stefanodemais Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Marlins 2003: I respect your support of the guy and I believe you probably do have a better view of him than those of us forced to look through the TV to see his efforts. But when a ball is his to right and the camera zooms to him strolling over to a ball hit to the corner as if its a walk in the park it really tans my hide. It'd be one thing if these were the first complaints made about him but they are not. It would be one thing if the guy kept his mouth quiet. But its not. Enc is a cancer, trade him or sell him to Japan too. :thumbup 822297[/snapback] Not to be argumentative but what you're seeing often times is he has already determined he can't reach the ball on the fly and he's positioning himself to play the carom. Having watched a thousand games at Fenway with the Green Monster or the odd shaped right field fence you see that all the time. I am not saying that Enc is perfect, doesn't make mistakes or isn't infuriating sometimes with his nonchalant one-handed catches, because he is. But he's not the bad defensive outfielder some here would make him out to be. 822308[/snapback] He's not that bad in the outfield (not that great either) but his batting sucks. I think he got lucky to hit those 2 Grand Slams and as you can see his batting average has been steadly decreasing since the great start he had. And the Encarnacion that we thought was a changed man at the plate, is actually converting back to the good old, swing at horrible pitches outside player we used to know. Now you might argue the same thing for Gonzales, swinging at those sliders outside always, but he is (in my mind) the best defensive short stop in the league (and he's batting in the .280s this season). But Enc is not that great in the outfield. The Dodgers wanted him out for a good reason. I think it's either his fault or the batting coaches fault but I will make it clear here that I am not in favor of firing Bill Robinson. Plus everytime I see him or hear something from him it always seems he is looking out for himself only and not the team. If he's really that way, I say we trade him for Atlanta or Washington and watch them start losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Hot, and again I'm not here to make excuses for Enc or anyone else, as I said, he's been the subject of trade rumors almost from the day he arrived last season, and I suspect (because I don't know) he just wants it over. He has to know he's perceived as the guy who stands in the way of "Mr. Marlin" (read fan favorite) playing, he has to know he's unloved and not respected by fans. He's no fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I know where you're coming from Marlins2003, and I don't want to sit here and bash Enc because he's not near the top of the list in the reasons Florida is struggling. But why would it be different anywhere else? Has his job been safe anywhere? Detroit gave him a chance but traded him once they realized he wasn't the 5-tool hype they thought he'd be, Cincy only kept him until he had value & then immediately dealt him, the Marlins got a decent year out of him but then didn't even retain him, the Dodgers foolishly overpaid him and shipped him out as soon as they could, though in fairness his poor 2004 season was injury-related. And now the Marlins are again shopping him. Why is it no team seems to be happy with him for long? Offensively he's below average for a corner outfielder, and is a malcontent when he's not in the lineup. Your comments on his defensive ability I agree with for the most part, but the recent incidents out there aren't imaginary, so maybe you're right and the rumors are affecting his play, who knows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanleyDavidson Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 well im gonna miss those 3,2,JUAN chants at ds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I know where you're coming from Marlins2003, and I don't want to sit here and bash Enc because he's not near the top of the list in the reasons Florida is struggling. But why would it be different anywhere else? Has his job been safe anywhere? Detroit gave him a chance but traded him once they realized he wasn't the 5-tool hype they thought he'd be, Cincy only kept him until he had value & then immediately dealt him, the Marlins got a decent year out of him but then didn't even retain him, the Dodgers foolishly overpaid him and shipped him out as soon as they could, though in fairness his poor 2004 season was injury-related. And now the Marlins are again shopping him. Why is it no team seems to be happy with him for long? Offensively he's below average for a corner outfielder, and is a malcontent when he's not in the lineup. Your comments on his defensive ability I agree with for the most part, but the recent incidents out there aren't imaginary, so maybe you're right and the rumors are affecting his play, who knows... 822344[/snapback] You're right, "who knows..."? I guess I'm responding mostly to the "hate" here by some people, and to what extremes they go to display their hate for the guy, when as you point out, he's not THE problem, he may be part of the problem, but it isn't like Enc is holding the other 24 guys back, it's the whole team that's failing. Enough said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folklegend Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Let's not forget the carping about not playing in 2003 when we acquired Conine. The guy has never been a team player. There's a reason he never stays with a team for long even with a productive bat and solid defensive skills. His attitude is crap, and he needs to be gone. Get rid of him before this type of attitude roots itself in the clubhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Who didn't see this happening? Answer: anyone that did not follow the team before Game Six of the 2003 WS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSLMARLIN Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Juan E. is undeniably the best Defensive OF on this team , Marlins2003 you are absolutely correct about this . The guy is fantastic at running balls down and he picks up the ball quicker than anyone in the OF . He is batting alot better than he was last year. I dont think people will argue with you on this . The only point that I will argue with you, is his Desire to be better. You know and I know this guy has been underachieving since he has gotten into the pros. A guy who everyone thought would be a 30-30 guy . Everyone knows he has the potential to do it , but Everyone know he has no drive , I think that is why everyone hates him . This guy has all the right stuff to be a superstar yet he always seems to find his niche in the middle of the pack . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IknowFeloRamirezIRL Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Encanceracion needs to go. It was the same :censored in '03, mediocrity, mediocrity, mediocrity. Guy has no passion and no hussle, and to be fair - he deserves to be sitting a couple weeks after the swings we saw him take vs. LAA. Instead of mouthing off he should be at the batting cages with Bill Robinson. We as the fans need some relief as well, is the FO going to trade him already or sit his ass for the rest of the season? I hope its the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeFish Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Trade him to the Devil Rays for Baez after this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndLine Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 think the Reds will want him back for Dunn? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyggyMarlin Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I've watched a few games where Enc strikes out on crap with RISP and it looked like he didn't care that he didn't get the job done...He had a ho-hum look on his face each time....I'd rather see a player hungry to be in the line-up who shows he is a little bit pissed when he fails at the plate... I just don't see any passion for the game outta the guy and he cried during the '03 playoffs when Lowell came back off the DL...get rid of him already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accord Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Trade his ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GulliverJax Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 THANK YOU GOD! This is actually a blessing in diguise. We can trade Enc. for some relief pitching and put Conine in the starting lineup, which he so greatly deserves. Conine= spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Nation Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Exactly what are we going to get for a streaky hitter who is a pretty good defender but has a 4 million dollar price tag? I think we will be lucky to get ANYONE out of a deal with him in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Nation Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I've never been a big fan of ENC but why all the character assasination directed at this guy? No hussle? No heart? A clubhouse cancer? Some pretty hefty assumptions about a guy based on a few things here and there. Either way I hope some team is dopey enough to give up a solid reliever for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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