-season. Miller was (and apparently still is) a question mark at the end of last season. A reliable lefty in the rotation is a nice thing to have. Now we may not even have a lefty at all to start the season.

 

 

I never wanted to get rid of olsen at least for this year or till the trade deadline. Anibal was my choice. Olsen was very relaile and a great 4th or 5th starter.

It wasn't premature to deal Olsen...it was clearly a cost cutting move to retain other players.

It wasn't premature to deal Olsen...it was clearly a cost cutting move to retain other players.

 

 

I feel the same way about Scott i love him and he's one of my favorite pitchers but it was really cost cutting like Mangus said.

Not premature at all just bad luck in being one of the more average starters in a great rotation.

RVH would be my first choice.

 

I know we're a long way from Opening Day, but if a slightly hobbled 5th starter is our only concern we should count ourselves very lucky. The reality of going through an entire season with a set 5 guys is not at all realistic.

 

We just need Ricky and Josh to stay healthy and Volstad to not completely regress/sophomore slump and we are so far ahead of last year its re-god-damn-diculous.

 

 

Rick Vanden Hurk has shown a lot of promise, and has some good stuff to be a starter in the league, his issue is that he usually only lasts 3 innings because of the amount of pitches he throws. The main reason RVH is only good to be a long reliever for any team.

RVH would be my first choice.

 

I know we're a long way from Opening Day, but if a slightly hobbled 5th starter is our only concern we should count ourselves very lucky. The reality of going through an entire season with a set 5 guys is not at all realistic.

 

We just need Ricky and Josh to stay healthy and Volstad to not completely regress/sophomore slump and we are so far ahead of last year its re-god-damn-diculous.

 

 

Rick Vanden Hurk has shown a lot of promise, and has some good stuff to be a starter in the league, his issue is that he usually only lasts 3 innings because of the amount of pitches he throws. The main reason RVH is only good to be a long reliever for any team.

 

Well this season give him the BOD

 

He pitched when we were probably playing our worst baseball and still ended up with a 1-1 record

But in his career he averages 5 IP per game.

But he could play a good role in the pen but a long reliver is usually for journeymen he could be a Mid Reliver with some Spot Starts if Miller is still Injured by the start of the regular season

RVH would be my first choice.

 

I know we're a long way from Opening Day, but if a slightly hobbled 5th starter is our only concern we should count ourselves very lucky. The reality of going through an entire season with a set 5 guys is not at all realistic.

 

We just need Ricky and Josh to stay healthy and Volstad to not completely regress/sophomore slump and we are so far ahead of last year its re-god-damn-diculous.

 

 

Rick Vanden Hurk has shown a lot of promise, and has some good stuff to be a starter in the league, his issue is that he usually only lasts 3 innings because of the amount of pitches he throws. The main reason RVH is only good to be a long reliever for any team.

 

Well this season give him the BOD

 

He pitched when we were probably playing our worst baseball and still ended up with a 1-1 record

But in his career he averages 5 IP per game.

But he could play a good role in the pen but a long reliver is usually for journeymen he could be a Mid Reliver with some Spot Starts if Miller is still Injured by the start of the regular season

 

Vanden Hurk not being able to get past 5 innings in most of his starts early in the season was a big reason why our bullpen was tired at the end of the year and suffered.

Expected in town early next week is lefty Andrew Miller, who projects to be in the rotation. Miller was in Jupiter recently, and he threw under Wiley's supervision.

 

The 23-year-old Miller was bothered by right patella tendinitis last year, which knocked him out of the rotation after he returned from the disabled list in the second half. Miller continues to get treatment on the knee, but he has been throwing, and he is expected to be ready to compete for a rotation spot when Spring Training begins.

 

Until he returns to Jupiter, Miller is continuing his throwing program at his home in Gainesville, Fla. He is expected to drive to Jupiter, along with right-handed prospect Brett Sinkbeil, a first-round Draft pick in 2006.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=fla

 

Encouraging signs regarding his health