It doesn't matter if it cost them the game, it was still absolutely stupid. The manager doesn't have to do much, except NOT utterly screw up in situations such as these. I accept that our roster is not playoff calibur...but that doesn't give Fredi free reign to act like a retard. What's going to happen years from now when we bring up guys like Stanton, Morrison, etc, and this guy is still being a moron?

 

 

Then you get rid of him. That is, if Stanton, Morrison, etc. are ripping the ball and Fredi is obviously the one holding back the team. Or, if Stanton, Morrison, etc. are failing, but we can't get rid of them all at once, and Fredi has to fall on the sword.

 

But if Fredi is such a moron, how are we at .500, we were (and still are) in the playoff hunt. With all the aspects of the team that are underperforming, the offense and pitching inconsistencies, firing Fredi and replacing him is not suddenly going to make the team that much better. Maybe a new manager will win us two or three games, but who he is managing and how they are playing may be the bigger problem.

 

 

We're .500 because we have really good players. Don't act like we're playing to/past expectations. We're better than a .500 team, for sure.

 

We are definitely a better than .500 team (by how much so, that is up for debate). And we do have good players. But are we at .500 because of Fredi or those good players not playing up to their potential/goodness?

 

Is it Fredi's fault that Ricky was horrible to open up the season or that Volstad continues to give up homers? Or that Uggla is not hitting well? On paper, we should be better. But in reality, we aren't, because the individual expectations are not being lived up to. And when those individual expectations fall short, the team in general falls short. But we are not a .500 team despite Fredi. We are a .500 team despite having a horrible May, an at times spotty rotation, and an offense that is hot and cold over the span of two games.

 

What I've been saying is there are many to blame, if we want to go down that path. It may start with Fredi, but it certainly doesn't end there, and it is much more likely if someone "following" him (a player) was living up to their potential, we wouldn't be having as severe a conversation.

Freddi Made 2 bad moves last night.

 

One was walking Paul f***ing Bako to face Jayson Werth.

 

The other was not bunting with Cantu in the 9th with Bonifacio at 2nd and Hanley at 1st.

 

I think Bonifacio bunted on his own with 2 outs there.

 

 

Not so sure on that. Take the bat out of the hands of the guy who is one of the best hitters on the team with RISP? Boni on 2nd means even a short single scores him. Just didn't work out.

 

Werth was 1 for 9 with 6 Ks in this series going into that AB. Fredi played the odds and it didn't work out. Didn't cost us the game, but it is something to point fingers at.

 

Not sticking up for Fredi, just putting some of the facts out there.

 

Yeah I understand where your coming from but to play the percentages it would be a smarter choice to bunt the runners over, but with a guy like Cantu up one swing could be the ball game.

 

I see your point, just not buying into it. Even a long fly ball out moves Boni over. And I can't even remember the last time Cantu has bunted. It may be something he is not that good at.

Freddi Made 2 bad moves last night.

 

One was walking Paul f***ing Bako to face Jayson Werth.

 

The other was not bunting with Cantu in the 9th with Bonifacio at 2nd and Hanley at 1st.

 

I think Bonifacio bunted on his own with 2 outs there.

 

 

Not so sure on that. Take the bat out of the hands of the guy who is one of the best hitters on the team with RISP? Boni on 2nd means even a short single scores him. Just didn't work out.

 

Werth was 1 for 9 with 6 Ks in this series going into that AB. Fredi played the odds and it didn't work out. Didn't cost us the game, but it is something to point fingers at.

 

Not sticking up for Fredi, just putting some of the facts out there.

 

 

He didn't play the odds at all.

If he would've played the odds, he would've pitched to Paul Bako. B/c odds are Paul Bako is the much easier out.

 

Think you missed the point. Werth is in a mini slump in this series. 1 fer 9 with 6 Ks going into that AB. And actually not exactly tearing the cover off the ball this year. All Star or not.

 

Again, not saying I agree with Fredi. I may also have pitched to Bako. Most likely would have. I'm just trying to understand the thinking process there and believe that was what Fredi and Carlos were looking at. It's something I tend to do. Instead of outright bashing I lean more towards trying to figure out why something is being done.

The only reason we're an above .500 team is because we've played the Nationals nine times this season.

The only reason we're an above .500 team is because we've played the Nationals nine times this season.

 

 

 

This is a joke, right?

Freddi Made 2 bad moves last night.

 

One was walking Paul f***ing Bako to face Jayson Werth.

 

The other was not bunting with Cantu in the 9th with Bonifacio at 2nd and Hanley at 1st.

 

I think Bonifacio bunted on his own with 2 outs there.

 

 

Not so sure on that. Take the bat out of the hands of the guy who is one of the best hitters on the team with RISP? Boni on 2nd means even a short single scores him. Just didn't work out.

 

Werth was 1 for 9 with 6 Ks in this series going into that AB. Fredi played the odds and it didn't work out. Didn't cost us the game, but it is something to point fingers at.

 

Not sticking up for Fredi, just putting some of the facts out there.

 

 

He didn't play the odds at all.

If he would've played the odds, he would've pitched to Paul Bako. B/c odds are Paul Bako is the much easier out.

 

Think you missed the point. Werth is in a mini slump in this series. 1 fer 9 with 6 Ks going into that AB. And actually not exactly tearing the cover off the ball this year. All Star or not.

 

Again, not saying I agree with Fredi. I may also have pitched to Bako. Most likely would have. I'm just trying to understand the thinking process there and believe that was what Fredi and Carlos were looking at. It's something I tend to do. Instead of outright bashing I lean more towards trying to figure out why something is being done.

 

Actually, he has a .870 OPS. That is pretty damn good.

To make it worse, look at these numbers.

 

.308/.481/.615 with RISP and 2 outs( 39 ABs)

.286/.394/.526 with Runners on( 133 ABs)

.341/.459/.610 with RISP( 82 ABs)

 

Bottom line, IBB Bako to pitch to Werth was stupid. Werth gets it done when it counts, and we put him in a position to succedd.

The only reason we're an above .500 team is because we've played the Nationals nine times this season.

 

This is a joke, right?

Why would it be a joke? The Nationals stink and we're 9-0 this season against them. If we had another decent team in our division, our record would be a fair degree worse. I'm just pointing out to the guy who said "Fredi can't be a poor manager as we're an above .500 team" that his logic is flawed.

The only reason we're an above .500 team is because we've played the Nationals nine times this season.

 

This is a joke, right?

Why would it be a joke? The Nationals stink and we're 9-0 this season against them. If we had another decent team in our division, our record would be a fair degree worse. I'm just pointing out to the guy who said "Fredi can't be a poor manager as we're an above .500 team" that his logic is flawed.

 

The Phillies are 10-2 against Washington this year, yet nobody ever brings that up in any discussions.

The only reason we're an above .500 team is because we've played the Nationals nine times this season.

 

This is a joke, right?

Why would it be a joke? The Nationals stink and we're 9-0 this season against them. If we had another decent team in our division, our record would be a fair degree worse. I'm just pointing out to the guy who said "Fredi can't be a poor manager as we're an above .500 team" that his logic is flawed.

 

The Phillies are 10-2 against Washington this year, yet nobody ever brings that up in any discussions.

 

Yeah, I don't see how being 9-0 against the Nats proves that being at or above .500 is not, in part, due to Fredi. A good manager, or even a competent one, will have his team beat the teams you are supposed to. If we want to discount those wins, can we also discount the loses against the Pirates, who are maybe a step or two above the Nats?

 

The Nationals stink, no doubt about that, but they aren't automatic wins and our victories against them count as much as victories against the Mets or Phillies. And one cannot really say "Oh, if the Nationals were better, we'd have a worse record" because we have beaten better teams, swept better teams. You start to play the hypothetical game, which one then can then apply elsewhere.

Freddi Made 2 bad moves last night.

 

One was walking Paul f***ing Bako to face Jayson Werth.

 

The other was not bunting with Cantu in the 9th with Bonifacio at 2nd and Hanley at 1st.

 

I think Bonifacio bunted on his own with 2 outs there.

 

 

 

 

No, not bunting there is actually a good move.

 

How do you figure? You win in the 9th not the 12th. We lost, therefore, it was a stupid move! Cantu is struggling right now, his average isn't that good, yeah he has one of the highest percentages on the team with RISP but so what. He didn't get the job done because only a base hit in that situation would have scored that run. Stupid Move.

 

I really hope this is a joke. Also, Cantu is batting .285, the 2nd highest average on the team behind Hanley amongst regulars, FWIW.

 

I really hope you aren't serious and watched the game, we really did lose. So what if Cantu is hitting .285, your proud of that? I can see your point of expecting Cantu to drive in the winning run but small ball in that situation seems more logical. With a guy on third there are many more ways to score. He didn't get the hit or move the runners therefore stupid move (repeated a thousand times).

 

I give up. Maybe Admin can sticky a post on logic. Just because there was an undesired result, it doesn't mean the actions leading up to it were stupid. It's amazing that you keep pressing this ("a thousand times") as if its an even remotely valid form of reasoning.

And I'm not positive that bunting isn't indeed the right play. Also, I just mentioned Cantu's average, FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH (FWIW). Didn't say it's amazing, just wanted to make sure the data was out there so no one was making any assumptions otherwise.

mystiko187 Didn't mean to come off sounding pompous or arrogant. I am new to the internet lingo too (FWIW)-yeah I had no idea what that meant so thanks for clearing that up. I was just trying to state my opinion as I would have played it. Before batting practice I believe everyone of the positon players takes BP and before they start swinging away they have to lay down some bunts. I am not saying that laying a bunt down in BP in the same as in game situations, however, I believe in this situation it would have been the more logical move. If you are in the majors, don't you think, if asked upon to lay down a bunt, you coud probably do that? There are so many more opportunities to score if a player is on third with one out than on second. I was completely shocked when we couldn't push 1 runner across the plate with 1st and 2nd and no outs. I didn't mean to take my frustrations out on a fellow fan and blogger. Please accept my apologies. It's frustrating when you should win games and end up losing them. Whatever the game is over and we lost because we couldn't execute. Good teams execute night in and night out.

Freddi Made 2 bad moves last night.

 

One was walking Paul f***ing Bako to face Jayson Werth.

 

The other was not bunting with Cantu in the 9th with Bonifacio at 2nd and Hanley at 1st.

 

I think Bonifacio bunted on his own with 2 outs there.

 

 

 

 

No, not bunting there is actually a good move.

 

How do you figure? You win in the 9th not the 12th. We lost, therefore, it was a stupid move! Cantu is struggling right now, his average isn't that good, yeah he has one of the highest percentages on the team with RISP but so what. He didn't get the job done because only a base hit in that situation would have scored that run. Stupid Move.

 

Was this a serious post?

Freddi Made 2 bad moves last night.

 

One was walking Paul f***ing Bako to face Jayson Werth.

 

The other was not bunting with Cantu in the 9th with Bonifacio at 2nd and Hanley at 1st.

 

I think Bonifacio bunted on his own with 2 outs there.

 

 

Not so sure on that. Take the bat out of the hands of the guy who is one of the best hitters on the team with RISP? Boni on 2nd means even a short single scores him. Just didn't work out.

 

Werth was 1 for 9 with 6 Ks in this series going into that AB. Fredi played the odds and it didn't work out. Didn't cost us the game, but it is something to point fingers at.

 

Not sticking up for Fredi, just putting some of the facts out there.

 

 

He didn't play the odds at all.

If he would've played the odds, he would've pitched to Paul Bako. B/c odds are Paul Bako is the much easier out.

 

Think you missed the point. Werth is in a mini slump in this series. 1 fer 9 with 6 Ks going into that AB. And actually not exactly tearing the cover off the ball this year. All Star or not.

 

Again, not saying I agree with Fredi. I may also have pitched to Bako. Most likely would have. I'm just trying to understand the thinking process there and believe that was what Fredi and Carlos were looking at. It's something I tend to do. Instead of outright bashing I lean more towards trying to figure out why something is being done.

 

Care to look at the #'s? Let me guess...you're wrong, thus you no longer care, right?

mystiko187 Didn't mean to come off sounding pompous or arrogant. I am new to the internet lingo too (FWIW)-yeah I had no idea what that meant so thanks for clearing that up. I was just trying to state my opinion as I would have played it. Before batting practice I believe everyone of the positon players takes BP and before they start swinging away they have to lay down some bunts. I am not saying that laying a bunt down in BP in the same as in game situations, however, I believe in this situation it would have been the more logical move. If you are in the majors, don't you think, if asked upon to lay down a bunt, you coud probably do that? There are so many more opportunities to score if a player is on third with one out than on second. I was completely shocked when we couldn't push 1 runner across the plate with 1st and 2nd and no outs. I didn't mean to take my frustrations out on a fellow fan and blogger. Please accept my apologies. It's frustrating when you should win games and end up losing them. Whatever the game is over and we lost because we couldn't execute. Good teams execute night in and night out.

 

 

Think about this...wouldn't you expect your cleanup hitter to drive in those runs? If not your cleanup hitter then who?

Also...it's really not that great of an advantage (if at all) just b/c the runner is at 3rd. I'd much rather have Cantu with runners at 1st and 2nd with 0 outs than to have the 6th hitter up with 1 out and the bases loaded.

There's no doubt that there will be another major purge of players at the end of the season. Herm, Uggla are all gone. Too expensive. Cantu and Ross maybe gone also. Too inconsistent play.

 

 

I agree, but if you do that you either will have the inexperience of 2006 all over again, or you will have to go out and buy some players. The latter is never going to happen, so I guess its back to 2006-type of team. I sure hope this mediocrity goes away when the new stadium opens, but I am not sure Loria will ever be one to spend any money.

There's no doubt that there will be another major purge of players at the end of the season. Herm, Uggla are all gone. Too expensive. Cantu and Ross maybe gone also. Too inconsistent play.

 

 

I agree, but if you do that you either will have the inexperience of 2006 all over again, or you will have to go out and buy some players. The latter is never going to happen, so I guess its back to 2006-type of team. I sure hope this mediocrity goes away when the new stadium opens, but I am not sure Loria will ever be one to spend any money.

 

A 2006 season next year wouldn't be bad. Having Morrison and possibly Stanton and Maybin and Gaby and Cousins and so forth getting they're growing paines out of the way in '10 is fine. We then filter out the next crop of rookies, and for '11 we should be good. We need to be more worried about being good in '11 and '12 then we do in '10. I'm not saying throw 10 away, but I view '11 and '12 as a lot more important when it comes to attendance and everything to do with the stadium than I do '10.

 

I mean, getting rid of people like Hermida and Uggla is not a big deal. They are not helping us win. Hell, with what we have in the minor leagues and rookies in the major leagues they should be gone if we want to be a better team. They're both bad defensively and have not helped us offensively they should. As 2003 puts it best, they are severely underpforming their contracts. If they were making 300k, fine. But uggla is making 5 mil and is in the bottom 30% of starting 2bs. Hermida is making 2 and a half mil and is in the bottom 15% of OFers.

 

Cody and Cantu leaving would be bad (especially Cody since he's one of the best CFers in the league, whereas Cantu is more or less an average corner IFer but that's far from a bad thing), but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Hanley is staying, and that's what is important. And nobody else is going to make above league minimum on offense.

 

People complain about our offensive inconstincies and then complain that we're going to get rid of these players. I really don't get it.

mystiko187 Didn't mean to come off sounding pompous or arrogant. I am new to the internet lingo too (FWIW)-yeah I had no idea what that meant so thanks for clearing that up. I was just trying to state my opinion as I would have played it. Before batting practice I believe everyone of the positon players takes BP and before they start swinging away they have to lay down some bunts. I am not saying that laying a bunt down in BP in the same as in game situations, however, I believe in this situation it would have been the more logical move. If you are in the majors, don't you think, if asked upon to lay down a bunt, you coud probably do that? There are so many more opportunities to score if a player is on third with one out than on second. I was completely shocked when we couldn't push 1 runner across the plate with 1st and 2nd and no outs. I didn't mean to take my frustrations out on a fellow fan and blogger. Please accept my apologies. It's frustrating when you should win games and end up losing them. Whatever the game is over and we lost because we couldn't execute. Good teams execute night in and night out.

 

 

Think about this...wouldn't you expect your cleanup hitter to drive in those runs? If not your cleanup hitter then who?

Also...it's really not that great of an advantage (if at all) just b/c the runner is at 3rd. I'd much rather have Cantu with runners at 1st and 2nd with 0 outs than to have the 6th hitter up with 1 out and the bases loaded.

 

Yes I would expect the cleanup hitter to drive in those runs but as of late he hasn't been doing that. Jorge Cantu is not a cleanup up hitter. He has 10 homeruns for crying out loud. Earlier in the season he was driving in runs left and right. This isn't the case right now. There is a huge advantage in my mind with a guy on 3rd base (especially Bonaficiout because of his "speed") because a pass ball, wild pitch, sac fly, single, or any error in the infield scores that run. If one of these things happens (except for the single) then the guy is only on 3rd base instead of jumping around on the diamond because of a walk off. If Cantu would have moved the runners over then Dan Uggla (I think he batted behind Canut that evening?) would have been up. He usually tries to hit homeruns every night so you would of thought he could of gotten a ball out to the outfield. Either way you said that most anyone on this board could have managed better than Fredi did. If I would have been managing we would have won that game. Cantu would have been pissed because he would have had to play team ball and bunt, but in the end we would have had a victory because the other way sure didn't work. In the 9th with 2 guys on and no outs I am trying to manufacture a run if players are called upon to bunt three times in a row to get the runners home. Poor execution with runners in scoring position has been the Marlins downfall. Look at everyones average except for Hanley's and it's disgusting, high OPS and OBS or not it doesn't matter unless you score. Sorry for the rant this is just how I feel, but this is what this board is for no?

mystiko187 Didn't mean to come off sounding pompous or arrogant. I am new to the internet lingo too (FWIW)-yeah I had no idea what that meant so thanks for clearing that up. I was just trying to state my opinion as I would have played it. Before batting practice I believe everyone of the positon players takes BP and before they start swinging away they have to lay down some bunts. I am not saying that laying a bunt down in BP in the same as in game situations, however, I believe in this situation it would have been the more logical move. If you are in the majors, don't you think, if asked upon to lay down a bunt, you coud probably do that? There are so many more opportunities to score if a player is on third with one out than on second. I was completely shocked when we couldn't push 1 runner across the plate with 1st and 2nd and no outs. I didn't mean to take my frustrations out on a fellow fan and blogger. Please accept my apologies. It's frustrating when you should win games and end up losing them. Whatever the game is over and we lost because we couldn't execute. Good teams execute night in and night out.

 

Think about this...wouldn't you expect your cleanup hitter to drive in those runs? If not your cleanup hitter then who?

Also...it's really not that great of an advantage (if at all) just b/c the runner is at 3rd. I'd much rather have Cantu with runners at 1st and 2nd with 0 outs than to have the 6th hitter up with 1 out and the bases loaded.

 

From Uberschnell: Yes I would expect the cleanup hitter to drive in those runs but as of late he hasn't been doing that. Jorge Cantu is not a cleanup up hitter.

 

I've thinking the same thing for a while too, but what other option is there with what we have? I like Jorge but he just doesnt seem to fit the 4 spot.

mystiko187 Didn't mean to come off sounding pompous or arrogant. I am new to the internet lingo too (FWIW)-yeah I had no idea what that meant so thanks for clearing that up. I was just trying to state my opinion as I would have played it. Before batting practice I believe everyone of the positon players takes BP and before they start swinging away they have to lay down some bunts. I am not saying that laying a bunt down in BP in the same as in game situations, however, I believe in this situation it would have been the more logical move. If you are in the majors, don't you think, if asked upon to lay down a bunt, you coud probably do that? There are so many more opportunities to score if a player is on third with one out than on second. I was completely shocked when we couldn't push 1 runner across the plate with 1st and 2nd and no outs. I didn't mean to take my frustrations out on a fellow fan and blogger. Please accept my apologies. It's frustrating when you should win games and end up losing them. Whatever the game is over and we lost because we couldn't execute. Good teams execute night in and night out.

 

Think about this...wouldn't you expect your cleanup hitter to drive in those runs? If not your cleanup hitter then who?

Also...it's really not that great of an advantage (if at all) just b/c the runner is at 3rd. I'd much rather have Cantu with runners at 1st and 2nd with 0 outs than to have the 6th hitter up with 1 out and the bases loaded.

 

From Uberschnell: Yes I would expect the cleanup hitter to drive in those runs but as of late he hasn't been doing that. Jorge Cantu is not a cleanup up hitter.

 

I've thinking the same thing for a while too, but what other option is there with what we have? I like Jorge but he just doesnt seem to fit the 4 spot.

 

id like to have cody there and put jorge in the 5 spot

Freddi Made 2 bad moves last night.

 

One was walking Paul f***ing Bako to face Jayson Werth.

 

The other was not bunting with Cantu in the 9th with Bonifacio at 2nd and Hanley at 1st.

 

I think Bonifacio bunted on his own with 2 outs there.

 

 

Not so sure on that. Take the bat out of the hands of the guy who is one of the best hitters on the team with RISP? Boni on 2nd means even a short single scores him. Just didn't work out.

 

Werth was 1 for 9 with 6 Ks in this series going into that AB. Fredi played the odds and it didn't work out. Didn't cost us the game, but it is something to point fingers at.

 

Not sticking up for Fredi, just putting some of the facts out there.

 

 

He didn't play the odds at all.

If he would've played the odds, he would've pitched to Paul Bako. B/c odds are Paul Bako is the much easier out.

 

Think you missed the point. Werth is in a mini slump in this series. 1 fer 9 with 6 Ks going into that AB. And actually not exactly tearing the cover off the ball this year. All Star or not.

 

Again, not saying I agree with Fredi. I may also have pitched to Bako. Most likely would have. I'm just trying to understand the thinking process there and believe that was what Fredi and Carlos were looking at. It's something I tend to do. Instead of outright bashing I lean more towards trying to figure out why something is being done.

 

Care to look at the #'s? Let me guess...you're wrong, thus you no longer care, right?

 

Let me guess. You didn't read the rest of the post or are just ignoring it because you found something to argue with me about.

 

Without bothering to check, I would guess his OPS numbers are a result of where he plays half his home games. And I am looking at this...After the ASG, in this series, he was 1 for 9 with 6 Ks going into that AB. I didn't even bother to see what he has done vs that particular pitcher. Just trying to figure out why they did what they did. And I did say I personally most likely would have pitched to Bako and not IBB him. So if I am agreeing with those posts, I have to guess those posts are also wrong?

 

Feel free to ignore, as usual, any part of this post you can't argue with me about. I take it as a difference of style. I like to figure out why something was done, and you like to point fingers, assign blame, and proclaim yourself to be smarter than those in position to actually make the decisions.

mystiko187 Didn't mean to come off sounding pompous or arrogant. I am new to the internet lingo too (FWIW)-yeah I had no idea what that meant so thanks for clearing that up. I was just trying to state my opinion as I would have played it. Before batting practice I believe everyone of the positon players takes BP and before they start swinging away they have to lay down some bunts. I am not saying that laying a bunt down in BP in the same as in game situations, however, I believe in this situation it would have been the more logical move. If you are in the majors, don't you think, if asked upon to lay down a bunt, you coud probably do that? There are so many more opportunities to score if a player is on third with one out than on second. I was completely shocked when we couldn't push 1 runner across the plate with 1st and 2nd and no outs. I didn't mean to take my frustrations out on a fellow fan and blogger. Please accept my apologies. It's frustrating when you should win games and end up losing them. Whatever the game is over and we lost because we couldn't execute. Good teams execute night in and night out.

 

 

Think about this...wouldn't you expect your cleanup hitter to drive in those runs? If not your cleanup hitter then who?

Also...it's really not that great of an advantage (if at all) just b/c the runner is at 3rd. I'd much rather have Cantu with runners at 1st and 2nd with 0 outs than to have the 6th hitter up with 1 out and the bases loaded.

 

You touched on the right answer but didn't answer the question you bolded. Bunting has become a lost art in the majors. So the answer would be "No." Some players just can't lay down a bunt because they never really practise it. Guys like Cantu that are very dangerous with RISP never work on that skill because they aren't expected to waste an AB just to move runners over. They are expected to drive them in.

mystiko187 Didn't mean to come off sounding pompous or arrogant. I am new to the internet lingo too (FWIW)-yeah I had no idea what that meant so thanks for clearing that up. I was just trying to state my opinion as I would have played it. Before batting practice I believe everyone of the positon players takes BP and before they start swinging away they have to lay down some bunts. I am not saying that laying a bunt down in BP in the same as in game situations, however, I believe in this situation it would have been the more logical move. If you are in the majors, don't you think, if asked upon to lay down a bunt, you coud probably do that? There are so many more opportunities to score if a player is on third with one out than on second. I was completely shocked when we couldn't push 1 runner across the plate with 1st and 2nd and no outs. I didn't mean to take my frustrations out on a fellow fan and blogger. Please accept my apologies. It's frustrating when you should win games and end up losing them. Whatever the game is over and we lost because we couldn't execute. Good teams execute night in and night out.

 

 

Think about this...wouldn't you expect your cleanup hitter to drive in those runs? If not your cleanup hitter then who?

Also...it's really not that great of an advantage (if at all) just b/c the runner is at 3rd. I'd much rather have Cantu with runners at 1st and 2nd with 0 outs than to have the 6th hitter up with 1 out and the bases loaded.

 

Yes I would expect the cleanup hitter to drive in those runs but as of late he hasn't been doing that. Jorge Cantu is not a cleanup up hitter. He has 10 homeruns for crying out loud. Earlier in the season he was driving in runs left and right. This isn't the case right now. There is a huge advantage in my mind with a guy on 3rd base (especially Bonaficiout because of his "speed") because a pass ball, wild pitch, sac fly, single, or any error in the infield scores that run. If one of these things happens (except for the single) then the guy is only on 3rd base instead of jumping around on the diamond because of a walk off. If Cantu would have moved the runners over then Dan Uggla (I think he batted behind Canut that evening?) would have been up. He usually tries to hit homeruns every night so you would of thought he could of gotten a ball out to the outfield. Either way you said that most anyone on this board could have managed better than Fredi did. If I would have been managing we would have won that game. Cantu would have been pissed because he would have had to play team ball and bunt, but in the end we would have had a victory because the other way sure didn't work. In the 9th with 2 guys on and no outs I am trying to manufacture a run if players are called upon to bunt three times in a row to get the runners home. Poor execution with runners in scoring position has been the Marlins downfall. Look at everyones average except for Hanley's and it's disgusting, high OPS and OBS or not it doesn't matter unless you score. Sorry for the rant this is just how I feel, but this is what this board is for no?

 

At the moment it's kinda hard to look at his HR totals because he was experiencing weakness from medication for so long. But if you looked at his RBI totals he is second on the team right now. That means he is getting the job done with RISP. I just find it hard to take the bat out of the hands of a guy that is getting the job done when he has the opportunities.

It doesn't matter if it cost them the game, it was still absolutely stupid. The manager doesn't have to do much, except NOT utterly screw up in situations such as these. I accept that our roster is not playoff calibur...but that doesn't give Fredi free reign to act like a retard. What's going to happen years from now when we bring up guys like Stanton, Morrison, etc, and this guy is still being a moron?

 

 

Then you get rid of him. That is, if Stanton, Morrison, etc. are ripping the ball and Fredi is obviously the one holding back the team. Or, if Stanton, Morrison, etc. are failing, but we can't get rid of them all at once, and Fredi has to fall on the sword.

 

But if Fredi is such a moron, how are we at .500, we were (and still are) in the playoff hunt. With all the aspects of the team that are underperforming, the offense and pitching inconsistencies, firing Fredi and replacing him is not suddenly going to make the team that much better. Maybe a new manager will win us two or three games, but who he is managing and how they are playing may be the bigger problem.

 

 

We're .500 because we have really good players. Don't act like we're playing to/past expectations. We're better than a .500 team, for sure.

 

We are definitely a better than .500 team (by how much so, that is up for debate). And we do have good players. But are we at .500 because of Fredi or those good players not playing up to their potential/goodness?

 

Is it Fredi's fault that Ricky was horrible to open up the season or that Volstad continues to give up homers? Or that Uggla is not hitting well? On paper, we should be better. But in reality, we aren't, because the individual expectations are not being lived up to. And when those individual expectations fall short, the team in general falls short. But we are not a .500 team despite Fredi. We are a .500 team despite having a horrible May, an at times spotty rotation, and an offense that is hot and cold over the span of two games.

 

What I've been saying is there are many to blame, if we want to go down that path. It may start with Fredi, but it certainly doesn't end there, and it is much more likely if someone "following" him (a player) was living up to their potential, we wouldn't be having as severe a conversation.

 

I don't know why you believe we are "definitely a better than .500 team (by how much so, that is up for debate)", is it just because you say we are ? What gives you that impression, because the Marlins record so far this year, and over the last 4 seasons, says otherwise. They are what they are, a mediocre team. Not bad but certainly not great and also not a playoff team. The FO has its hands tied by Loria. Its a damn shame but it looks like we will never get it done while Johnson, Uggla and Hanley are here. I suspect all 3 will be gone by 2012. Only a slight chance that Hanely is here. They will need to trade him for a bunch of players to fill out the 2012 roster.

 

Do you guys really, truly believe the new stadium will solve some of the woes or is it we just will never have a decent payroll as long as Loria is the owner ?

Let me guess. You didn't read the rest of the post or are just ignoring it because you found something to argue with me about.

 

Without bothering to check, I would guess his OPS numbers are a result of where he plays half his home games. And I am looking at this...After the ASG, in this series, he was 1 for 9 with 6 Ks going into that AB. I didn't even bother to see what he has done vs that particular pitcher. Just trying to figure out why they did what they did. And I did say I personally most likely would have pitched to Bako and not IBB him. So if I am agreeing with those posts, I have to guess those posts are also wrong?

 

Feel free to ignore, as usual, any part of this post you can't argue with me about. I take it as a difference of style. I like to figure out why something was done, and you like to point fingers, assign blame, and proclaim yourself to be smarter than those in position to actually make the decisions.

 

 

You can hide behind the argument of "Erick just wants to argue with me!", but the fact of the matter is you said something obviously unfounded without looking at it at all. He's got a .922 OPS on the road (believe me, I was surprised too).

 

If you say something obviously factually inaccurate and then someone calls you out on it, you look pretty silly by then trying to change the subject. You are essentially trying to call Erick a bully.

Fredi makes stupid mistakes quite often. I've been a big supporter of him, but he needs to shape up.. I mean really, he played Hermida the first game against the Phillies. Jamie Moyer is tough as hell against the Fish and Hermida bats like .195 against lefties.. WHY on earth would you put him in?