October 1, 201411 yr It might as well be. Eovaldi has quite a bit of trade value yet he sucks every bit as much as Hand. Both can be dominant and both can get hit hard. I can't wrap my head around why you guys seem to think one is worth so much more than the other. It's a fallacy.
October 1, 201411 yr It's mostly about potential and not past results. While Hand and Eovaldi may have similar current numbers, other teams will see a much brighter future for Eovaldi, while Hand has probably already had his best season.
October 1, 201411 yr It's mostly about potential and not past results. While Hand and Eovaldi may have similar current numbers, other teams will see a much brighter future for Eovaldi, while Hand has probably already had his best season. And I have to disagree entirely. Hand is a low/mid 90's lefty with movement. He has a very good curve, rated as the best in our organization 3 times by BA, and a change that has become a pretty good pitch. And this year he took a much needed step forward with his control. Stuff has never been a question with Hand, his stuff is very good, the issue was always command. I think we have only seen the beginning from him. Or he could suck, but he continues to improve and is moving forward. Eovaldi on the other hand has taken a step back. He has good stuff and throws strikes, yet has zero command of the strike zone. He walks few, K's few, and gets constantly roughed up because he throws too many flat fastballs and sliders that miss right over the plate. Hand took a while to get and stay here, but his stock is on the rise after a very successful run in the rotation after the AS break. Eovaldi has been here a while and yet he continues to fail to live up to the potential that excites.
October 1, 201411 yr It might as well be. Eovaldi has quite a bit of trade value yet he sucks every bit as much as Hand. Both can be dominant and both can get hit hard. I can't wrap my head around why you guys seem to think one is worth so much more than the other. It's a fallacy. How can you even begin to say this? So Eovaldi walked 43 batters. Hand walked 39. Eovaldi struck out 142 batters. Hand struck out 67. See any difference so far? Lets explore further. Hand had a BABIP of .287 about .010 below the league average. Eovaldi had a BABIP of .323. About .030 above the league average. Eovaldi gave up 14 HR over 199.66 innings. Hand gave up 10 HR over 111 innings. Eovaldi and Brad hand have the same SLG against. Yet the batting average against was about .024 points higher against Eovaldi. My point here is that Hand was significantly worse than Eovaldi. Eovaldi was just unlucky. Luck does not ever equal skill.
October 1, 201411 yr How can you even begin to say this? So Eovaldi walked 43 batters. Hand walked 39. Eovaldi struck out 142 batters. Hand struck out 67. See any difference so far? Lets explore further. Hand had a BABIP of .287 about .010 below the league average. Eovaldi had a BABIP of .323. About .030 above the league average. Eovaldi gave up 14 HR over 199.66 innings. Hand gave up 10 HR over 111 innings. Eovaldi and Brad hand have the same SLG against. Yet the batting average against was about .024 points higher against Eovaldi. My point here is that Hand was significantly worse than Eovaldi. Eovaldi was just unlucky. Luck does not ever equal skill. See? Exactly the same! I don't know why we even try with him anymore. Why DFA Hand? DFA Eovaldi! I mean seriously. Wild Card for President! He knows what he is talking about. Shut the fuck up, Wild Card, just stop talking about baseball. Alright, I'll stop now. Wild blue is kinda hot, though.
October 1, 201411 yr And I have to disagree entirely. Hand is a low/mid 90's lefty with movement. He has a very good curve, rated as the best in our organization 3 times by BA, and a change that has become a pretty good pitch. And this year he took a much needed step forward with his control. Stuff has never been a question with Hand, his stuff is very good, the issue was always command. I think we have only seen the beginning from him. Or he could suck, but he continues to improve and is moving forward. Eovaldi on the other hand has taken a step back. He has good stuff and throws strikes, yet has zero command of the strike zone. He walks few, K's few, and gets constantly roughed up because he throws too many flat fastballs and sliders that miss right over the plate. Hand took a while to get and stay here, but his stock is on the rise after a very successful run in the rotation after the AS break. Eovaldi has been here a while and yet he continues to fail to live up to the potential that excites. So I actually am going to kind of agree with you. Mind you kind of. Eovaldi does have a problem that isn't connected to luck and does effect both strikeouts and XBH against. And that is his ability to throw his fastball chaser. I noticed it the other day he has a highly abnormal ISO in the first square above the zone near eye level. This is something that he does do bad. Instead of getting the high fastball where the batter cannot hit it. He places it in such a spot so the batter continually gets good contact. I'm convinced if he stops using his fastball in that spot he would overnight become a significantly better pitcher. This has nothing to do with how bad Hand sucks. This was just an interesting things I found looking around. Thought it would cause some discussion.
October 1, 201411 yr How do you figure? Eovaldi has been "promising" for 3+ years now and hasn't amounted to shit. Hand got his first real opportunity in the majors and went toe to toe with Nate every step of the way. Eovaldi in 33 Starts: 4.37 ERA, .282 BAA, 1.33 WHIP Hand in 16 Starts: 4.33 ERA, .267 BAA, 1.32 WHIP Eovaldi has better velocity and better control, Hand has better stuff and is left-handed. Both are almost the exact same age, literally within 30 days. The big difference in value here? Eovaldi is arb eligible NOW and will be eligible for FA after the 2018 season. Hand is not arb eligible until 2017 and not eligible for FA until 2020. So, I have to disagree here, Eovaldi may be more established but when you factor in performance and club control, they probably have very similar value. Look at the advanced numbers now, and see what happens. Not to mention that despite age/service time, Eovaldi also has better stuff. This isn't close. Hand's trade value is similar to Turner's, not Eovaldi's.
October 1, 201411 yr Look at the advanced numbers now, and see what happens. Not to mention that despite age/service time, Eovaldi also has better stuff. This isn't close. Hand's trade value is similar to Turner's, not Eovaldi's. I think Hand has better stuff personally. Their career BAA numbers, both minor and major league, indicate Eovaldi is much easier to hit. And Hand has a track record of being a strike out pitcher with three consecutive seasons in NO with K/9 between 8-9, where Eovaldi has posted a K/9 over 8 just ONCE in his entire professional career (AA in 2012). Hand throws a fastball, curve, slider, and change ALL with movement. Eovaldi throws a high velocity fastball straight as an arrow, a curve and slider that look good half the time and terrible the other half, and an improving change up that could make him better but isn't thrown often enough. Neither of them is particularly exciting to me because of their faults, but for you guys to believe Eovaldi is so superior makes me believe you guys are overrating him. And even still, considering what we were able to get for Cosart, I think they both have good value at this moment.
October 1, 201411 yr How do you figure? Eovaldi has been "promising" for 3+ years now and hasn't amounted to shit. Hand got his first real opportunity in the majors and went toe to toe with Nate every step of the way. Eovaldi in 33 Starts: 4.37 ERA, .282 BAA, 1.33 WHIP Hand in 16 Starts: 4.33 ERA, .267 BAA, 1.32 WHIP Eovaldi has better velocity and better control, Hand has better stuff and is left-handed. Both are almost the exact same age, literally within 30 days. The big difference in value here? Eovaldi is arb eligible NOW and will be eligible for FA after the 2018 season. Hand is not arb eligible until 2017 and not eligible for FA until 2020. So, I have to disagree here, Eovaldi may be more established but when you factor in performance and club control, they probably have very similar value.
October 1, 201411 yr I mean I know it sounds like hyperbole but in full honesty I have never met a person who knows as little about baseball as Wild Card.
October 1, 201411 yr I mean I know it sounds like hyperbole but in full honesty I have never met a person who knows as little about baseball as Wild Card. I think the national broadcast assumes that we are all at Wild Cards level of knowledge.
October 1, 201411 yr I mean I know it sounds like hyperbole but in full honesty I have never met a person who knows as little about baseball as Wild Card. Despite wild card often going wild card on us (wild card gonna wild card), I do think you go a little too hard on him Spike. Let's face it, the board would not be nearly as good without him here. However, Godzilla face palm away.
October 2, 201411 yr All I've heard is I'm gonna wild card. I haven't read anyone present a debate with anything other than their opinion that Eovaldi has good stuff. Which even that should be up for debate.
October 2, 201411 yr All I've heard is I'm gonna wild card. I haven't read anyone present a debate with anything other than their opinion that Eovaldi has good stuff. Which even that should be up for debate. okay. I haven't mentioned Eovaldi's stuff once. I've only mentioned stats. Not luck based ones. and you still don't seem to get it.
October 2, 201411 yr You (WC) also basically said Turner is almost as good as Eovaldi, clearly not the case. "Turner had trade value, as does Hand, who is almost as good as Eovaldi." So, through association ... yeah.
October 2, 201411 yr The funny thing about all of this is if you would just agree that Eovaldi was at least one of the best 3 pitchers on the staff. And Hand and Turner are worth significantly less than him. We would just drop it.
October 2, 201411 yr I have to agree with Erick..as much as I hate to say it, Erick may just hate that we agree as much as I do Hand really does not really have much trade value, although I really like what I see in him. Next year will be key for him. He can become a solid starter for us. Eovaldi will make an excellent 4th starter next season. I don't think his inconsistencies on the mound came from a lack of stuff or his fastball being too straight. It seemed to be because of lack of maturity. His problems were more inside his head, leading to loss of composure on the mound. He has shown he can often be overpowering. He may benefit from a yoga class in the off-season or making a pilgrimage to the Dalai Lama. He looks to have excellent stuff overall. I am positive he will be just fine. The problem next season will arrive when Heaney makes his way in the rotation. I would say Hand would be the odd man out but if he is pitching better than Eovaldi, then having 2 lefties in the rotation is nice also. I guess we have to just wait and see
October 2, 201411 yr okay. I haven't mentioned Eovaldi's stuff once. I've only mentioned stats. Not luck based ones. and you still don't seem to get it. You mentioned BB and K numbers and that was it. Hardly disproving my comments.
October 2, 201411 yr You (WC) also basically said Turner is almost as good as Eovaldi, clearly not the case. "Turner had trade value, as does Hand, who is almost as good as Eovaldi." So, through association ... yeah. Hand and Eovaldi both likely have a shit load more value than Turner.
October 2, 201411 yr Oh, good, glad we got that cleared up, at least. *phew* Now, let's get one other thing cleared. Eovaldi > Hand Source: this thread
October 2, 201411 yr Look on the bright side, at least this topic isn't as bad as the Derek Dietrich ones we had earlier in the season. No one is going to change anyone's mind when it comes to 'stuff.' (for the record, I think Eovaldi >>>> Hand)
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