February 25, 201313 yr I don't think that saying the Toronto trade "has been almost universally accepted by baseball experts" is factually accurate. The letter, for the most part, seems to have the same delusional thinking that Samson used to spew over the radio. It's not. Although I guess we should have Loria clarify his definition of 'experts', though. I'm sure its different than the industry wide definition, since thats by and large not the case.
February 25, 201313 yr Didn't he just hire a new PR firm? LOL A PR firm called The Jeffrey Group. We all knew how that would turn out. With an IRS audit?
February 25, 201313 yr Nobody disagrees that last year was a disappointment. Nobody disagrees that the Marlins needed to make changes and do something different. But this ownership is so tone deaf that they completely "nuked" the payroll after promising to field middle of the pack "competitive" payrolls with the new ballpark...and now they are trying to PR their way out of it. I'm not going to stop being a Marlins fan...but the 20-game plans I bought might become 3-4 games this year...and all bought on stubhub for dirt cheap. Talking about how good the trade was in "baseball terms" is a major example of how tone deaf Loria and Samson are.
February 25, 201313 yr Author I sincerely think that releasing this poorly written letter filled with a bunch of David Samson-isms several months after the fact is pretty insulting to the fanbase. There's really only one gesture that Loria can make right now to smooth things over with the fans, and that's to at least make it seem like they are actively trying to negotiate a contract extension with Giancarlo Stanton. The second best gesture would be to fire the people who are mostly responsible for the "disappointing" 2012 season. How can we trust the FO when the people who screwed everything up are still allowed to make the important personnel decisions? In other words, the Marlins need to demonstrate that they've learned from their mistakes and are actively trying to correct them. That's pretty obvious. Loria should not need to pay The Jeffrey Group a shit ton of money to figure that one out.
February 25, 201313 yr I really dont get how Beinfest and Co still have jobs, tbh. They havent gotten to the playoffs in 10 years. Must be something about these 1993 expansion franchises and letting incompetent front office executives retain jobs.
February 25, 201313 yr For what it's worth, I hadn't noticed the word "celebrated" in the letter before HotCorner mentioned it. That's actually pretty funny. I now sort of take back what I said, although I still think some are nitpicking because they hate the guy (which, of course, you all have a right to hate the guy, I guess).
February 25, 201313 yr I sincerely think that releasing this poorly written letter filled with a bunch of David Samson-isms several months after the fact is pretty insulting to the fanbase. There's really only one gesture that Loria can make right now to smooth things over with the fans, and that's to at least make it seem like they are actively trying to negotiate a contract extension with Giancarlo Stanton. The second best gesture would be to fire the people who are mostly responsible for the "disappointing" 2012 season. How can we trust the FO when the people who screwed everything up are still allowed to make the important personnel decisions? In other words, the Marlins need to demonstrate that they've learned from their mistakes and are actively trying to correct them. That's pretty obvious. Loria should not need to pay The Jeffrey Group a shit ton of money to figure that one out. That would require Loria to fire himself. As long as he keeps dictating onfield personnel decisions, there will be problems no matter who else is in the FO. There have been exceptions, but generally owners getting actively involved in team management doesn't work well.
February 25, 201313 yr Author I certainly think that Loria's intervention has been a major counterweight to the team's potential success, but I'm not sure there's a simple remedy for that from a PR standpoint. As you allude to it, Loria won't fire himself. We also don't really know exactly what goes on behind the scenes so it won't be easy to discern if he has increased or decreased his input. However, I do think that firing Beinfest/Hill would not only have PR benefits but could certainly improve the team if the right replacements are hired. Beinfest/Hill haven't really been terrible at their jobs, but they've been average/mediocre for almost 10 years. Being average for that length of time and failing to produce a single playoff team warrants replacement.
February 25, 201313 yr Author Well, all the major talent was pretty much taken by the time of our first pick, wasn't it? Lol 16. Chris Volstad 22. Aaron Thompson 29. Jacob Marceau 34. Ryan Tucker 44. Sean West 23. Jacoby Ellsbury 25. Matt Garza 26. Craig Hansen 42. Clay Buchholz 45. Jed Lowrie 47. Michael Bowden
February 25, 201313 yr I don't want to sound like a Loria apologist but people complained when he stayed silent after the trade. Now there are complaints when he says something. I don't think he said anything particularly wrong but it just proves there is nothing he can do to appease most of the fans ever again. Ever again? Don't ever say never. There is something he can do to immediately appease the fans, even turn them around, excite them, and sell more seats.... and that's to sign Stanton. There's nothing short of that that he can do at this point, and it makes financial sense whether one considers Loria a lying cheapskate or a misunderstood patron saint.
February 25, 201313 yr Author I actually think him selling the team is the only way to truly placate fans. Him signing Stanton to a long term deal(which of course will not have a no trade clause, will be shorter than most arbitration buyouts, and will be heavily backloaded) will look just like all of the deals signed last offseason...deals that look like they were set up to be offloaded after they were given to make the fans shut up.
February 25, 201313 yr I don't want to sound like a Loria apologist but people complained when he stayed silent after the trade. Now there are complaints when he says something. I don't think he said anything particularly wrong but it just proves there is nothing he can do to appease most of the fans ever again. Why did he wait four months? He's been in hiding until now, and has yet to address the media since the trade in an official capacity. If he was so pleased with this deal and everything, why is he laying low?Don't know why he waited so long but he plans to address the media tomorrow. Maybe to help with the final preseason blitz for season ticket sales? The same guy that had called me twice before called me again last Thursday trying to get me to change my mind. Either they don't take notes on their sales calls, or this guy has balls as big as the one that falls in Times Square on New Years.
February 25, 201313 yr Author I don't want to sound like a Loria apologist but people complained when he stayed silent after the trade. Now there are complaints when he says something. I don't think he said anything particularly wrong but it just proves there is nothing he can do to appease most of the fans ever again. Ever again? Don't ever say never. There is something he can do to immediately appease the fans, even turn them around, excite them, and sell more seats.... and that's to sign Stanton. There's nothing short of that that he can do at this point, and it makes financial sense whether one considers Loria a lying cheapskate or a misunderstood patron saint.Even if he signed Stanton long term today, the majority of the fans complaining would still complain and not buy tickets.
February 25, 201313 yr 23. Jacoby Ellsbury 25. Matt Garza 26. Craig Hansen 42. Clay Buchholz 45. Jed Lowrie 47. Michael Bowden Injury prone Not that good Who? Injury prone On the Astros lol Who?
February 25, 201313 yr At least we went from 28th ranked minor league to the 5th. The problem is that when these guys graduate to the big leagues, you now have a 28th ranked minor league system again because we have proven that we can't draft worth a flip. If you want to play young, that's fine, but you have to be able to draft. ....or you have to have a big wallet. Right now, we have neither. Loria - please go away! Cause they didn't draft Fernandez or Yelich or Stanton or Ozuna or Heaney... The draft is more of a crapshoot than the playoffs. They've drafted better recently.You're right they didn't draft Ozuna, he's just one of the very few international signings that actually has a chance to work out.So in conclusion they don't draft particularly well (drafting more for signing cheaper players versus better players who cost more) or sign international players either or make trades were they get MLB ready players when shedding massive amounts of payroll
February 25, 201313 yr Author 23. Jacoby Ellsbury 25. Matt Garza 26. Craig Hansen 42. Clay Buchholz 45. Jed Lowrie 47. Michael Bowden Injury prone Not that good Who? Injury prone On the Astros lol Who?You seriously wouldn't have much preferred Ellsbury, Garza, Buchholz, or Lowrie over the crap the Marlins drafted? I mean, Ellsbury was a 9.4 WAR player in 2011. Missing time for injuries isn't enough reason to say the Marlins missed out on a pretty damn good player. Hell, one could say that Giancarlo Stanton is "injury prone." And you are severely underrating Garza. If the Marlins had drafted him, he'd easily have been the best or second best SP in the rotation after Johnson (who is also in your words "injury prone"). Garza put up really solid numbers despite spending most of his career in the AL East. This is homerism on a whole new level.
February 25, 201313 yr Author after they were given to make the fans shut up. Teams that make baseball decisions based on fan reactions solely will not be successful for the most part. That wasn't the reason for the contracts last year.
February 25, 201313 yr Author For the record, I think that the Marlins have been average-ish in drafting players. However, they've almost entirely neglected the international players market, which is probably one of the reasons they've lacked depth in recent years.
February 25, 201313 yr Author after they were given to make the fans shut up. Teams that make baseball decisions based on fan reactions solely will not be successful for the most part. That wasn't the reason for the contracts last year.I think it was part of the reason just as it was part of the reason to hire Ozzie Guillen. They wanted to make a splash and create some buzz in an effort to get South Florida excited about baseball. The Marlins knew that they had an image of "cheapness" that they wanted to shed.
February 25, 201313 yr The Marlins, even before Loria, have a history of acquiring players that would please South Florida fans but, as others here have said, Loria wants to win too. The moves last year look like they had both objectives. Signing players who are popular with fans without also winning games doesn't buy much lasting fan support. That would be true of signing Stanton. Many of us would applaud the signing but by itself it wouldn't change many opinions of Loria or the long-term management of the team. We still want results.
February 25, 201313 yr 23. Jacoby Ellsbury 25. Matt Garza 26. Craig Hansen 42. Clay Buchholz 45. Jed Lowrie 47. Michael Bowden Injury prone Not that good Who? Injury prone On the Astros lol Who?You seriously wouldn't have much preferred Ellsbury, Garza, Buchholz, or Lowrie over the crap the Marlins drafted? I mean, Ellsbury was a 9.4 WAR player in 2011. Missing time for injuries isn't enough reason to say the Marlins missed out on a pretty damn good player. Hell, one could say that Giancarlo Stanton is "injury prone." And you are severely underrating Garza. If the Marlins had drafted him, he'd easily have been the best or second best SP in the rotation after Johnson (who is also in your words "injury prone"). Garza put up really solid numbers despite spending most of his career in the AL East. This is homerism on a whole new level. Well now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said I wouldn't have preferred those guys. Maybe I am underrating Garza, I can't get in a PC right now to look up stats in depth, but Lowrie - we would have traded him long before he got to the Majors cause we traded for Hanley and had Cabrera, Uggla, and Jacobs round the infield. Ellsbury has put up only 2011 as a good year, but yes, I'd be fine having him. Buchholz, see Garza. No homerism here, just me looking in right before my 8 am class and doing off the top of my head thinking. As for the one post pointing out Ozuna wasn't drafted - you are correct, but the others I listed were drafted, and they at least found Ozuna, so the point is barely thrown off.
February 25, 201313 yr How sad, I actually appreciated the letter and appreciated him finally saying something, but its sad how no matter what he does, its automatically taken negatively. At this point, Loria can walk on water and people would complain that he can't swim.
February 25, 201313 yr The one thing I can't stand about Loria and Samson is that they continually repeat that not enough fans came last year so the amount of money we're spending is based off that. Well F Them! The reason fans didn't come out last year is because you went and paid a bunch of LOSERS! if you had bought players that were actually WINNING, we'd go
February 25, 201313 yr The one thing I can't stand about Loria and Samson is that they continually repeat that not enough fans came last year so the amount of money we're spending is based off that. Well F Them! The reason fans didn't come out last year is because you went and paid a bunch of LOSERS! if you had bought players that were actually WINNING, we'd go Self fulfilling prophecy.
February 25, 201313 yr The one thing I can't stand about Loria and Samson is that they continually repeat that not enough fans came last year so the amount of money we're spending is based off that. Well F Them! The reason fans didn't come out last year is because you went and paid a bunch of LOSERS! if you had bought players that were actually WINNING, we'd go And now that they're replacing those losers people aren't happy either. So what now? And the general public doesn't understand that those players were losers. They go by name value, there's still many in the media and general public saying we gave up 5 all stars, including Buck, a decent but replaceable Bonfacio, an overpaid Buerhle, and an underperforming JJ. Reyes is the only one I'd say was a legit star here. The casual baseball fan in Miami is so stupid, they'd go crazy if we signed A-Rod, Randy Johnson, and Greg Maddux tomorrow.
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