Just now, Das Jackson said:

I'm surprised he didn't hype it up first on his podcast

Then it wouldn't have happened! Right, Son of Jack? Who is clearly the one posting this?

Just now, Michael said:

Then it wouldn't have happened! Right, Son of Jack? Who is clearly the one posting this?

I'm so confused right there, I feel like @SilverBullet

4 hours ago, Michael said:

There was at least one deal Jeter vetoed which would have brought a huge player back (did not say who the player(s) was/were).

Saw a rumor on Twitter that it was a deal for Bryan Reynolds and that Jeter did not want to give up too many prospects for him.  Haven't seen much to confirm it.

Sounds like Jeter is sensible. 

Buying a star and prospect hoarding is exactly what we should be doing right now.

24 minutes ago, Entendu said:

Sounds like Jeter is sensible. 

Buying a star and prospect hoarding is exactly what we should be doing right now.

i hope you're being sarcastic there -  because they clearly aren't buying any stars and hoarding prospects does not make them any better when they can't score effing runs as it is. 

15 minutes ago, hovertical said:

i hope you're being sarcastic there -  because they clearly aren't buying any stars and hoarding prospects does not make them any better when they can't score effing runs as it is. 

I don't understand. Saying that this is something the Marlins should do and it being something the Marlins actually do are two different things.

You CAN build a winner without trading away your prospects, especially if your payroll is as low as the Marlins' is.

Edited March 1, 20224 yr by Entendu

2 hours ago, hovertical said:

i hope you're being sarcastic there -  because they clearly aren't buying any stars and hoarding prospects does not make them any better when they can't score effing runs as it is. 

No.  They SHOULD be spending on guys and trade where necessary/keep prospects as reinforcements or to trade for reinforcements later in the season.

But if they're not going to spend, then yeah, they should use the prospects to get players.

5 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

I also wonder if she'll still have final say once a new CEO is hired

CEOs of baseball teams usually don't have much to do with day to day baseball decisions, though.  They're usually more the overall business side.  Jeter did because he was Jeter.  So I see her having more autonomy with Jeter gone.

8 hours ago, Michael said:

There was at least one deal Jeter vetoed which would have brought a huge player back 

Prince Fielder???

2 minutes ago, Rydawg said:

Prince Fielder???

9 hours ago, Michael said:

Universal DH has, I believe, been agreed upon.

Honestly rather not spend on Castellanos and just give Cooper that spot. lol

 

EDIT - Mish's podcast, "they're not going to give Castellanos $200M, come on." OK that's that. lol

 

EDIT 2 - I'm going to listen to the podcast more than once and gather as much info as I can out of it.

To be fair, I am absolutely not in favor of giving Castellanos $200 million either, and I would actually be pretty surprised if he gets that much. He is a very good (not great) hitter who can't play the field.

Yea that's another thing, the CEO in baseball is usually irrelevant to the on field product.

I can't even name another CEO of another MLB team.

Hire a business guy with front office experience from another team and then push him to do his job in the background while Kim Ng constructs the roster.

Aside from announcing whoever their hire is, we probably shouldn't hear about the Marlins CEO ever again really.

CEO was Jeter's title to give himself the power of the principal owner without actually being the principal owner. 

Just now, SilverBullet said:

Yea that's another thing, the CEO in baseball is usually irrelevant to the on field product.

I can't even name another CEO of another MLB team.

Hire a business guy with front office experience from another team and then push him to do his job in the background while Kim Ng constructs the roster.

Aside from announcing whoever their hire is, we probably shouldn't hear about the Marlins CEO ever again really.

CEO was Jeter's title to give himself the power of the principal owner without actually being the principal owner. 

Yeah it was just because it was Derek Jeter. He could have been the CEO Bat Boy and it still would have been a thing because of the weight his name carries.

2 hours ago, Rydawg said:

Prince Fielder???

Bartolo Colon

 

On 2/28/2022 at 2:57 PM, hovertical said:

How many of you would jump ship for good or just not bother with MLB at all if they did another full rebuild?  I'll be honest in that I'd have an incredibly hard time caring about MLB again at all.  I can't get my allegiances to switch as much as i yearn to be a Rays fan instead.  I think I might just stop watching baseball altogether I guess or just follow boxscores, etc online again.  I mean with attendance in the shitter as it is - is there really an incentive to NOT keep tearing it down and just reap the collective benefits from revenue sharing, etc? 

Thats pretty much what I've done since the Jeter/Sherman teardown of 2017. I get my news and the occasional game but its not appointment viewing anymore. Between twitter and these boards, I don't have much of an appetite for anything else Marlins related.

Maybe this will lead to me feeling something for this team, but they have no hope.. and no credibility with me.

On 2/28/2022 at 3:08 PM, FishFan95 said:

Half of 20,000 is 10,000. Did it look like 20,000 fans were coming every day from 2013-2017? Honestly.

Samson recorded attendance as tickets sold, or given away. They sometimes purchased 5k seats themselves at $1 to make the attendance numbers look a little more respectable. Samson and Loria gave away tons of seats because they hoped to get a fan, or at the very least collecting $20 parking, $10 hot dog, $45 hat or something.

Jeter didn't care for that and stopped that practice. Jeter recorded attendance as people coming through the gates and tickets sold outright. He also didn't seem to give alot of comped tickets either. KInda killed the revenue stream. You have 10k empty seats, fill some of em and get atleast a little bit of money. Even if they take the bus to get there and don't purchase a single item at least its one more person who had some interest in your product.

Heck, didn't parking go from $15 most games in 2017 to $30 in 2019 or so. What is it now?

 

17 minutes ago, Piazza31 said:

Thats pretty much what I've done since the Jeter/Sherman teardown of 2017. I get my news and the occasional game but its not appointment viewing anymore. Between twitter and these boards, I don't have much of an appetite for anything else Marlins related.

Maybe this will lead to me feeling something for this team, but they have no hope.. and no credibility with me.

i feel this mentality 100%  My wife and I boycotted watching them at all the first season after the teardown.  We watched about half the games each season after that but like you, it wasn't MUST SEE TV anymore.  I didn't believe that Sherman and Jeter would be any different when their first move was to completely obliterate the roster for a team that struggles with its image of being cheap as it is.  That showed some piss poor business management.  Sure, get rid of some contracts like Stanton for instance but to try and shove everyone out the door and even getting rid of the guys like Hawk, Niner, etc. who wanted to remain around the club.  Nah. Spoke of shitty fucking business sense so that gave me no hope.  I didn't trust them then and I sure as shit don't trust them after last offseason, this limited offseason (so far) or the whole Marte debacle.

I still hope I'm wrong about the spending piece but they make Loria look like George Steinbrenner at this juncture. i'm sure many will disagree and point out x,y,z but there always seems to be some excuse not to even spend to get out of the bottom 5 in payroll or to pick up a couple bats when that's all that seems to be needed to get to the PO's. 

long rant just to say i get where you're coming from lulz

On 2/28/2022 at 5:10 PM, Valid said:

So is Samson blaming Jeter or Sherman?

He's blaming Jeter for lying to Sherman saying the team was going to be profitable and they were going to increase revenue.

Samson claims Jeter sold Sherman and the other minority owners on the fact that Loria/Samson didnt know how to run the team and had no credibility in the city to generate sponsors and revenue. He would right the financial and on field ships. First with a tear down and clearing the books. He cleared the books but the money never came in.

Pretty much Jeter thought they'd be printing money because Jeter is an owner.

2 minutes ago, Piazza31 said:

He's blaming Jeter for lying to Sherman saying the team was going to be profitable and they were going to increase revenue.

Samson claims Jeter sold Sherman and the other minority owners on the fact that Loria/Samson didnt know how to run the team and had no credibility in the city to generate sponsors and revenue. He would right the financial and on field ships. First with a tear down and clearing the books. He cleared the books but the money never came in.

Pretty much Jeter thought they'd be printing money because Jeter is an owner.

i guess we should all be happy Denbo wasn't brought in to cut the fat at least

10 minutes ago, hovertical said:

i feel this mentality 100%  My wife and I boycotted watching them at all the first season after the teardown.  We watched about half the games each season after that but like you, it wasn't MUST SEE TV anymore.  I didn't believe that Sherman and Jeter would be any different when their first move was to completely obliterate the roster for a team that struggles with its image of being cheap as it is.  That showed some piss poor business management.  Sure, get rid of some contracts like Stanton for instance but to try and shove everyone out the door and even getting rid of the guys like Hawk, Niner, etc. who wanted to remain around the club.  Nah. Spoke of shitty fucking business sense so that gave me no hope.  I didn't trust them then and I sure as shit don't trust them after last offseason, this limited offseason (so far) or the whole Marte debacle.

I still hope I'm wrong about the spending piece but they make Loria look like George Steinbrenner at this juncture. i'm sure many will disagree and point out x,y,z but there always seems to be some excuse not to even spend to get out of the bottom 5 in payroll or to pick up a couple bats when that's all that seems to be needed to get to the PO's. 

long rant just to say i get where you're coming from lulz

Exactly. The main thing about this ownership group I feel was....

1) They didn't understand what this market had been through already in 98,05 and 2012.  The bought a team with no credibility in Miami. To blow it up right away was dumb. Tell the players and fans they got one year while they "evaluate" what they bought would have been smarter.

2) They thought Jeter's name would automatically make them a contender for our entertainment dollars down here, and with businesses and sponsorships. In reality he was just another big name in a town full of em. In New York, he's DEREK FUCKIN JETER!!! OMG!!! In Miami he's Derek Jeter, just another guy.

40 minutes ago, Piazza31 said:

Samson recorded attendance as tickets sold, or given away. They sometimes purchased 5k seats themselves at $1 to make the attendance numbers look a little more respectable. Samson and Loria gave away tons of seats because they hoped to get a fan, or at the very least collecting $20 parking, $10 hot dog, $45 hat or something.

Jeter didn't care for that and stopped that practice. Jeter recorded attendance as people coming through the gates and tickets sold outright. He also didn't seem to give alot of comped tickets either. KInda killed the revenue stream. You have 10k empty seats, fill some of em and get atleast a little bit of money. Even if they take the bus to get there and don't purchase a single item at least its one more person who had some interest in your product.

Heck, didn't parking go from $15 most games in 2017 to $30 in 2019 or so. What is it now?

 

I know I stopped parking in the garages years ago - I park a block over in a surface lot for $5-10 less AND don't have to deal with lines getting out of the garage.  Plus for a while they were making the garages prepaid only which meant you had to pay the convenience fee on top of the parking cost, and since I was often buying tickets on StubHub rather than through the Marlins/one stop shop, I didn't deal with that.  I think they've reverted back to allowing you to pay on site now and/or didn't they institute using one of the parking apps like pay by phone now?

5 minutes ago, Piazza31 said:

Exactly. The main thing about this ownership group I feel was....

1) They didn't understand what this market had been through already in 98,05 and 2012.  The bought a team with no credibility in Miami. To blow it up right away was dumb. Tell the players and fans they got one year while they "evaluate" what they bought would have been smarter.

2) They thought Jeter's name would automatically make them a contender for our entertainment dollars down here, and with businesses and sponsorships. In reality he was just another big name in a town full of em. In New York, he's DEREK FUCKIN JETER!!! OMG!!! In Miami he's Derek Jeter, just another guy.

That was my biggest complaint about the rebuild too - even though maybe it was technically the right move, it was completely tone deaf to the fanbase that had been through that process several times already, each time causing more and more fans to just not come back at all.  I don't think the "taking a year" and then tearing it down would have worked either - it'd have been the same result for the fans......and if anything perhaps worse because it's a new group that promised to keep players and THEN tear it down a year later?

To be fair, they did finally get the naming rights deal and other things done, and I do think they've improved the team's image in the community - well Miami-Dade anyway, while they completely ignore Broward.  But fans want to watch a winning team, and they've continued to not do that, and I think that's what they don't understand.  People in South Florida do come out for a winner, but not for a loser especially with the team's history.

 

The Herald says Sherman wanted to move on without Jeter and wasn't going to extend him after this season but also knew firing him would be a bad move. So Jeter knew where this was headed and chose to leave now which obviously benefits Sherman, who doesn't have to fire him and still ultimately gets the change he wants. I can also understand Jeter wanting to leave and not be in a lame duck position this season.

Jeter's camp is claiming Sherman changed his mind on adding more to payroll but Sherman's side disputes that. Barry Jackson says that that point can be proven right or wrong depending on what they do after the lockout, obviously. 

So clearly it's just a disagreement between the two, whether or not payroll is a factor we'll have to wait and see.

If Sherman was upset about attendance numbers that would seem like he wants more success and hasn't gotten it. Even if he's in this for money he's gonna need attendance to go up. He isn't gonna be ok with coming in and letting our attendance stay so low.

I feel like one of the two wants/wanted to win more, but who is it? Is Sherman upset that Jeter hasn't brought more success or is Sherman upset because Jeter wants to bring more success?

17 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

If Sherman was upset about attendance numbers that would seem like he wants more success and hasn't gotten it. Even if he's in this for money he's gonna need attendance to go up. He isn't gonna be ok with coming in and letting our attendance stay so low.

I feel like one of the two wants/wanted to win more, but who is it? Is Sherman upset that Jeter hasn't brought more success or is Sherman upset because Jeter wants to bring more success?

 

I'd imagine they both wanted more success.  But maybe Sherman didn't view Jeter as being able to deliver on that based on results thus far?

 

Reality is, there's no way it's completely clear cut of Sherman wanted exactly this, Jeter wanted exactly this and that both sides didn't have goals that never overlapped.  I'm sure it's a whole web of things, many of which overlapped, some didn't.  I'd imagine part of the contention was the salary given he was also part owner.  I'd also imagine Sherman is disappointed with the lack of success (2020 excluded) both on field and attendance wise - I'm sure Jeter wanted this too, and rightfully so, but we also don't know if Sherman wouldn't approve more spending last offseason (i.e. to resign JT, etc), or if Jeter never asked for it because it didn't fit the planned timeline yet.  Maybe Jeter stuck too rigidly to "the plan" and wouldn't adjust based on 2020's success, and that's why we didn't see bigger signings last offseason?  Point being, I'm sure it's muddy, and we'll likely never know exactly why the split occurred.

 

 

As you said in your previous post, Sherman can easily prove the Jeter's camp rumors wrong by throwing money around.

Not only will we never (fully) know why they split, but we'll never know exactly how much Jeter did or didn't contribute to the team's overall improvement (i.e. including the farm system) over the last 4 years. It's possible Jeter wasn't actually very good with player evaluation, for example.

I'm not really sure what Sherman expected?

He used Jeter to get the ownership of the Marlins.  When Jeter was no longer useful to that goal, cut bait.

jeter has no business running a MLB organization end of day.  As said by many over and over again.

So if Sherman was upset about anything business related...... What the fuck did he expect when the person he put in the role of lead dog had literally zero experience in any of those things?