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Just now, SonOfJack said:

Those of us who were big baseball fans during the 1994 strike remember it well. MLB didn't recover so quickly. This could end up worse.

I was only three when that happened and literally hadn't heard of baseball until the Marlins were in the World Series (when I was 6). The next I remember of it was the 1998 home run chase. After that I basically knew one baseball name - Mike Piazza. Until 2003.

This game has been a huge part of my life for close to 20 years now. I know it's been that for longer for some of us here, yours included since you mention the 94 strike being remembered well.

I'm truly not certain what to say at this point. It's a lost season. I'd rather they have just said in March, "hey we're realistically not going to be able to play based on projections of this virus but if things change we'll start talking." Again keeping all this behind closed doors would have been best for the league. They'd have reached a deal. But no, one side had to leak and it became a pissing match.

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And neither side gives a flying fuck about the sport or the public or the fans. 

Its all about how rich either side can get.

Clowns.

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I'd like to see the owners do collegiate invitationals through the rest of the "regular" season using the big league ballparks.  ESPN & regional networks would undoubtedly pick it up.

We would get baseball, the amateurs could continue to develop, and the MLBPA would learn they can be done without if necessary.

It may not generate the revenue that MLB does, but it would be a good enough placeholder to allow egos to simmer down.

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I was pretty pro owner about this up until the other day. Anything less than 81 games doesn’t mean a whole lot to me. Mlb and the players have done fucked themselves over good this time. 

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37 minutes ago, cyoung said:

To be fair, Loria was irresponsible as hell.

Wolfe's point is still right though, that even the teams with the worst revenue streams make money and there's no reason for the owners to be acting like they're so poor. 

I don't really care about the 2020 season anymore my only real concern with baseball now is how this season will affect the Marlins rebuild because it finally felt like it was going in the right direction and how this lost season and this pandemic will affect the rebuild down the line is still a mystery. Fingers crossed that the only real effect is a delay in time/years and not much deeper than that. 

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For the record, I'm pro players here but they're not totally free of some blame here either. With that said the owners seem to be the greediest ones here and moronic Manfred is clearly on the owners side and he knows absolutely nothing so I'll gonna oppose that idiot every day of the week and twice on Sundays. 

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2 hours ago, cyoung said:

I'd like to see the owners do collegiate invitationals through the rest of the "regular" season using the big league ballparks.  ESPN & regional networks would undoubtedly pick it up.

We would get baseball, the amateurs could continue to develop, and the MLBPA would learn they can be done without if necessary.

It may not generate the revenue that MLB does, but it would be a good enough placeholder to allow egos to simmer down.

Meh, this does nothing for me - I don't watch college baseball, and I'm not itching for any random sort of baseball just to see baseball.  This would be the same as KBO baseball for me, as in who cares?  I want to see Marlins baseball.

2 hours ago, AeroFishOne said:

I was pretty pro owner about this up until the other day. Anything less than 81 games doesn’t mean a whole lot to me. Mlb and the players have done fucked themselves over good this time. 

I agree - I was of the opinion that you could do prorated up to a certain point, and then the players could cut a bit less than full prorated pay and be done.  

But with them presenting the same percentage of pay 3 different ways, and wanting to limit it to 50 games or whatever now, it just strikes me as they're not even trying.  That said, the union isn't either - it's full prorated or nothing.  Both sides need to show a willingness to compromise for the good of the sport, which is something I think both sides aren't seeing.  This is going to cause a lot of damage to the sport, IMO.

Instead of it being a feel good story of MLB being the first sport back, everyone watching it, etc., now it's "MLB continues to bicker with MLBPA, season in jeopardy, etc"

2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

For the record, I'm pro players here but they're not totally free of some blame here either. With that said the owners seem to be the greediest ones here and moronic Manfred is clearly on the owners side and he knows absolutely nothing so I'll gonna oppose that idiot every day of the week and twice on Sundays. 

Manfred needs to go - I almost wonder if he's pushing the owners to hold out, with the way he wants to drastically change things in the sport.

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This whole thing especially the 100% promise from Manfred highlights just how F’ing terrible he is. One of Samson’s podcast had him mentioning that one of his greatest achievements was getting Manfred elected. I really want to know what the payoff was for the Marlins to do that because they had to have gotten something out of pushing Manfred so hard when he’s such an imbecile. If they don’t figure this shit out which I doubt they do, they really need to get started on a CBA agreement.

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Manfred needs to go.

They should just give the players what they want and HOPE that there's no strike after the 2021 season.

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52 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Manfred needs to go.

They should just give the players what they want and HOPE that there's no strike after the 2021 season.

I completely agree that Manfred needs to go.  I didn't like him at all before this - I especially don't now.

I disagree with giving the players what they want though.  No business owner in their right mind is going to operate at a loss, while paying exorbitant wages.  They're essentially trying to bring in as much revenue as possible, while asking the employees to take a pay cut, in order to tread water this year.  The players are not operating the business. They are not losing by not getting paid this year, they just aren't profiting.  The owners are losing this year whether the season happens or not - they are just trying to find a way to minimize the losses.

So as a player, do you play a half season for a reduced, but still very healthy salary, while the owner does his best to break even for the year?  Or do you demand a full salary, but get none - and the owners just decide to eat the smaller loss than paying thr full player salary?

A win for everybody this year is the players playing for a reduced salary, and the owners breaking even.  It may not sound like that's a win, but that's the nature of this season.

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The league as a whole has had record revenue 17 years in a row. They're in the 11 figure range the last three years. Payrolls on average were down the last two years.

Owners could have taken a short term loss to get a long term gain. They prefer to not do that.

The players, sure, they could have taken a little less perhaps, but they've conceded so much to MLB over the last two CBAs that it wasn't worth it this time.

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14 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Manfred needs to go - I almost wonder if he's pushing the owners to hold out, with the way he wants to drastically change things in the sport.

Manfred works for the owners, not the other way around. 

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a 50 game season or whatever it was is stupid.  I'm pretty sure players wouldn't even consider the World Series winning team to be a the true champ considering all it would take to get to the playoffs in that short of a season is one good hot streak. There's no real grind to it like a normal season. I still feel as if the players have plenty of blame in this as well though for refusing to budge off their full pro-rated salary demands when there is likely to be zero fans in the stands - I don't blame the owners one bit for not wanting to pay essentially full salaries on a per-game basis. 

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The players Association had a great chance to actually make a positive impact in any real negotiations but they refused to do so.

The owners had an opporutunity to really grow this game by being innovative, being the first sport back and having a captioned bored audience for a good 4-6 weeks, but they refused to do so.

Total clown show in all ways.  

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9 hours ago, cyoung said:

I completely agree that Manfred needs to go.  I didn't like him at all before this - I especially don't now.

I disagree with giving the players what they want though.  No business owner in their right mind is going to operate at a loss, while paying exorbitant wages.  They're essentially trying to bring in as much revenue as possible, while asking the employees to take a pay cut, in order to tread water this year.  The players are not operating the business. They are not losing by not getting paid this year, they just aren't profiting.  The owners are losing this year whether the season happens or not - they are just trying to find a way to minimize the losses.

So as a player, do you play a half season for a reduced, but still very healthy salary, while the owner does his best to break even for the year?  Or do you demand a full salary, but get none - and the owners just decide to eat the smaller loss than paying thr full player salary?

A win for everybody this year is the players playing for a reduced salary, and the owners breaking even.  It may not sound like that's a win, but that's the nature of this season.

The players aren't asking for full salaries.  They're asking for prorated salaries - play 72 games, get payed for whatever percentage of 162 games 72 games is.

I agree the union should come down from full prorated......I've been saying for a while, the owners should up their offer, and the union lower their demands, but at this point, nothing is happening, and we're on a path to have NO baseball quickly.  In order to save some sort of season, and not cause long term damage to the sport, the league needs to at minimum get much closer to full prorated salaries.

 

5 hours ago, GuitarPik said:

Manfred works for the owners, not the other way around. 

I know that.

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48 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

The players aren't asking for full salaries.  They're asking for prorated salaries - play 72 games, get payed for whatever percentage of 162 games 72 games is.

I agree the union should come down from full prorated......I've been saying for a while, the owners should up their offer, and the union lower their demands, but at this point, nothing is happening, and we're on a path to have NO baseball quickly.  In order to save some sort of season, and not cause long term damage to the sport, the league needs to at minimum get much closer to full prorated salaries.

 

I know that.

Then what makes you think the next commisioner will be any different? Manfred is just doing their bidding. 

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45 minutes ago, GuitarPik said:

Then what makes you think the next commisioner will be any different? Manfred is just doing their bidding. 

Point being, maybe they'll realize this absolute hardline stance (on both sides) is damaging to the sport.

4 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

How did Manfred even get to be commissioner? Nobody realized what an idiot he was before this?

I think he was the lead negotiator for MLB.  Which is why it makes even less sense that they aren't actually negotiationg.

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