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McKeon sticking it to the man


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A blurb from cbs sportsline:

 

McKeon wants big innings on arms

 

News: Manager Jack McKeon believes pitchers are more likely to stay healthy if they throw a lot, and that includes Josh Beckett and A.J. Burnett, a pair of pitchers with injury problems. "I'm not afraid to let him go nine," McKeon says. "Complete games are unusual because the industry doesn't allow guys in the minor leagues to pitch any innings. They baby them so much. Five innings and you're out of the game. Sure, save his arm so he can go on the disabled list three years later. It's hard to convince the three-piece-suit people running the business today that letting guys pitch a lot is the way to go. The whole industry has gotten that way. Hopefully we can lead the league in complete games."

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I disagree. Pitching coach Tom House has said that today's pitchers can't go long innings because they don't grow up "playing catch" so much anymore. Too much else going on with video games, school, etc to spend idle hours just throwing & catching, like in the old days. This doesn't get solved just cause they start going long in the minors - it's an ir-reversible cultural shift.

 

Let's pray Jack doesn't burn out any of our studs (like he did Spooney in '03).

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Jack knows what he is doing..... let him work his magic :)

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I think he is wrong there. You know how much stress pitching puts on your arm?

 

Pitchers should be limited if they want to have a long succesful career.

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prior to the mid 80's there was no such thing as middle relief. pitchers were expected to go 8 innings at least.

 

jack is old school...

anyone else find it a coincidence that...greg maddux could be the last 300 win pitcher we will see because pitchers are babied...don't go deep into games..because oh my god they've thrown 90 pitches in 6 innings and his spot is due up in the order

 

no, think about it, how many wins could one pitcher have if, he threw one extra inning in each start that he got a no decision in. lets say his team scores a run that inning and they go on to win....even if that happends once a season for 20 seasons, thats 20 more wins...that could give tom glavine 300

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I don't think it will be a huge issue.

 

 

If our starter is pitching lights out and has a reasonable pitch count, he'll stay in the game. His quote seems to imply that he's gonna push our guys to go 8 or 9 innings per game, and that's not gonna happen. As long as our guys are shutting out opposing teams and are throwing less than around 115 pitches per game, they'll probably get the chance to close it. I doubt we'll see them going much more than that.

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IMO each pitcher is differant. Look at Livan he throws 260+ innings every year for a sub-.500 team and puts up decent numbers. He's not going on the DL season after season. But for every Livan there's a Pedro who just can't physically hold up to 100 pitches or more every start. I agree Jack knows his business he'll pitch his young horses as long as they can go and the old guys Al and Ishy(if he ever finds some good luck) will stick to strict pitch count.

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I disagree. Pitching coach Tom House has said that today's pitchers can't go long innings because they don't grow up "playing catch" so much anymore. Too much else going on with video games, school, etc to spend idle hours just throwing & catching, like in the old days. This doesn't get solved just cause they start going long in the minors - it's an ir-reversible cultural shift.

 

Let's pray Jack doesn't burn out any of our studs (like he did Spooney in '03).

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That is a load of garbage. You build arm strength by throwing. Your statement implies that that there is no sense spending time building arm strength. Do you also believe that other players cannot get stronger by working out?

 

Players make their bodies stronger (naturally) by working at it. Pitchers strengthen their arms by working at it. Just as a reliever can become a starter, working his pitch count and innings up, a starter can go longer into games by throwing more. You don't run them into the ground by throwing 150 pitch games on a regular basis, but you also don't just draw a line right at 100.

 

And besides, if they throw enough strikes and stay out of trouble, complete games are easily done with less than 110 pitches.

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Jack knows what he is doing..... let him work his magic :)

742375[/snapback]

 

I think he is wrong there. You know how much stress pitching puts on your arm?

 

Pitchers should be limited if they want to have a long succesful career.

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that is so debateable. Jack has been in the business for over 50 years. Oh and do you personaly know how much stress it gives your arm or have you 'read it somewhere'.

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Guest Juanky

Jack knows what he is doing..... let him work his magic :)

 

 

I think he is wrong there. You know how much stress pitching puts on your arm?

 

Pitchers should be limited if they want to have a long succesful career.

What babied pitcher do you know has had a long, successful career? Not Pedro, Maddux, Unit, Clemens, Schilling, and so on, that's for sure.

 

I dont know what the exact number is, but I remember hearing on the radio that Nolan Ryan threw 190 pitches or something like that.

 

Alot of pitchers back then went into extra innings. Its just recenlty that we see the 100 pitch mark and say thats alot

 

I've read that he threw over 200 pitches in a start once

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IF, someone, somewhere in the world, under the toolage of Jack gets that collection of blood under the skin thing come ooooh June or July....

 

will the people who think this is okay, still think he was right?

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yes.

 

 

 

the blisters developed when josh was on stricter limits also.

 

 

 

so its not like extra tosses will have been the cause.

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Though starters are babied these days and there is no reason not to throw 105-110 pitches per start, starters can and will burn out if forced to pitch more than that. And for those who trust in Jack. I wouldn't. The guy is an uneducated fool. He may be a charming manager and good team symbol, but he is not the ideal manager. He has no idea what's going on. The new wave of baseball is to understand what is going on on the field and make thought out - not "gut" - decisions. Jack is clueless and should not be trusted with Beckett and Burnett's careers.

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Hey I have them all beat.

 

I threw (if you want to my pitching "pitching") almost 400 pitches (to LLers ahem) last night and I'm ready to go tonight again. :brigginbounce

 

I only beaned one kid.

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:lol

 

 

 

If Jack was making our pitchers throw 140 pitches a game then I would be worried but our pitchers have not thrown over 118 pitches. This morning I checked the paper and Livan threw over 120 pitches. I am not sure what he threw his last 2 starts.

If our pitchers are keeping their pitch count down then pitching a CG wouldnt bother me, but once they start throwing over 130 then I will get mad at Jack :mad

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Though starters are babied these days and there is no reason not to throw 105-110 pitches per start, starters can and will burn out if forced to pitch more than that. And for those who trust in Jack. I wouldn't. The guy is an uneducated fool. He may be a charming manager and good team symbol, but he is not the ideal manager. He has no idea what's going on. The new wave of baseball is to understand what is going on on the field and make thought out - not "gut" - decisions. Jack is clueless and should not be trusted with Beckett and Burnett's careers.

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Wow. :thumbdown

 

Congratulations, you've won this week's award for most rubbish in one post of less than 250 words. Your "I'm going to graduate from the fourth grade if it's the last thing I do" t-shirt is in the mail. Wear it proudly.

 

Let me get this straight, he's an "uneducated fool", "he has no idea what's going on" and he's "clueless". The next thing I expect is you'll be saying you could do a better job.

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