Saying that Stanton's OBP is "weak" is speaking in relative terms. I don't see why you can't comprehend that. .360 is well above league average but if you look at other power hitters in his class, it's a figure that one would like to see improved upon.

 

I mean, the average SLG is around .400 I think. When Stanton has a SLG of .537 in 2011 it's clearly above league average, but you want to see it go beyond .600 in order to join the ranks of the best power hitters in the game. Stanton has already done that, of course, but I can certainly see why Bill James would think that the OBP leaves something to be desired.

 

And I'm well aware of wRC+. I was using GPA as an example because it is a more direct modification of OPS. Stanton's position the OPS leader board drops a little when you give OBP more weight.

 

And where on earth do you see me making the claim that Stanton is not a top-tier player in baseball? Seriously, I'd like to see where you got that from because that seems like a total straw-man. I also don't recall saying that Ben Zobrist is a better RF, either.

 

That Ben Zobrist comment of yours is extremely idiotic actually. Zobrist's OBP was only slightly better than Stanton's last year (.371 vs. .361). Obviously the vast difference in SLG would compensate for the marginal difference in OBP. I'm not comparing Stanton to guys like Zobrist; I'm comparing him to guys like Cabrera, Braun, and Pujols.

 

"Stanton was ranked the #1 right fielder on MLB Network's Top 10 Right Now series. The Shredder and Eric Byrnes both had him at 1, Bill James at 6 cause he strikes out a lot (he had Heyward at 1 and Ben Zobrist at 2, so ...)"

 

"James also said that Stanton doesn't have a good OBP. :banghead"

 

Your response: "I didn't see it, but to be fair a .360-ish OBP isn't that spectacular for an elite power hitter when you see that guys like Cabrera have been capable of routinely achieving .400 in their prime."

 

 

 

...I guess you're simply saying his .OBP does not compare with the elite power hitters (which isn't necessarily true, really), but ultimately, the one who took things out of context was you. I don't understand why you're so confused with the Ben Zobrist reference considering the context of the conversation. It all started when someone said that Bill James ranked Stanton 6th among RF's in baseball right now with Heyward and Zobrist 1st and 2nd, respectively.

 

Based on what was said in this thread, Bill James statements had nothing to do with comparisons to other elite hitters, anyway. Thus, in the context of the conversation, I'm still not sure what you're agreeing with because he said nothing along the lines of what you brought up.

 

Why you're comparing Stanton to "Cabrera, Braun, and Pujols," I do not know. Bill James certainly wasn't. It seems like Bill James was just saying that he thinks that Stanton is the 6th best RF'er in the game because...well, no valid reason really; it's just a pretty stupid statement.

 

 

And no offense, but I highly doubt you knew what wRC+ meant. In the hypothetical scenario that you did, it's pretty weird that you made up the whole "GPA" thing. But whatever.

 

I said that it is reasonable for him to mention the .360 OBP as a downside (that's why I responded to the post about OBP and never mentioned the rankings at all).

 

 

But it's not reasonable for James to say that because James, unlike you, was actually talking about the rankings. James wasn't comparing his .OBP to other elite hitters based on what others in this thread are saying.

What else could he possibly mean then by saying Stanton's OBP is "low?" Obviously that figure is well above league average.

What else could he possibly mean then by saying Stanton's OBP is "low?" Obviously that figure is well above league average.

I think the writer meant Stanton doesn't walk enough for a power hitter.

 

Among the TOP 10 ISO leaders for qualified 500+ PA, Stanton is last in BB% and 2nd in K%.

Stanton is also last in "years alive". We seem to be either forgetting or dismissing the fact that this is Stanton just now taking the next step. Barring injury we have a reasonable expectation of improvement out of Stantion whereas Zobrist is past peak in the normal age progression.

Saying that Stanton's OBP is "weak" is speaking in relative terms. I don't see why you can't comprehend that. .360 is well above league average but if you look at other power hitters in his class, it's a figure that one would like to see improved upon.

 

I mean, the average SLG is around .400 I think. When Stanton has a SLG of .537 in 2011 it's clearly above league average, but you want to see it go beyond .600 in order to join the ranks of the best power hitters in the game. Stanton has already done that, of course, but I can certainly see why Bill James would think that the OBP leaves something to be desired.

 

And I'm well aware of wRC+. I was using GPA as an example because it is a more direct modification of OPS. Stanton's position the OPS leader board drops a little when you give OBP more weight.

 

And where on earth do you see me making the claim that Stanton is not a top-tier player in baseball? Seriously, I'd like to see where you got that from because that seems like a total straw-man. I also don't recall saying that Ben Zobrist is a better RF, either.

 

That Ben Zobrist comment of yours is extremely idiotic actually. Zobrist's OBP was only slightly better than Stanton's last year (.371 vs. .361). Obviously the vast difference in SLG would compensate for the marginal difference in OBP. I'm not comparing Stanton to guys like Zobrist; I'm comparing him to guys like Cabrera, Braun, and Pujols.

I think right now you're comparing him to guys that hit .300-.350 year in and year out. That's not him. He is more comparative to Adam Dunn in his prime, or a maybe Prince Fielder type hitter, at the same age. Hopefully he'll turn into a Cabrera w/ more power, but that's probably an unrealistic expectation.

I don't really think that's accurate. Stanton's walk rate doesn't compare to either one of those guys. Dunn walks at a 16% range while Stanton walked at only 9.2% this past season. Fielder also walked 13.2% of the time in his first good season and hit for decent average.

 

I do think that Stanton's BB% rate will go up a little in 2013, but I don't expect it to reach 13%.

Oh...now we're talking about walk rates....

How does he compare to Pukols and Cabrera's walk rate?

 

I agree with you on a lot of stuff, but this isn't one of them.

What about Piazza31's favorite stat, POPAWOPBIP? How does Stanton compare to Pujols and Cabrera there?

Oh...now we're talking about walk rates....

How does he compare to Pukols and Cabrera's walk rate?

 

I agree with you on a lot of stuff, but this isn't one of them.

Well, you brought up batting average so why can't we look at walk rates? Your argument emphasizes those hitters who have decent OBP figures but don't hit for high average. That's a bad comparison because those guys walk more.

 

Furthermore, Dunn has never had a 1.000 OPS season and has a career OPS of .870. I hope that Stanton does not perform like Dunn in his prime. And I don't get the Prince Fielder comp, either. In Fielder's good seasons with high OPS, he's always hit for decent average to supplement his walk rate.

 

The whole point is that there isn't a real correlation between Stanton and Pujols/Cabrera. Actually, Stanton and Cabrera did have similar BB% this past season, but Cabrera has been able to compensate for it with a higher average and much lower SO%. That's how Cabrera was still able to sustain an OBP close to .400.

What about Piazza31's favorite stat, POPAWOPBIP? How does Stanton compare to Pujols and Cabrera there?

God I love POPAWOPBIP....such an underrated stat.

Stanton drove in three runs yesterday for Team USA against the White Sox.

“I’ve never seen anything like it,� Mark Teixeira said when asked about Stanton’s batting practice session, “I’ve played with a lot of guys headed for the Hall of Fame, but I’ve never seen anything like it.�

 

Stanton reportedly sent towering home runs into the parking lot behind the Arizona Diamondbacks’ spring training facility. The cars were parked well beyond the fence, but the slugger came close to hitting them.

 

"I think I was OK because my car is in Tampa,� Teixeira said. “Although, with the right wind, he still might be able to hit it.�

 

Jimmy Rollins was also amazed by the power Stanton displayed. �You cannot be real. You cannot be human.� Stanton heard it all day at the USA workout.

 

http://Adminbrownsports.com/baseball/giancarlo-stanton-wows-jimmy-rollins-mark-teixeira-with-power/177698

And yet your buddy Loria will not consider offering Stanton an extension this offseason.

“I’ve never seen anything like it,� Mark Teixeira said when asked about Stanton’s batting practice session, “I’ve played with a lot of guys headed for the Hall of Fame, but I’ve never seen anything like it.�

 

Stanton reportedly sent towering home runs into the parking lot behind the Arizona Diamondbacks’ spring training facility. The cars were parked well beyond the fence, but the slugger came close to hitting them.

 

"I think I was OK because my car is in Tampa,� Teixeira said. “Although, with the right wind, he still might be able to hit it.�

 

Jimmy Rollins was also amazed by the power Stanton displayed. �You cannot be real. You cannot be human.� Stanton heard it all day at the USA workout.

 

http://Adminbrownsports.com/baseball/giancarlo-stanton-wows-jimmy-rollins-mark-teixeira-with-power/177698

 

makes you sick to think that we have someone described like this by his peers and we can only look forward to very soon hearing "the prospects we got back for Stanton are well known by people who know baseball-unlike you people. We are really up there in the minor league rankings. That guy we got back, you know, the second baseman, what, and the first baseman, who, well I know who they are-even if I do not know their names."

And yet your buddy Loria will not consider offering Stanton an extension this offseason.

 

I don't even know the guy, what makes you think he's my "buddy"?

 

As for an extension, he might be well-advised to wait for a year of Stanton's playing with his new teammates, it might turn out that he enjoys it and can see a future with this team.

makes you sick to think that we have someone described like this by his peers and we can only look forward to very soon hearing "the prospects we got back for Stanton are well known by people who know baseball-unlike you people.

 

Doesn't make me sick.

 

We either sign him at some point or we have him for '13-'14-'15-'16. If we deal him, we get a ton of prospects.

 

Who cares? I'll follow him no matter where he plays.

And yet your buddy Loria will not consider offering Stanton an extension this offseason.

 

I don't even know the guy, what makes you think he's my "buddy"?

 

As for an extension, he might be well-advised to wait for a year of Stanton's playing with his new teammates, it might turn out that he enjoys it and can see a future with this team.

Because you never say anything negative about the guy. You are right about the financials but you refuse to acknowledge this FO's incompetency in baseball operations.

 

The Marlins' willingness (or lack thereof) has absolutely nothing to do with Stanton's feelings toward his teammates. The Marlins need to make Stanton a contract offer before he refuses it. Loria himself has said that he won't consider even making an offer right now. That's incompetence. It'd be nice if you would admit it for once.

And yet your buddy Loria will not consider offering Stanton an extension this offseason.

 

I don't even know the guy, what makes you think he's my "buddy"?

 

As for an extension, he might be well-advised to wait for a year of Stanton's playing with his new teammates, it might turn out that he enjoys it and can see a future with this team.

That makes no sense.

 

It can be offered now. If he says no, it can be offered again in a year. It's not as if the Marlins are only allowed one offer.

makes you sick to think that we have someone described like this by his peers and we can only look forward to very soon hearing "the prospects we got back for Stanton are well known by people who know baseball-unlike you people.

 

Doesn't make me sick.

 

We either sign him at some point or we have him for '13-'14-'15-'16. If we deal him, we get a ton of prospects.

 

Who cares? I'll follow him no matter where he plays.

Marlins fans

I wouldn't offer Stanton a contract extension at this time. Emotions are still high. Lets allow Stanton to gel with the team and emotions simmer.

I pass on Loria negativity because there's no shortage of people who don't.

 

Whether they should make an offer now is a matter of opinion.

That's pretty illogical. So you refuse to voice any criticism against Loria just because mostly everybody here does it? You realize how immature that sounds, right?

I have a question for "..."

 

Do you think that Jeffrey Loria & co. properly handled the Miguel Cabrera situation? By that I mean Cabrera's contract/arbitration buyout status.

makes you sick to think that we have someone described like this by his peers and we can only look forward to very soon hearing "the prospects we got back for Stanton are well known by people who know baseball-unlike you people.

 

Doesn't make me sick.

 

We either sign him at some point or we have him for '13-'14-'15-'16. If we deal him, we get a ton of prospects.

 

Who cares? I'll follow him no matter where he plays.Marlins fans

 

Don't you know. We are a dying breed being whored out to zoos around the world to replicate.

 

 

We're also stupid.

And yet your buddy Loria will not consider offering Stanton an extension this offseason.

 

Loria has no intention of signing him