1 minute ago, Michael said:

I'd rather him stay and have to eat his words, really.

With or without condiments?

2 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

With or without condiments?

Without and we left them in the sun for a week.

1 minute ago, Michael said:

Without and we left them in the sun for a week.

2 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Fine. He can put horse radish on it.

2 minutes ago, Michael said:

Fine. He can put horse radish on it.

That's the best kind of radish

15 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

That's the best kind of radish

Never mind.

Onions.

1 hour ago, Erick said:

In terms of spending, there was no CF’er to spend on in free agency. The only way to acquire a legit CF’er is via trade.

As for relievers, it’s generally a bad investment to spend on them. Remember when we were excited about Heath Bell? 

Not to defend the front office but the two areas of need to be acquired via trade. I’m not sure what the asking price has been, but sometimes the trades we want to make now are the same ones we end up saying we regret later.

Furthermore, at least in the case of the reliever, usually one reliever doesn’t turn a 4th place team (which Das is guaranteeing already) into a playoff team (at least analytically speaking), so there’s that. 

multi year deals for relievers is generally not smart.

1 or even a 2 year deal isnt really that bad, especially when the AAV is south of 5 million.

7 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

multi year deals for relievers is generally not smart.

1 or even a 2 year deal isnt really that bad, especially when the AAV is south of 5 million.

So, like, Anthony Bass then? 

Who’s the impact reliever you wanted to sign at that price?

2 hours ago, Erick said:

If they finish better than 4th, can you leave the message board? 

You would get too much pleasure and joy out of that.

That said, looking at the rosters of the NL East, Marlins are the 4th best team.

Can they sneak into 3rd?  Sure, if a lot of things go right for them and wrong for someone else.

The Marlins have no good depth up the middle, so they better hope for good health.  Any injury greater than 2 weeks will be quite detremential to that quest for greater than 4th. 

The roster is flawed with a lot of redundancy, hopefully management will be aggressive with prospects if they are killing it in AAA, because a talent infusion like that might be quite necessary.  Anderson in LF 3-4 days a week probably helps them put the best possible team on the field offensively.  Its an issue I've seen with roster construction.

Joey Wendle was a good get.  The problem is his best position is 2b.  His second best position is 3b.  

Jazz is at 2b, I would have personally told Jazz to get all the reps he can in CF before the lockout and then thrown him into CF once ST started.  He has the athleticism to play the position, just a matter of can he effectively get the jumps and reads he would need in CF.  They didnt do that.

They should have told Brian Anderson to be ready to play an outfield position instead of saying what halfway through camp, hey we need you to get reps in LF.  He should be fine, but he is a far better 3b than OF.  

It just seems there are pieces they are trying to fit in that dont really fit where they want to play them.

Its like they started the job and got scared at prices to finish the job.  Its why so many have been harsh and I hope continue to be harsh.

Marlins flat out refused to address their biggest weakness this past offseason.  I hope all realize how flat out inexcusable this is.  

When you have top pitching, you really need/want the best defenders you can get up the middle.  They addressed that with Stallings (really a move not talked about enough) .

The secondary biggest flaw was really missing a late inning proven bullpen arm. Another place they flat out refused to really do anything, when prices for a lot of proven relievers werent that bad.  

Its maddening how this organization has been a. cheap in terms of spending money (they signed Soler I feel to spite people), another piece that really is a bad fit with the rest of the roster honestly.  If they think they are going to get even league average D from Soler they are idiots.  Marcel Ozuna is a better defender.  And he sucks at this point defensively.  b. living by the prospects are gold mantra, then sending out prospects instead of giving them a chance to shine.

Lets look at Meyer.  Is he one of your top 12 (probably 14 in April) pitchers?  If he is, then what the fuck is the point of him in AAA, to keep him stretched out?  Big fucking deal. Go win games for a change and act like you care about winning games.  If Meyer isnt that, then why the fuck are you having this fucking untouchable mindset?  

Its just stupid.

9 minutes ago, Erick said:

So, like, Anthony Bass then? 

Who’s the impact reliever you wanted to sign at that price?

Kenley Janson signed for 1 year.  No 1 year deal is really bad.

Kendall Graveman (I know he got 3 years) would have been a nice sign.

Corey Knebel went for 10 million in division for 1 year.

Ryan Tepera would have been a great signing.

Luis Garcia went for 3.5 mil a year for 2 years.

Spend a little money and get an established guy for the back end.  

 

Other than Graveman all of those guys went for 1 or 2 years.

Open up your fucking wallets (they have PLENTY ) of payroll space really and pretend like you are serious about winning. 

1 minute ago, Das Texan said:

Kenley Janson signed for 1 year.  No 1 year deal is really bad.

Kendall Graveman (I know he got 3 years) would have been a nice sign.

Corey Knebel went for 10 million in division for 1 year.

Ryan Tepera would have been a great signing.

Luis Garcia went for 3.5 mil a year for 2 years.

Spend a little money and get an established guy for the back end.  

 

Other than Graveman all of those guys went for 1 or 2 years.

Open up your fucking wallets (they have PLENTY ) of payroll space really and pretend like you are serious about winning. 

And I realize all the guys I referenced except Garcia went for north of 5 million AAV.

Just shows how if you want to win you can go do it.  Just spend a little money for a change. 

Teams get about $110 MILLION before selling one ticket.  AT LEAST.  

3 hours ago, Erick said:

If they finish better than 4th, can you leave the message board? 

Omg finally I'll have something to really root for! 

3 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

With or without condiments?

Hollandaise sucks. 

57 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

And I realize all the guys I referenced except Garcia went for north of 5 million AAV.

Just shows how if you want to win you can go do it.  Just spend a little money for a change. 

Teams get about $110 MILLION before selling one ticket.  AT LEAST.  

If you’re so set on this being a 4th place team, the money spent on a reliever there would carry this team to…a 4th place finish? 

I’m pretty sure you’d still be bitching even if the team had signed 1 of those relievers with the exception of maybe Kenley Jansen. Kenley Jansen, by the way, they were rumored to be interested in him, but, unfortunately, free agents get to make their own choices. Jansen has said he ended up going to the Braves, in part because he grew up a Braves fan and Andruw Jones was his favorite player (+ they have other players like Albies on the current team from Curacao). 

There’s no way you’d be applauding the offseason had they signed a guy like Ryan Tepera who is good…but let’s be real, you’d still be complaining (not sure why you do anyway since you’re a “Cardinals fan” now).

5 hours ago, Erick said:

In terms of spending, there was no CF’er to spend on in free agency. The only way to acquire a legit CF’er is via trade.

As for relievers, it’s generally a bad investment to spend on them. Remember when we were excited about Heath Bell? 

Not to defend the front office but the two areas of need to be acquired via trade. I’m not sure what the asking price has been, but sometimes the trades we want to make now are the same ones we end up saying we regret later.

Furthermore, at least in the case of the reliever, usually one reliever doesn’t turn a 4th place team (which Das is guaranteeing already) into a playoff team (at least analytically speaking), so there’s that. 

 

they could have spent in other areas where there was depth in FA (i.e. Correa), and augmented that by then trading for components where there wasn’t a clear cut FA choice.
 

5 hours ago, Michael said:

I'd rather him stay and have to eat his words, really.

How about eat them and then leave?

like a to-go meal.

Also, the D’backs extended Ketel for 5/76, so that potential trade option is off the table.

2 hours ago, Erick said:

If you’re so set on this being a 4th place team, the money spent on a reliever there would carry this team to…a 4th place finish? 

I’m pretty sure you’d still be bitching even if the team had signed 1 of those relievers with the exception of maybe Kenley Jansen. Kenley Jansen, by the way, they were rumored to be interested in him, but, unfortunately, free agents get to make their own choices. Jansen has said he ended up going to the Braves, in part because he grew up a Braves fan and Andruw Jones was his favorite player (+ they have other players like Albies on the current team from Curacao). 

There’s no way you’d be applauding the offseason had they signed a guy like Ryan Tepera who is good…but let’s be real, you’d still be complaining (not sure why you do anyway since you’re a “Cardinals fan” now).

they also gave Kenley probably the best offer on the board.

so there is that as well. 

 

16 hours ago, Das Texan said:

You would get too much pleasure and joy out of that.

That said, looking at the rosters of the NL East, Marlins are the 4th best team.

Can they sneak into 3rd?  Sure, if a lot of things go right for them and wrong for someone else.

Not a single team in this division won 90 games last year, and every single one has legitimate question marks (e.g. Braves lost Freeman, Philly's pitching sucks, Mets' hitting is questionable and deGrom has had injury issues). The Marlins are likely the fourth-best team, but let's not sit here and pretend that it would take some monumental shift for them to finish better than fourth place.

Edited March 28, 20224 yr by Valid

3 hours ago, Valid said:

Not a single team in this division won 90 games last year, and every single one has legitimate question marks (e.g. Braves lost Freeman, Philly's pitching sucks, Mets' hitting is questionable and deGrom has had injury issues). The Marlins are likely the fourth-best team, but let's not sit here and pretend that it would take some monumental shift for them to finish better than fourth place.

The Braves lost Freeman but got a pretty good replacement.

I fully expect NY and Philly to implode, as they so often do. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the second best team in the division by the break. It really wouldn't be a massive upset.

On 3/27/2022 at 12:05 PM, Das Texan said:

Gotta keep that clock not started on Meyer baby.  Preserve his prospect status afterall!

Didn't the new CBA address service time manipulation?

8 minutes ago, FishFan95 said:

Didn't the new CBA address service time manipulation?

Only get rewarded if the player finishes top 2 in ROTY or something I think, and only if he ends up on the Opening Day roster.

So ... no not really. Lol

On 3/27/2022 at 1:40 PM, hovertical said:

At this point I'd give them a D+ for their offseason signings?  Most of that is for getting an actual Catcher.  I still think the Garcia signing was an utter waste of money and should have been allocated towards getting one of the top relievers available.  Soler signing is decent for the price (had they not already signed Garcia).  Wendle is a good acquisition but is a depth signing and will not elevate this team to compete with any of the big 3 ahead of them.  The other problem is that they seem to be hellbent on having an entire lineup constructed of big power swing and miss guys - not the Adam Dunn type either that can still get on base via walk.  This is why last year you'd see 4-5 games in a row with only 1-2 runs scored and then they'd push 12 runs across in a game because the power would show up and things would align. 

 

They just needed some impact guys signed but instead opted for depth signings only.  They failed on all accounts to acquire any impact bats or top relievers whether it was via trade or FA signing.  It was just a piss poor offseason overall that did absolutely nothing to make them relevant in the NL East.  I strongly doubt they'll even be at .500 by seasons end with their current roster.  I see maybe 75 wins and another season filled with tons of 3-2 or 3-1 losses punctuated again by the occasional 12 run outburst night.

You have them at 8 wins better than last year. Considering Pythagorean win percentage had the team at 5 games worse than their run differential suggests, then they may have a Pythagorean win percent around 80 or so wins. This is right around how the projections have the team Maybe luck shoots them the other way and they get 5 more wins than expected. 85 would be right in the thick of things.

On 3/27/2022 at 8:01 PM, Das Texan said:

You would get too much pleasure and joy out of that.

That said, looking at the rosters of the NL East, Marlins are the 4th best team.

Can they sneak into 3rd?  Sure, if a lot of things go right for them and wrong for someone else.

The Marlins have no good depth up the middle, so they better hope for good health.  Any injury greater than 2 weeks will be quite detremential to that quest for greater than 4th. 

The roster is flawed with a lot of redundancy, hopefully management will be aggressive with prospects if they are killing it in AAA, because a talent infusion like that might be quite necessary.  Anderson in LF 3-4 days a week probably helps them put the best possible team on the field offensively.  Its an issue I've seen with roster construction.

Joey Wendle was a good get.  The problem is his best position is 2b.  His second best position is 3b.  

Jazz is at 2b, I would have personally told Jazz to get all the reps he can in CF before the lockout and then thrown him into CF once ST started.  He has the athleticism to play the position, just a matter of can he effectively get the jumps and reads he would need in CF.  They didnt do that.

They should have told Brian Anderson to be ready to play an outfield position instead of saying what halfway through camp, hey we need you to get reps in LF.  He should be fine, but he is a far better 3b than OF.  

It just seems there are pieces they are trying to fit in that dont really fit where they want to play them.

Its like they started the job and got scared at prices to finish the job.  Its why so many have been harsh and I hope continue to be harsh.

Marlins flat out refused to address their biggest weakness this past offseason.  I hope all realize how flat out inexcusable this is.  

When you have top pitching, you really need/want the best defenders you can get up the middle.  They addressed that with Stallings (really a move not talked about enough) .

The secondary biggest flaw was really missing a late inning proven bullpen arm. Another place they flat out refused to really do anything, when prices for a lot of proven relievers werent that bad.  

Its maddening how this organization has been a. cheap in terms of spending money (they signed Soler I feel to spite people), another piece that really is a bad fit with the rest of the roster honestly.  If they think they are going to get even league average D from Soler they are idiots.  Marcel Ozuna is a better defender.  And he sucks at this point defensively.  b. living by the prospects are gold mantra, then sending out prospects instead of giving them a chance to shine.

Lets look at Meyer.  Is he one of your top 12 (probably 14 in April) pitchers?  If he is, then what the fuck is the point of him in AAA, to keep him stretched out?  Big fucking deal. Go win games for a change and act like you care about winning games.  If Meyer isnt that, then why the fuck are you having this fucking untouchable mindset?  

Its just stupid.

I think they'll finish at least 3rd. They have really good pitching and I have no faith in the Phillies and Mets working out personally. They are built with elmer's glue even if they have some awesome stars on top. Regardless a lot to unpack here. I'm going to disagree with up the middle depth. Wendle is a really good 2B/3B/SS backup. It's hard for any team to have a low end starter as a backup and they do. It would be nice if Devers/Nunez (upper minors guys) were more certain things, or Berti, but it is what it is. What team has 5 good 2B/SS/3B options and an awesome 13th man besides the Rays? They have good depth at 1B/OF/DH also, as any injury is a Lewin, Bleday, or Burdick call up. These are excellent backup plans to me.

The problem is backup catcher, but maybe the kids surprise, but that's very minor to the one thing we always get back to. Center. Fucking. Field. What the hell?

This is why I think a Laureano, T. Kemp, and Trivino trade would be really smart. Kemp creates a very good bench situation very fast with Wendle, and he can help bridge the CF gap to Laureano (and get Berti off the team).

I'm fine leaving Meyer down to start, he could use a little more time (plus service time manipulation!), but no one should be untouchable.

They gotta trade 3-4 guys from their top 12-15 prospects. It's that easy. If they end up trading too many pitchers for Bryan Reynolds. Guess what. Go fucking sign someone next year.

1 hour ago, FishFan95 said:

You have them at 8 wins better than last year. Considering Pythagorean win percentage had the team at 5 games worse than their run differential suggests, then they may have a Pythagorean win percent around 80 or so wins. This is right around how the projections have the team Maybe luck shoots them the other way and they get 5 more wins than expected. 85 would be right in the thick of things.

I think this is right. 80 is a good over/under and dumb luck can take them to 85 (or add a win for each Jazz, Sanchez, Luzardo, etc. breakout, or 2 wins if they get a Rogers explosion).

Which is why they need Reynolds, Laureano, or Mullins, along with another RP. The margin of error is low. Do everything you can to win. It's time.

5 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

I think this is right. 80 is a good over/under and dumb luck can take them to 85 (or add a win for each Jazz, Sanchez, Luzardo, etc. breakout, or 2 wins if they get a Rogers explosion).

Which is why they need Reynolds, Laureano, or Mullins, along with another RP. The margin of error is low. Do everything you can to win. It's time.

To put things into perspective, here is the win difference comparing Pythagorean win-loss and real wins since the new ownership took over.

2018: +5
2019: -4
2020: +5 (not even adjusting for the shorter schedule)
2021: -5

If the pattern continues, they will be about 4 or 5 wins better than expected. Which the projections say is 80 wins. But you play the games on the field rather than on paper.