8 hours ago, Rydawg said:

Hard salary cap!

The players are vehemently against this even when a floor was tied to it, and you can see why now I guess. Steve Cohen's spending spree isn't stopped by even the so-called "Steve Cohen 90% tax" so the current tax isn't doing much to deter spending. Other teams have no problem blowing through the lower levels of the tax brackets either. MLBPA won that big time.

"Small market teams" or teams that behave "small market" anyway have no chance.

I honestly expected them to do nothing again so I'm not disappointed or surprised by the status quo. Kim hinted at this many times when she said last year's team only struggled due to bad luck and injuries. That told you they would be running it back.

28 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Mets are going for the 400 million payroll, while the fish try to stay under 100

And nobody's saying they need to approach a 400 million payroll... just be respectable and pick up the pace a little. 

31 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Mets are going for the 400 million payroll, while the fish try to stay under 100

Does every division have one Marlins? I wouldn't call it collusion but maybe bargaining...

Us in the NL east...Tampa in the AL east....the Pirates...who else?

16 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

And nobody's saying they need to approach a 400 million payroll... just be respectable and pick up the pace a little. 

At this point what is respectable, though? They are sunk. If I were Kim, I would have a hard time justifying to Sherman to open his wallet. This division (and wild card) looks lost for the next few years

Just now, Entendu said:

At this point what is respectable, though? They are sunk. If I were Kim, I would have a hard time justifying to Sherman to open his wallet. This division (and wild card) looks lost for the next few years

Nothing would justify that to him anyway so moot point.

We'd probably be better off trading Sandy while he has the most value to help the system at least. We can't have a fire sale at least this time since we don't have much to sell.

10 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Nothing would justify that to him anyway so moot point.

We'd probably be better off trading Sandy while he has the most value to help the system at least. We can't have a fire sale at least this time since we don't have much to sell.

Trading Sandy would be the fire sale as that's the move that would clearly signal them not even trying.

1 minute ago, SilverBullet said:

Trading Sandy would be the fire sale as that's the move that would clearly signal them not even trying.

Well they already clearly signaled they aren't trying anyway in my opinion.

12 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Well they already clearly signaled they aren't trying anyway in my opinion.

Yep. May as well hit restart yet again to try and find that magical set of prospects that all go off at the same time since that's clearly their plan.

I 100% support a hard cap and floor. Know the likely hood of that happening is nil but the issues seem to be getting worse at each end of the spending spectrum. 

9 minutes ago, AeroFishOne said:

I 100% support a hard cap and floor. Know the likely hood of that happening is nil but the issues seem to be getting worse at each end of the spending spectrum. 

Yep. I'd greatly prefer this as well. Absolutely have to have that floor in place too - neither will ever happen though. Give it a few more years and we'll see a half bil payroll.

3 minutes ago, hovertical said:

Give it a few more years and we'll see a half bil payroll.

Hell 2024 season maybe. Cohen wants Ohtani.

1 hour ago, SonOfJack said:

Nothing would justify that to him anyway so moot point.

We'd probably be better off trading Sandy while he has the most value to help the system at least. We can't have a fire sale at least this time since we don't have much to sell.

That ends the ownership group as no one will ever trust them after coming in, scorching earth, doing nothing, then scorching earth. Also they would get a ton for Sandy, Jazz, Pablo, Rogers, Luzardo, and the subsidiary guys (Cooper/Berti/Wendle/Floro/etc.) if they did pull the plug and say traded everyone with less than 4 years of control Not that that is going to happen, but I mention because the Marlins have A LOT of talent despite the spending going out there. If the choice is to not spend right now, it's not blowing it up now, it's just keeping everyone and kick the can to 2024 (queue always moving goalposts). Imagine this staff:

Sandy, Rogers, Pablo, Luzardo, Eury
Cabrera, Meyer, Sixto, Bender
Garrett, Eder, Fulton, Scott

I don't know how they will hit (effectively, they will have Fortes, Jazz, Berti, Groshans, DLC/other LFers, Garcia, and Soler, so they will need 4-5 bat upgrades), but that team is going to PITCH and outside of Sandy and Pablo, no one is likely facing a third time through the order as they can just throw waves and keep everyone fresh. And then we get to the same offseason, 4+ offensive upgrades and the team has 20-22 players on the roster for approximately $70m dollars (or $60m with no Pablo!). And then I guess the insanity position is as we want Correa now, we want Machado/Devers next year, to trade Salas/whoever for another upgrade, and sign stop-gaps to bridge the gap to Berry, Cappe, Mack, and presumably a college bat taken first round 2023 draft. I suspect none of us will be here at THIS point, but maybe with THAT staff they'd finally care. I would not hold my breath.

And to expressly state, I am not advocating this so no one yells at me, suggesting what they may be thinking.

Just saying, we're a long ways from a blow up and the Marlins shouldn't worry about what other teams are doing. They just gotta plug their holes, figure out how to get that last wild card, and let Sandy and the pitchers take over short playoff series. Phillies had no business being in the World Series and the Guardians were pretty close. Position yourselves for that. Get in and catch fire.

2 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

The players are vehemently against this even when a floor was tied to it, and you can see why now I guess. Steve Cohen's spending spree isn't stopped by even the so-called "Steve Cohen 90% tax" so the current tax isn't doing much to deter spending. Other teams have no problem blowing through the lower levels of the tax brackets either. MLBPA won that big time.

"Small market teams" or teams that behave "small market" anyway have no chance.

I think this offseason may change some attitudes, as ultimately, the product suffers if only NYY, BOS, LAA, HOU, ATL, NYM, PHI, CHC, STL, SF, SD, and LAD are big spenders, with sometimes TOR, BAL, CWS, TEX, WASH popping up, and rarely DET, MINN, and SEA.

This is 1/3rd the league throwing in the towel before the games start, and at least half of the "sometimes" bracket isn't going to be on a contending cycle. So half the league is effectively out day 1 and praying to pull off a playoff miracle ala Tampa/Cleveland have done to advance a few rounds last decade.

The product suffers, the union suffers. I am all for these guys getting paid, but like you said, when the Mets lose again (as they will as the team isn't as good as a few other NL teams or impressive for what they are spending), does he just add Ohtani and Devers next offseason and run a $500m payroll and doesn't care about a luxury tax as he is worth $14b, he doesn't care, and the Mets still produce TV/gate money as their fan base will be rapid if they do that so how much is he in fact losing? And then Soto becomes a free agent the next offseason when they lose again and he balloons more?

It's comical. It's becoming like Vanderbilt being in the same division as Alabama. They could boost MLB minimum spending (both with a floor and maybe league minimum shoots way up to $1.5-2m which will have a massive impact) and hard cap the top. Still let Steve spend, but spread the love. I'd be very concerned if I were the union at alienating half the fans in the league, but maybe I am mis-reading the room after being bludgeoned for years from this franchise who is dead last in spending over the last 20 years.

 

 

5 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

 

And why would he come here even if the Marlins give him $1-2m a year more than someone else (which they won't). (I know you know this).

He's 38, wants to win, and has career earning at $90m so what kind of accounting mishap happened where he needs an extra buck or two versus being happy on a good team? He doesn't give a shit about state income taxes.

Hence why, the Marlins need to do the Jayson Werth deal as they won't get ANY of those veteran guys until they show them they mean business.

Edited December 9, 20223 yr by MarlinsLou

5 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

 

Kim is monitoring 

Just now, MarlinsLou said:

Hence why, the Marlins need to do the Jayson Werth deal as they won't get ANY of those veteran guys until they show them they mean business.

Yep but we know they won't

Just now, SonOfJack said:

Yep but we know they won't

It's Correa, Swanson, or bust at this point. I guess they could sign Rodon and then use Rogers very easily to get Alek Thomas/Bryan Reynolds and Pablo to get A. Rosario/X. Curry.

Past that, is their sell to us hey look, we won 81 games. That's a 12 win improvement. We're going places!

As we then look at them at a $90m payroll and Correa just had a 5 WAR season, Reynolds a 4 WAR season, and Justin Turner a 2 WAR season, and those guys would effectively be replacing 3+ WAR worth of players on Miami meaning the team could have easily been 88 wins if they had just spent $120m to be bottom 20 in the league. Have it all make sense.

8 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

It's Correa, Swanson, or bust at this point. I guess they could sign Rodon and then use Rogers very easily to get Alek Thomas/Bryan Reynolds and Pablo to get A. Rosario/X. Curry.

How can anyone actually have any hope of any of these things happening though? What have they done, that makes any of these moves seem even 1% possible?

5 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

How can anyone actually have any hope of any of these things happening though? What have they done, that makes any of these moves seem even 1% possible?

I don't think any of us does. At least trading for Reynolds/Rosario and getting a stop gap Turner and maybe a SP would be *something* though if they fail to move to bottom 22nd territory in payroll. Can they even accomplish that?

I think they best thing that can happen this offseason is Bruce realizes he bit off more than he can chew and he has to sell as he will never compete with owners with more money than him and that care. We can hope.

23 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I think they best thing that can happen this offseason is Bruce realizes he bit off more than he can chew and he has to sell as he will never compete with owners with more money than him and that care. We can hope.

I don't think he'd ever think that. Not sure I buy that he actually wants to win. I think he doesn't want to lose, but isn't going to overextend himself just to win at baseball. This team is an investment and (I guess?) something for his kids to do (he said this but I haven't heard anything about them being involved or interested)

6 minutes ago, Entendu said:

I don't think he'd ever think that. Not sure I buy that he actually wants to win. I think he doesn't want to lose, but isn't going to overextend himself just to win at baseball. This team is an investment and (I guess?) something for his kids to do (he said this but I haven't heard anything about them being involved or interested)

Sure, que rich hubris and missing the part of running a business, when weekday attendance is going to be 4,000 this year when they do nothing and keep playing 3-2 ball games.

If this is a rich guy hobby/investment, why should we care?

 

3 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

I honestly expected them to do nothing again so I'm not disappointed or surprised by the status quo. Kim hinted at this many times when she said last year's team only struggled due to bad luck and injuries. That told you they would be running it back.

i'm never surprised but man, i'm always disappointed.  I still want them to do well as there's nothing more exciting than watching a team being very competitive all season and being "in it" at least for a WC spot.  unlike other sports, you almost have a game every day that you can get amped up about which is why i ❤️ baseball more than any other sport.  Sadly, MLB cratered because asshole Jeter just HAD to attach himself to Sherman and we get dicked over yet again with another cheap(er) owner. 

I'll never be surprised that we literally sign nobody of note and half-ass everything (and that's being generous) but it still hurts.  Every. Single. Offseason.