gizmo Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The stretch of draft busts didn't help either. That has probably hurt us more than the bad trades over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I'm not sure how the Marlins work with that philosophy if they rarely buy out arbitration. And when they do, they do it later than the Rays would. They bought out arb and a few FA years with a handful of players, Hanley, JJ, Ricky, etc. They just take WAY too long to buy out players, and because they wait too long, they can't do it with enough players to keep the core around. Then they're forced to trade away players too soon. So, like I said, they TRY to use that philosophy... but as we both agree, they wait way too long. I think that's what needs to change. As of this off-season, if we were Tampa, Giancarlo, Jose, Christian, and LoMo would all have long term deals. Is there a great deal of risk signing players that soon? YES. Does it pay off? More often then not, I think it does. Instead of risking $100 Million on a 29-year-old (Jose Reyes, for example) you're risking, say, $44 Million (Evan Longoria's original extension) on a 23-year-old. It's going to be difficult to lock up Fernandez considering Boras is his agent. He did mention he would be interested in a long term deal that runs 12 years long for his younger clients but I'm not sure if he was serious there. Fortunately for us, Boras works for Fernandez and not the other way around. I did read something that Boras said, a long while back, if his clients want to sign long term deals he will not stand in their way and it's ultimately their decisions and not his. I have a feeling the Marlins and Jose will come to an agreement much sooner than they did with Giancarlo. The stretch of draft busts didn't help either. *Cough* 2005 *Cough* If that's true that's very encouraging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The way to sign free agents is the way Boston did it last offseason. I agree but I think it's pretty hard to do what they did most offseasons. It's hard to get quality talent to agree to short term contracts in the current market. I agree. The talent available also isn't always the same every offseason. Also, it's nice that it all worked out for them. Although, it's not shocking that some of their moves did work out. I remember wanting Koji Uehara when I thought the Marlins were going to re-invest money in the team. I said so on this board. Nobody cares about this, but I figured that I wanted some attention... Back to the topic, all of these ridiculous long-term contracts for top free agents always fail. Targeting mid-market players is the way to go if we ever land a free agent again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanleyDavidson Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Don't remind me of the drafts.. we passed up on Heyward and Trout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The way to sign free agents is the way Boston did it last offseason. I agree but I think it's pretty hard to do what they did most offseasons. It's hard to get quality talent to agree to short term contracts in the current market. I agree. The talent available also isn't always the same every offseason. Also, it's nice that it all worked out for them. Although, it's not shocking that some of their moves did work out. I remember wanting Koji Uehara when I thought the Marlins were going to re-invest money in the team. I said so on this board. Nobody cares about this, but I figured that I wanted some attention... Back to the topic, all of these ridiculous long-term contracts for top free agents always fail. Targeting mid-market players is the way to go if we ever land a free agent again. I agree. There are quality free agents to sign this off season. Stop gaps that could help us at SS and 3B. Although I'm saying this without knowing what they're contract demands are. But I think players like Zobrist, Infante, Escobar, etc. could help us out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Don't remind me of the drafts.. we passed up on Heyward and Trout. So did 21 other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Don't remind me of the drafts.. we passed up on Heyward and Trout. And Shelby Miller. Not sure we can pin Heyward on Miami, though. If I'm not mistaken he wouldn't play for anyone but Atlanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The way to sign free agents is the way Boston did it last offseason. I agree but I think it's pretty hard to do what they did most offseasons. It's hard to get quality talent to agree to short term contracts in the current market.I agree. The talent available also isn't always the same every offseason. Also, it's nice that it all worked out for them. Although, it's not shocking that some of their moves did work out. I remember wanting Koji Uehara when I thought the Marlins were going to re-invest money in the team. I said so on this board. Nobody cares about this, but I figured that I wanted some attention... Back to the topic, all of these ridiculous long-term contracts for top free agents always fail. Targeting mid-market players is the way to go if we ever land a free agent again. I agree. There are quality free agents to sign this off season. Stop gaps that could help us at SS and 3B. Although I'm saying this without knowing what they're contract demands are. But I think players like Zobrist, Infante, Escobar, etc. could help us out. Zobrist has team options for 14 and 15, I doubt they let him go. Infante and Escobar, however, wouldn't be too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The stretch of draft busts didn't help either. That has probably hurt us more than the bad trades over time. I think this is true, but the bad trades are more revealing of how idiotic the FO can be. Drafts can be a crapshoot to a degree but more importantly the Marlins have traditionally been cheap with their signing bonuses. However, many of the trades just show how dumb Loria/Beinfest are even if the moves don't have really severe consequences. The Carlos Lee trade was one of the dumbest moves made in franchise history and really shows the FO's backwards thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The way to sign free agents is the way Boston did it last offseason. I agree but I think it's pretty hard to do what they did most offseasons. It's hard to get quality talent to agree to short term contracts in the current market.I agree. The talent available also isn't always the same every offseason. Also, it's nice that it all worked out for them. Although, it's not shocking that some of their moves did work out. I remember wanting Koji Uehara when I thought the Marlins were going to re-invest money in the team. I said so on this board. Nobody cares about this, but I figured that I wanted some attention... Back to the topic, all of these ridiculous long-term contracts for top free agents always fail. Targeting mid-market players is the way to go if we ever land a free agent again. I agree. There are quality free agents to sign this off season. Stop gaps that could help us at SS and 3B. Although I'm saying this without knowing what they're contract demands are. But I think players like Zobrist, Infante, Escobar, etc. could help us out. Zobrist has team options for 14 and 15, I doubt they let him go. Infante and Escobar, however, wouldn't be too bad. So does Escobar. There are other options. They were just names that I remembered immediately. It also depends on what the team thinks about second base. I imagine they are high on Dietrich so they might give him the starting position next season. If not, there are candidates for that position, too. The options are there. They just have to sign them rather than signing guys like Polanco and Pierre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Don't remind me of the drafts.. we passed up on Heyward and Trout. And Shelby Miller. Not sure we can pin Heyward on Miami, though. If I'm not mistaken he wouldn't play for anyone but Atlanta. I bet a lot of that has to do with money. The Marlins (well, mostly Loria) are do dumb in their thinking that they'd rather spend $2-3 million on a shitty veteran player like Wes Helms or Placido Polanco than invest it on a draft pick who is more likely to pan out and potentially give the club multiple seasons of productive club-controlled performance. If I were a GM, I'd spend more money in the draft to get best player available, begin buying out arbitration for guys like Fernandez and Stanton after the 1st/2nd year of play, and resist all of these mega 7-10 year deals. Fill the rest of the roster with smaller free agent contracts--like 1-3 year deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Don't remind me of the drafts.. we passed up on Heyward and Trout. And Shelby Miller. Not sure we can pin Heyward on Miami, though. If I'm not mistaken he wouldn't play for anyone but Atlanta. I bet a lot of that has to do with money. The Marlins (well, mostly Loria) are do dumb in their thinking that they'd rather spend $2-3 million on a sh*tty veteran player like Wes Helms or Placido Polanco than invest it on a draft pick who is more likely to pan out and potentially give the club multiple seasons of productive club-controlled performance. If I were a GM, I'd spend more money in the draft to get best player available, begin buying out arbitration for guys like Fernandez and Stanton after the 1st/2nd year of play, and resist all of these mega 7-10 year deals. Fill the rest of the roster with smaller free agent contracts--like 1-3 year deals. I know the Shelby Miller pick had to do with money. His signing bonus wasn't even that much higher than Chad James's signing bonus. I agree. That is the ideal way to build a club, IMO. You always see the longer term contracts back firing on teams, not sure why teams keep falling into that trap. Also, I wish the Marlins were more active in international signings. Doesn't have to be big name guys like Cespedes and Abreau. There's more talent out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 I do agree about the international signings as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikol87 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The stretch of draft busts didn't help either. That has probably hurt us more than the bad trades over time. I think this is true, but the bad trades are more revealing of how idiotic the FO can be. Drafts can be a crapshoot to a degree but more importantly the Marlins have traditionally been cheap with their signing bonuses. However, many of the trades just show how dumb Loria/Beinfest are even if the moves don't have really severe consequences. The Carlos Lee trade was one of the dumbest moves made in franchise history and really shows the FO's backwards thinking. And Dominguez, as bad as his OBP is, has 1 or 2 WAR, depending on the site you use. Sure beats the refuse we currently have at third base, and MD still has some potential for development. I shudder whenever I think about that senseless, awful trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofthefish Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The stretch of draft busts didn't help either. That has probably hurt us more than the bad trades over time.I think this is true, but the bad trades are more revealing of how idiotic the FO can be. Drafts can be a crapshoot to a degree but more importantly the Marlins have traditionally been cheap with their signing bonuses. However, many of the trades just show how dumb Loria/Beinfest are even if the moves don't have really severe consequences. The Carlos Lee trade was one of the dumbest moves made in franchise history and really shows the FO's backwards thinking. And Dominguez, as bad as his OBP is, has 1 or 2 WAR, depending on the site you use. Sure beats the refuse we currently have at third base, and MD still has some potential for development. I shudder whenever I think about that senseless, awful trade. That goes back to the FO sticking with a plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 I agree with the thread title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 I am not sure what player named Escobar people would want on the Marlins. Yunel and Alcides, whichever it is, are both awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 How is Yunel Escobar awful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 I am not sure what player named Escobar people would want on the Marlins. Yunel and Alcides, whichever it is, are both awful. Just because you don't like Yunel Escobar, that doesn't mean that he is awful. It's quite the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollythewog Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 How is Yunel Escobar awful? He's actually having a great year. Better than any of the garbage we put out at 3b or ss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 I remember most people here happy to see him go... Most people here liked the Carlos Lee trade at the time too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 I remember most people here happy to see him go... Still happy to see him gone. Dietrich will be a fine second baseman for much longer than the one year Escobar would've been here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcFishFan Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I remember most people here happy to see him go... Most people here liked the Carlos Lee trade at the time too.most people had given up on the promise of matty dominguez. He's got an OPS+ of only 90 this year, but has 20 dingers and plays plus d at third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenhat Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 If we hadn't traded Miggy he would have just hung on until he reached FA, and then we would have gotten zilch for him. He made it very obvious he wasn't going to be staying here long term, the $$$ just wasn't there for him. I don't know why people opt to ignore that. Bad stadium deal and no butts in the seats. The mantra back then......."Money coming in will equal money going out." The money wasn't there and he wanted the big payday. Damn that would have sucked to get zilch for him. I wonder what that would have felt like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcFishFan Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 We still have Zach Cox (via Edward Mujica via Cameron Maybin via Miguel Cabrera). We also have Ryan Webb. Much better than Clayton Kershaw and Matt Kemp. Who needs that talent anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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