5 minutes ago, Michael said:

At least you haven't been accused of being that one guy lately. You know the one.

 

No not that one.

I am both Jeter and Samson, really confuses things.

2 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Another thing that could be compromise over time if they're not careful is the "work hard and winning is the only success" mentality that Jeter seemed to emphasize. Seems like something that should be commonplace for every MLB team but we've seen with past Marlins teams and some other MLB teams that a team that doesn't emphasize this can fall apart in that aspect and suddenly become a shit show. Does that change without Jeter? 

Bro Jeter changed the culture from top to bottom. He even implemented captains camp which from what I’ve always heard the players loved. So yeah, I’d say it probably is down the drain from here.

Never forget that Loria sold to Sherman because of Jeter being there. It would've been Mas instead otherwise and who knows how the team would be now.

4 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Never forget that Loria sold to Sherman because of Jeter being there. It would've been Mas instead otherwise and who knows how the team would be now.

Honestly probably still bad. Lol.

56 minutes ago, Valid said:

So is Samson blaming Jeter or Sherman?

Anyone and everyone to whoever will listen because he just likes to talk lol.

1 minute ago, rmc523 said:

Anyone and everyone to whoever will listen because he just likes to talk lol.

Nothing personal!

It is important to remember that MLB and Loria forced this Sherman/Jeter ownership group onto the Marlins.

Jeter never had any business being the CEO of a MLB team making 5 million annual salary with next to no experience running an entire organization.

This was destined to fail from the get go because more serious and local ownership groups were denied the team so MLB could tout Jeter as an owner when in reality, Jeter has nowhere near the net worth needed to buy a team.

Edited February 28, 20224 yr by jsprt14

I don't think Jeter ever had a clue what he was getting into. There had been rumblings about how off-putting and ineffective Denbo had been at his job, and he was hand picked from the Yankees to be Jeter's right hand man.

The snake oil Jeter sold MLB and Sherman has run out. To have Denbo still with more say on moves than Ng no longer made sense to anyone involved outside of Jeter and his inner circle.

Edited February 28, 20224 yr by jsprt14

1 hour ago, jsprt14 said:

I don't think Jeter ever had a clue what he was getting into. There had been rumblings about how off-putting and ineffective Denbo had been at his job, and he was hand picked from the Yankees to be Jeter's right hand man.

The snake oil Jeter sold MLB and Sherman has run out. To have Denbo still with more say on moves than Ng no longer made sense to anyone involved outside of Jeter and his inner circle.

tbh, I dont think Denbo will be around past this calendar year, might be gone long before then

What I really care wasn't Jeter with this organization or not but this team really spending big or not. 

5 hours ago, hovertical said:

Cheaper?  by a freaking country mile for sure

 

Worse in terms of talent eval, etc.?  Not so sure there.  If they had Loria's "money" they'd have JT and Marte back on this team going into the upcoming season for sure though because as cheap as he was, he was nowhere NEAR as cheap as Sherman has been.

Loria's money? All the guy ever did was sign players to backloaded contracts that he never intended to pay. Delgado? Out the door after the cheap first year. Reyes? Buehrle? Much the same. Stanton? Team sold before the real money kicked in. Even Chen wasn't getting that much before the opt out. With the Sherman group the team was never that good. Did you want them to spend a bunch of money to turn a 65 win team into a 75 win team? Or build up the core first until they are competitive and then strike at the opportune time. They clearly failed at player evaluation and development. You can't "fix" that by throwing money at it unless you have a type of revenue stream that teams like the Yankees have.

Jeter said that it was a difference in the vision for the future. Why does everyone assume that that means the "Jeter wanted to win, so they must not have?" It was reported, without evidence, that Jeter jumped ship over $15-$20 million. But, that does not make sense considering they reportedly offered Marte a multi year deal before the lockout. Very good chance that it is actually about player philosophy. We kept getting guys out of the same mold- athletic, boom-bust guys up the middle of the field. How many times did that have to fail? Considering they kept running Brinson and Isan out far past the point of recognizing that they just did not have it, the whole organization seemed pretty stubborn. Maybe Ng and Co wanted to try a different approach and Jeter was set in his ways. Ultimately, we won't know until the lockout ends. If the Marlins actually do a little spending when it does, then we will know that the story that Joel Sheman reported was bs. If they stand pat, then there is probably truth to it.

9 minutes ago, FishFan95 said:

f they stand pat, then there is probably truth to it.

Who is Pat? 

3 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Who is Pat? 

Venditte.

Duh.

2 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Who is Pat? 

He's one of the fans. If he stands up, then it means that the team did something bad. If he stays in his seat, then they did something good. Everyone knows Pat. I thought you were a fan of this team....

10 hours ago, Michael said:

Take it for what it's worth.

 

Just reread this tweet now and it's interesting. No one else has really taken the stance that this is actually a good move. What could that mean because everyone else is thinking this is fishy and not a good sign of Sherman's plans.

3 minutes ago, FishFan95 said:

He's one of the fans. If he stands up, then it means that the team did something bad. If he stays in his seat, then they did something good. Everyone knows Pat. I thought you were a fan of this team....

Sounds like a groundhog.

46 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Just reread this tweet now and it's interesting. No one else has really taken the stance that this is actually a good move. What could that mean because everyone else is thinking this is fishy and not a good sign of Sherman's plans.

Could be along the lines of what @FishFan95 said above that some wanted to try a different approach from what wasn't working bats-wise but weren't able to because of Jeter?

 

Short of more info than the generic "based on what I know", it's hard to speculate what he means there.

https://www.justbaseball.com/mlb/derek-jeters-departure-has-fans-wondering-whats-next/

You all need to read this take. If the money isn't the issue, then maybe Jeter's inexperience and relying so much on him just because he's Derek Jeter was actually holding the Marlins back.

Leighton here is going over several problems of the last few years that may go away now that Jeter is gone.

In this scenario Sherman may have asked Jeter to relinquish some of his control and that's definitely gonna be something that Jeter will consider a different "vision of the future." 

 

9 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

https://www.justbaseball.com/mlb/derek-jeters-departure-has-fans-wondering-whats-next/

You all need to read this take. If the money isn't the issue, then maybe Jeter's inexperience and relying so much on him just because he's Derek Jeter was actually holding the Marlins back. Leighton here is going over several problems of the last few years that may go away now that Jeter is gone. Heck of a read.

He brings up a lot of very good points.  We'll see if they pan out to be true or not.

-Jeter's $5 million salary, more than most of their players

-The "collaborative" front office aka the GM doesn't actually have full GM authority 

-Gary Denbo, a polarizing figure who can rub people the wrong way

-Stubbornly sticking with failing players too long (Brinson, Isan, Alfaro, etc.)

-Drafting pitching, pitching, and pitching to the point where there's almost no quality hitting prospects

-Poor minor league hitting strategies/philosophies 

-Having to concede final decisions to Jeter because he's the CEO and because he's "Derek freakin Jeter," who has no actual front office experience, which Kim Ng actually does have

...these are all things that could be pointed to as having been a hindrance at this point. Remove these things, allow Kim Ng full control, let Sherman spend to a reasonable extent, and could the Marlins actually be better, and better sooner?

 

1 hour ago, SilverBullet said:

-Jeter's $5 million salary, more than most of their players

-The "collaborative" front office aka the GM doesn't actually have full GM authority 

-Gary Denbo, a polarizing figure who can rub people the wrong way

-Stubbornly sticking with failing players too long (Brinson, Isan, Alfaro, etc.)

-Drafting pitching, pitching, and pitching to the point where there's almost no quality hitting prospects

-Poor minor league hitting strategies/philosophies 

-Having to concede final decisions to Jeter because he's the CEO and because he's "Derek freakin Jeter," who has no actual front office experience, which Kim Ng actually does have

...these are all things that could be pointed to as having been a hindrance at this point. Remove these things, allow Kim Ng full control, let Sherman spend to a reasonable extent, and could the Marlins actually be better, and better sooner?

 

 

You touched on it here, but to expand on that he also mentioned lack of data and info for hitters.

An antiquated approach to scouting and development has not helped the Marlins in their lack of ability to both identify and develop bats. Simply put, the Marlins are behind when it comes to the data and support that they provide their hitters.

“Knowing what some other organizations had at their disposal compared to us was frustrating,” one former Marlins farmhand told Just Baseball. “We felt like we were at a disadvantage.”

3 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

-Jeter's $5 million salary, more than most of their players

-The "collaborative" front office aka the GM doesn't actually have full GM authority 

-Gary Denbo, a polarizing figure who can rub people the wrong way

-Stubbornly sticking with failing players too long (Brinson, Isan, Alfaro, etc.)

-Drafting pitching, pitching, and pitching to the point where there's almost no quality hitting prospects

-Poor minor league hitting strategies/philosophies 

-Having to concede final decisions to Jeter because he's the CEO and because he's "Derek freakin Jeter," who has no actual front office experience, which Kim Ng actually does have

...these are all things that could be pointed to as having been a hindrance at this point. Remove these things, allow Kim Ng full control, let Sherman spend to a reasonable extent, and could the Marlins actually be better, and better sooner?

 

the problem really started with Mike Hill toward the end, though I assume driven largely by Denbo, who was looking to acquire bats that had high power potential and literally igorning all the other aspects of a hitter, which got you the likes of Isan, Monte and Brinson.

There is a reason the Yankees didnt really fight 'too hard' to keep ole Gary to start with.  

The Marlins have gotten somewhat lucky on pitchers, but a lot of that is due to trends in the majors toward favoring guys with big giant arms.  

Remember Meyer was suppoed to be 'on the cusp' of the majors when he was drafted and yet here we are what?  2 years later and he is no closer to the majors now than he was then.  

Hopefully the last couple of drafts start to pay off, the next 1-2 years is when you 'should' start seeing some fruits of those drafts matriculating into the majors, so we will see. 

The likeliest scenario is that Jeter wants to win and believes Sherman does not. 

With that said, the news about serious discussions with Castellanos is exciting. Hopefully Jeter didn't leave because Sherman shut the door on that and any other non-bargain bin discussion.

1 hour ago, Entendu said:

The likeliest scenario is that Jeter wants to win and believes Sherman does not. 

With that said, the news about serious discussions with Castellanos is exciting. Hopefully Jeter didn't leave because Sherman shut the door on that and any other non-bargain bin discussion.

Mish is super adamant that that isn't the case. It would be awesome if Sherman gets Castellanos to sign after the lockout and that would make such a strong statement.