17 minutes ago, gizmo said:

Every gesture matters, no matter how grand or small.

Kaepernick took a knee 4 years ago. Today entire leagues stop play for a couple of days during the playoffs. Shit like this gains momentum and grows in scale.

And what's changed?

Just now, Rydawg said:

And what's changed?

It's truly unfortunate that it's even a question.

And an even more unfortunate answer ... not much.

10 minutes ago, Rydawg said:

And what's changed?

So anything that doesn't bring immediate change is not worth doing? We don't know what might change. Maybe something, maybe nothing. Ask yourself this, would these strikes today happen at all if not for something Kaepernick did 4 years ago?

And just because something doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean that it's not important to others.

 

16 minutes ago, Rydawg said:

And what's changed?

I consider myself a student or perhaps fan of Rev. Dr. King, and the answer to the question "what's changed" in the context of his work: From 1955 (when Rosa Parks got kicked off that bus) to August 5th, 1965 was "nothing." Or maybe "things got worse."

But on 1965, Pres. Johnson signed into law the Voting Rights Act which gave de facto voting rights to black and brown folks all over the country for the first time in America's history. That was a gosh darn big change. But there were 10 years of frustration and symbolic gestures and protests forming the rampart across that wall.

These little gestures, these protests and boycotts and posts, they add up.

44 minutes ago, Michael said:

The divide and animosity is happening regardless. So what else changes if they don't do this, honestly?

I respect your opinion, fully. You have the right to it, and I understand.

SB's point is valid. These athletes have a major platform and are choosing to use it. As I mentioned earlier, this is the athlete's way of saying, "hey, pay attention."

Michael, I respect yours and all others opinions as well. 

I agree that these athletes have a major platform.  I disagree that this will make anyone pay attention.  I mean, it's all over TV and social media so you'd have to be living in a cave to not already be paying attention.

In my opinion all they are doing is alienating the people that don't agree with them. 

Anyway, they'll play again tomorrow and we will all move on with our lives.

Why not not play yesterday and play double-header today ?

Edited August 28, 20205 yr by taiwanmarlin

1 minute ago, taiwanmarlin said:

Why not not play yesterday and play double-header today ?

We've got enough double headers already. Let's be real.

37 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

But one of their biggest platforms is the field so using it to deliver a message helps. Nobody pays attention if they just make a donation or do some nice things on an off day. People notice this type of action. 

Every kid wants to hang out with a major league ballplayer.  There's a mentoring opportunity.  Their paychecks provide means of creating jobs in underprivileged communities - jobs get rid of a lot of problems.

By getting hands dirty, I mean investing time & effort into a community, not just throwing money at a problem, and hoping it sorts itself out.

Investing in a community takes time, and sound investments don't yield a return immediately.  This isn't going to go away overnight.

Regardless of how you view this issue, anybody that thinks it's a one-sided issue is fooling themselves.  It's also going to stick around longer if we continue to allow it to be exploited for political gain.

My issue with your statement is that this isn't a productive action.  It's worthless at best, but likely counterproductive.

5 minutes ago, Rydawg said:

I disagree that this will make anyone pay attention.  I mean, it's all over TV and social media so you'd have to be living in a cave to not already be paying attention.

Not everyone pays attention to things that don't directly bother or affect them. 

13 minutes ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

I consider myself a student or perhaps fan of Rev. Dr. King, and the answer to the question "what's changed" in the context of his work: From 1955 (when Rosa Parks got kicked off that bus) to August 5th, 1965 was "nothing." Or maybe "things got worse."

But on 1965, Pres. Johnson signed into law the Voting Rights Act which gave de facto voting rights to black and brown folks all over the country for the first time in America's history. That was a gosh darn big change. But there were 10 years of frustration and symbolic gestures and protests forming the rampart across that wall.

These little gestures, these protests and boycotts and posts, they add up.

I'm not going to disagree with anything you said about the past.  Where I will disagree is that what is going on today is not the same as what was going on in the 50's and 60s.

6 minutes ago, Rydawg said:

Michael, I respect yours and all others opinions as well. 

I agree that these athletes have a major platform.  I disagree that this will make anyone pay attention.  I mean, it's all over TV and social media so you'd have to be living in a cave to not already be paying attention.

In my opinion all they are doing is alienating the people that don't agree with them. 

Anyway, they'll play again tomorrow and we will all move on with our lives.

Perhaps "pay attention" is the wrong term here. Maybe more, "listen" would be the better-used word here. You're right, people are paying attention, whether they agree or not with everything going on. But listening rather than just getting mad, that's what needs to go down for any change to occur.

Anyway ... your last line is probably nail on the head. As it has been for some time.

1 minute ago, cyoung said:

My issue with your statement is that this isn't a productive action.  It's worthless at best, but likely counterproductive.

I do agree they need to have more productive actions, I just think those productive actions are easily ignored or overlooked. Tonight every news outlet both sports and non sports related is gonna have a story on MLB and NBA protesting. But there would be virtually zero stories on "investing in a community" even though that IS what should be done more than protesting. 

"Lewis Brinson leaves BLM shirt on home plate and walks away" will get more eyes on it than "Lewis Brinson delivers meals to impoverished communities."

1 minute ago, SilverBullet said:

"Lewis Brinson leaves BLM shirt on home plate and walks away" will get more eyes on it than "Lewis Brinson delivers meals to impoverished communities."

To your point, he's been doing that second thing for years. He does the first thing once, and SportsCenter is tweeting about it.

1 minute ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

To your point, he's been doing that second thing for years. He does the first thing once, and SportsCenter is tweeting about it.

There ya go, then.

1 hour ago, Michael said:

The divide and animosity is happening regardless. So what else changes if they don't do this, honestly?

I respect your opinion, fully. You have the right to it, and I understand.

SB's point is valid. These athletes have a major platform and are choosing to use it. As I mentioned earlier, this is the athlete's way of saying, "hey, pay attention."

Saying "Hey, pay attention" accomplishes nothing.

Investing in the communities is what makes a difference.

We are allowing ourselves to be divided.  The division is a political stunt.

I have a family member that is a police officer.  He pulled over a vehicle that was reported to be involved in a burglary attempt.  As soon as he got out of his car, one guy ran, and the other guy shot at my family member 15 times.  My family member shot him (in complete self-defense), then saved him from bleeding out.  He was a 20 y/o that had already been arrested 14 times.

The narrative would lead you to believe that cops are out to kill black people. Not only did this guy try to kill my family member for no reason other than him being a cop, his life was saved by that same cop who he just tried to kill.

This made the news one evening, and was never mentioned again. It doesn't fit the narrative.

This is a very two-sided issue.  It's not being viewed that way.  One side cannot fix this alone.

6 minutes ago, Rydawg said:

Where I will disagree is that what is going on today is not the same as what was going on in the 50's and 60s.

Yeah, it's really tough to compare the brutality the folks of the 1960's faced to anything we've seen in modern times -- except for maybe a few of the worst instances. But at the heart of the Civil Rights Movements were:

• calls for enfranchisement of black folks
• calls for just policing and laws
• calls for better social protections for the poor
• calls for school desegregation

I think just about all but the last one still pertain today. And even the last one continues to exist, even it is no longer state-mandated.

Just now, cyoung said:

Saying "Hey, pay attention" accomplishes nothing.

Investing in the communities is what makes a difference.

We are allowing ourselves to be divided.  The division is a political stunt.

I have a family member that is a police officer.  He pulled over a vehicle that was reported to be involved in a burglary attempt.  As soon as he got out of his car, one guy ran, and the other guy shot at my family member 15 times.  My family member shot him (in complete self-defense), then saved him from bleeding out.  He was a 20 y/o that had already been arrested 14 times.

The narrative would lead you to believe that cops are out to kill black people. Not only did this guy try to kill my family member for no reason other than him being a cop, his life was saved by that same cop who he just tried to kill.

This made the news one evening, and was never mentioned again. It doesn't fit the narrative.

This is a very two-sided issue.  It's not being viewed that way.  One side cannot fix this alone.

I agree with you entirely on this, and I'm glad your family member made it out of there.

Investing in communities does need to happen as well. More social workers and mental health specialists would be a great start, honestly.

6 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I do agree they need to have more productive actions, I just think those productive actions are easily ignored or overlooked. Tonight every news outlet both sports and non sports related is gonna have a story on MLB and NBA protesting. But there would be virtually zero stories on "investing in a community" even though that IS what should be done more than protesting. 

"Lewis Brinson leaves BLM shirt on home plate and walks away" will get more eyes on it than "Lewis Brinson delivers meals to impoverished communities."

It's not about making the news.  it's about making better people, and giving opportunities to people that would not have had them.  You're planting seeds, then helping them grow.  The news is irrelevant.  Half of the people are sick of hearing up about it, so they turn it off.  If you're helping underprivileged people grow, you can't turn that off - no attention or news necessary.

1 minute ago, cyoung said:

The narrative would lead you to believe that cops are out to kill black people. Not only did this guy try to kill my family member for no reason other than him being a cop, his life was saved by that same cop who he just tried to kill.

I think this may touch on a separate, but very connected issue: There's just too many guns out there. I used to be very pro-gun (I'm a heck of a shot too), but after Sandy Hook, I took a good hard look at what's going on around the world, and ain't no country got shooting issues like we do.

If regular folks don't have guns and cops don't have guns, then ain't nobody getting shot at a traffic stop -- neither cop nor citizen.

But that's a whole can of worms.

2 minutes ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

I think this may touch on a separate, but very connected issue: There's just too many guns out there. I used to be very pro-gun (I'm a heck of a shot too), but after Sandy Hook, I took a good hard look at what's going on around the world, and ain't no country got shooting issues like we do.

If regular folks don't have guns and cops don't have guns, then ain't nobody getting shot at a traffic stop -- neither cop nor citizen.

But that's a whole can of worms.

Definitely a discussion for another day. A can of worms, that would open 😂

34 minutes ago, cyoung said:

This is a very two-sided issue.  It's not being viewed that way.  One side cannot fix this alone.

You can't have both sides there to fix the issue unless there is a real conversation about the issue.

34 minutes ago, cyoung said:

It's not about making the news.  it's about making better people, and giving opportunities to people that would not have had them.  You're planting seeds, then helping them grow.  The news is irrelevant.  Half of the people are sick of hearing up about it, so they turn it off.  If you're helping underprivileged people grow, you can't turn that off - no attention or news necessary.

The news usually only stokes the flames.

55 minutes ago, cyoung said:

Saying "Hey, pay attention" accomplishes nothing.

Investing in the communities is what makes a difference.

We are allowing ourselves to be divided.  The division is a political stunt.

I have a family member that is a police officer.  He pulled over a vehicle that was reported to be involved in a burglary attempt.  As soon as he got out of his car, one guy ran, and the other guy shot at my family member 15 times.  My family member shot him (in complete self-defense), then saved him from bleeding out.  He was a 20 y/o that had already been arrested 14 times.

The narrative would lead you to believe that cops are out to kill black people. Not only did this guy try to kill my family member for no reason other than him being a cop, his life was saved by that same cop who he just tried to kill.

This made the news one evening, and was never mentioned again. It doesn't fit the narrative.

This is a very two-sided issue.  It's not being viewed that way.  One side cannot fix this alone.

I agree with all of this. My uncle was a detective for decades in NY and his son, my cousin, is a police officer currently in Miami so I agree that too much of the narrative from all of these protests is misleading and that is a problem in itself. The wrong message can easily be sent.

It "interrupts" my life but then again, that's the whole point and for athletes, interrupting your viewing for the night does get you to take actual notice.  No, not everyone is going to actually start digging into the issue that they're supporting but it doesn't need to be everyone all at once - if by some miracle it was...fantastic...but most of the time baby steps is what you're gonna get.  While supporting a community and donating time, money, effort, etc. is a great thing. It ultimately doesn't change the viewpoints of the people OUTSIDE of those communities who are often part of the problem. 

I honestly wonder if this is an unsolvable problem.  People want peaceful protests and minimal disruptions but that just hasn't worked out, because again, nobody notices.  On the other side of the coin, rioting and looting isn't going to resolve anything either but yeah, the whole quiet peaceful process just doesn't really work either - hence why I don't know if there's truly a legitimate way to resolve the issues we face as a nation.  This may honestly be the best way because it's non-violent, yet actually disrupts peoples lives and gets them to stop and discuss things with others. Those discussions are what can lead to fruitful progress.  Again, a lot of people will just be angry that their team stopped playing again but there will be a few out there that will come to the realization that we still have a massive racial inequality issue well into the 21st century that's simply not solvable by slapping a patch on your arm or clicking on the Like button for a webpage.