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Don't Crucify the Marlins for Making Smart Moves


Erick
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The article complete ignores the mass trade off of talent after 2005, which while it netted us some good players, also strangely enough sent out as many good players as we got in return.

 

These moves aren't worth crucifying the Marlins for, but there really is hardly anything worth praising them for either in years of bad deals since 2006. Any fans truly criticizing these moves would have their anger better placed in looking at why the Marlins got here, finally opening up their pocket books and yet wasting it on Heath Bell, John Buck, and resulting in less than mediocrity.

 

It's hard to say the Marlins got bad vaue for Hanley, but its ridiculous when you look at the players we've traded in the last 6-7 years and how many of them were traded when their value was the lowest it had been in years.

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The article complete ignores the mass trade off of talent after 2005, which while it netted us some good players, also strangely enough sent out as many good players as we got in return.

 

These moves aren't worth crucifying the Marlins for, but there really is hardly anything worth praising them for either in years of bad deals since 2006.

 

 

Nobody really gets it. Stick with the same parts every year even if they suck. That seems to be what most people want.

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The article complete ignores the mass trade off of talent after 2005, which while it netted us some good players, also strangely enough sent out as many good players as we got in return.

 

These moves aren't worth crucifying the Marlins for, but there really is hardly anything worth praising them for either in years of bad deals since 2006.

 

 

Nobody really gets it. Stick with the same parts every year even if they suck. That seems to be what most people want.

 

No, we expect you to not constantly be giving away talent for free. Every baseball team makes trades, but only the rich ones can survive when year after year the best they do in any trade is break even. We've seen the likes of Cody Ross, Josh Willingham, Jorge Cantu, Jeremy Hermida, Cameron Maybin, certainly others, and now Hanley, pretty much (or even actually) given away because they could not have been any more worthless than they were in the moment that they were traded.

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Cabrerra and Wilis werent given away for free. Thats the chance you take when getting prospects.

 

Even including Cantu and Hermida in there is silly since both werent doing great when traded and both declined sharply very shortly after they were traded so you would have rather held on to them and gotten absolutely nothing at all.?

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Cabrerra and Wilis werent given away for free. Thats the chance you take when getting prospects.

 

Even including Cantu and Hermida in there is silly since both werent doing great when traded and both declined sharply very shortly after they were traded so you would have rather held on to them and gotten absolutely nothing at all.?

 

 

How in blazes does that disprove my point? You are illustrating my point. No, what the Marlins need to do is have some gosh darn foresight and have a plan besides wait until players start playing a lot worse than they normally do, then trade them for nearly nothing before they hit rock bottom.

 

I've long since advocated making splash deals when players or prospect values are high, not when they are at their lowest. For example, I was very vocal about trading Willingham in the fashion he was dealt while keeping Hermida, who tanked after that.

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What the Marlins have done so far is fine. I just hope the FO is smarter with their money. The Nunez, Bell and Ozzie contracts were disliked when they were signed. The Ramirez contract looks bad now, but was at least reasonable when offered. Just be consistent. No flashy stuff for the sake of it please. No Hamilton please!

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If only they would make smart moves. They've made several unsmart moves, most notably their free agent signings, but also including their approach to filling the bullpen or other bench spots. If they would just choose a path and stick with it I could support their moves, but I have a feeling they'll sign more players that will contribute to more stupid decisions.

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Cabrerra and Wilis werent given away for free. Thats the chance you take when getting prospects.

 

Even including Cantu and Hermida in there is silly since both werent doing great when traded and both declined sharply very shortly after they were traded so you would have rather held on to them and gotten absolutely nothing at all.?

 

 

How in blazes does that disprove my point? You are illustrating my point. No, what the Marlins need to do is have some gosh darn foresight and have a plan besides wait until players start playing a lot worse than they normally do, then trade them for nearly nothing before they hit rock bottom.

 

I've long since advocated making splash deals when players or prospect values are high, not when they are at their lowest. For example, I was very vocal about trading Willingham in the fashion he was dealt while keeping Hermida, who tanked after that.

 

Well that sounds absolutely contradictory to what the team was trying to accomplish then because your giving up your best talent at the time when your trying to win with a small market payroll and are limited to what you receive back because of that payroll and I guarentee you most of the fans would be bitching more than they are now if they didnt pan out. I guess we should have traded Hanley at the end of 09 since he dropped off the map and lost value for 2 and a half more seasons.

 

But you have already said you had predicted all the things that would come to past in your post the other day so i guess everyone else was completely off base.

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The article complete ignores the mass trade off of talent after 2005, which while it netted us some good players, also strangely enough sent out as many good players as we got in return.

 

 

 

 

The team they paid for in 2005 sucked. Are they supposed to stick to the same plan even when they lose? It doesn't really matter how many names you have on your roster. At the end of the day, the only thing that brings fans to the ballpark is winning. An attempt should be made to ultimately get better when you suck.

 

This is also not similar to 2005, to be fair.

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I love how a bunch of people on the internet know that they could have gotten more for Hanley Ramirez. We're not talking about trading away Miguel Cabrera in his prime. We're talking about trading away a guy near 0 WAR and is owed 15 million over the next two years.

 

 

He has a 1.4 WAR. He would've most likely reached 2 WAR by the end of the season. He's an average player at this point.

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The article complete ignores the mass trade off of talent after 2005, which while it netted us some good players, also strangely enough sent out as many good players as we got in return.

 

These moves aren't worth crucifying the Marlins for, but there really is hardly anything worth praising them for either in years of bad deals since 2006.

 

 

Nobody really gets it. Stick with the same parts every year even if they suck. That seems to be what most people want.

 

No, we expect you to not constantly be giving away talent for free. Every baseball team makes trades, but only the rich ones can survive when year after year the best they do in any trade is break even. We've seen the likes of Cody Ross, Josh Willingham, Jorge Cantu, Jeremy Hermida, Cameron Maybin, certainly others, and now Hanley, pretty much (or even actually) given away because they could not have been any more worthless than they were in the moment that they were traded.

 

Josh Willingham was not given away. He brought back Bonifacio.

Cantu sucks.

Hermida was a bust.

 

You really exaggerate some of these. Next you'll mention Mike Jacobs because you've done it before...

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I love how a bunch of people on the internet know that they could have gotten more for Hanley Ramirez. We're not talking about trading away Miguel Cabrera in his prime. We're talking about trading away a guy near 0 WAR and is owed 15 million over the next two years.

 

 

He has a 1.4 WAR. He would've most likely reached 2 WAR by the end of the season. He's an average player at this point.

 

Average players making the amount of money he makes aren't valuable.

I'll agree with the thought that this was probably a bad time to trade him, but time will tell on that. If Hanley continues to be the player of the past couple of years, this is a good trade to get rid of that salary. And I doubt anyone wanted to trade Hanley when he was good so when was the right time (not directed at you, directed at Sirspud)?

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I love how a bunch of people on the internet know that they could have gotten more for Hanley Ramirez. We're not talking about trading away Miguel Cabrera in his prime. We're talking about trading away a guy near 0 WAR and is owed 15 million over the next two years.

 

 

He has a 1.4 WAR. He would've most likely reached 2 WAR by the end of the season. He's an average player at this point.

 

Average players making the amount of money he makes aren't valuable.

I'll agree with the thought that this was probably a bad time to trade him, but time will tell on that. If Hanley continues to be the player of the past couple of years, this is a good trade to get rid of that salary. And I doubt anyone wanted to trade Hanley when he was good so when was the right time (not directed at you, directed at Sirspud)?

 

All I was saying was that he's playing average baseball right now. He's not close to being a 0 WAR player.

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Hard for me to be upset with these moves. Marlins brass tried to make a big splash with some high-priced free agents to go along with the new stadium, but Reyes has been meh and there are no words to describe Bell. Simultaneously, JJ and Ramirez never returned to top form, and Morrison, Nolasco, and both Sanchezes (Gaby and Anibal) never took that next step forward. They put a lot of stock in these players and to a man every single one of them has stunk it up. Granted, part of that is on them--the signings of Bell and Buck were questionable even when they were made--but nobody predicted that pretty much every player would stagnate or get worse. As the GM, what are you supposed to do? Continue with a top tier payroll for a sub-.500 team? This experiment was a failure. Time to drop the deadweight and try something else.

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Jesus christ some of you are something else. Complaining about what we got in return in this situation is like having your house go into forclosure. Then, you're lucky enough that the bank decides to rid you of the debt as long as you just hand the house to them. AND THEN, complaining that they didn't give you the money to buy another one. It's already been said a million times, addition by subtraction. Hanley's money will be used in a better (hopefully) way. I'm actually excited to see what new deals we'll make. Hopefully we can get that tumorous pancreas (buck) shipped off somewhere soon.

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Let's get a few things right, all the trades the Marlins made in 2005 were busts with two exceptions. Hanley wasn't producing, but you dont give up on a former batting champion who is 28 years old and get peanuts in return. The Marlins FO is horrible. At the moment we have almost nothing in our farm system and there is not a plethora of free-agents this upcoming year with the exception of Greinke.

 

So where is the organization heading? Why couldn't Magic Johnson have bought the Marlins and we could have traded for Kemp and Greinke?

 

The FO brought in both Guillen and Zambrano (to the cheers of many on here) and stupidly pushed hard for Pujols. LoMo might be the next Hermida, Matt Domiguez was nothing, Nolasco is mediocre, we lack a CF while Alejandro De Aza tears it up in Chicago, Girardi, the best manager in baseball, in laughing from NYC.

 

We look to be destined to a decade of mediocrity. Stanton will be the next to go, and I'm sure he can't wait.

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i'm very happy with all the trades so far. Marlins owners tried to put together a winning team and it did not work, and if it's not working the best thing to do is to get rid of the pieces that don't fit and start all over

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This is what happens when you sell. I don't think Marlins fans have seen an actual selling team for awhile. For the past few years, they've been kind of cruising, doing well enough to kind of stay in it, yet fading away shortly after the trade deadline and being very "eh" in August and September.They're getting people to build on for the future and clearing up money for free agency next season. Those who say we got nothing for Hanley, well, there's an open $15-16 million/year to get a guy or guys they like next year. Now, you can hate the guys they get later and say they're not worth it, but it's not nothing. This is basic front office movement. They've tried everything they could with the roster they have, and it wasn't enough, so it's time to give up on this campaign and see if they can get a different cast. Granted, coaching could be the issue, but firing the hitting coach wasn't going to be a magic wand for this team. They're professionals. They need to take some responsibility for their personal growth

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