Loria shouldn't own an MLB team.

 

 

100% agreed

Stanton is hitting 240 and playing terrible, disinterested defense.

 

The continued love for him is unreasonable.

 

 

That's because there are many more valuable stats then AVG and his stats in those area aren't so bad.

 

His defense hasn't been that great, but the insinuation that it is because of a lack of interest is laughable.

 

Not only are you looking at the wrong stats, you're also placing more weight on the smaller sample size of a difficult and injury influenced season over 3 seasons (1300 PA) of a larger sample size of data.

 

Basing your conclusions on small sample sizes is something you're continually guilty of and repeating that mistake is unacceptable.

 

 

The season is more than half over. And the Great One has been in the league for more than three years.

 

Stanton's defense has regressed substantially. His muffing grounders and his now erratic arm cannot be blamed on leg injuries.

 

Stanton's plate discipline is no better now than his first year and a half.

 

Stanton is a big strong guy and a terrific athlete who looks great with his clothes off. (Thanks ESPN) He guesses at the plate because he does not recognize pitches well. When he guesses right and/or the pitcher makes a big mistake, Stanton can run into one and do awesome things.

 

But Stanton has not progressed much, if at all, as a baseball player.

 

He should have.

We should trade him in a 3-way deal and get Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller in return.

Even when "The Great One" is struggling, he leads the team in OPS (which now sits at .831). May not be very impressive this year, but considering his average is the lowest it's been in his career (which apparently is the only stat that matters), he's drawing walks - something that's amazing he can do considering that he doesn't have any pitch recognition, it appears. When he does chase, it's probably the pressure he puts on himself to be THE GUY in this lineup - that's a lot to ask of a 23 year old, and it's not like he's the only one failing this season offensively. He can't do everything himself.

 

Defensively, yes, he is having the worst year of his career. Somehow, his range factor is up at about what he did last season, but he has made some crappy throws, I will give you that one. His most recent muffling error, though, can be attributed to a crappy field condition, considering it was a transfer error which would suggest a wet ball that slipped. One instance, I know, but you seem to be a fan of looking at small sample sizes rather than the whole field of work.

Stanton is hitting 240 and playing terrible, disinterested defense.

 

The continued love for him is unreasonable.

 

 

That's because there are many more valuable stats then AVG and his stats in those area aren't so bad.

 

His defense hasn't been that great, but the insinuation that it is because of a lack of interest is laughable.

 

Not only are you looking at the wrong stats, you're also placing more weight on the smaller sample size of a difficult and injury influenced season over 3 seasons (1300 PA) of a larger sample size of data.

 

Basing your conclusions on small sample sizes is something you're continually guilty of and repeating that mistake is unacceptable.

 

 

 

Stanton's plate discipline is no better now than his first year and a half.

 

Stanton is a big strong guy and a terrific athlete who looks great with his clothes off. (Thanks ESPN) He guesses at the plate because he does not recognize pitches well. When he guesses right and/or the pitcher makes a big mistake, Stanton can run into one and do awesome things.

 

But Stanton has not progressed much, if at all, as a baseball player.

 

He should have.

 

 

 

This season, he has his lowest strikeout percentage and his highest walk percentage of his career. He is swinging at fewer pitches outside the strike zone than he ever has before. Come on now.

The season is more than half over. And the Great One has been in the league for more than three years.

 

Stanton's defense has regressed substantially. His muffing grounders and his now erratic arm cannot be blamed on leg injuries.

 

Stanton's plate discipline is no better now than his first year and a half.

 

Stanton is a big strong guy and a terrific athlete who looks great with his clothes off. (Thanks ESPN) He guesses at the plate because he does not recognize pitches well. When he guesses right and/or the pitcher makes a big mistake, Stanton can run into one and do awesome things.

 

But Stanton has not progressed much, if at all, as a baseball player.

 

He should have.

 

 

You have continually criticized Stanton on his performances of this season, this being 2013. He was previously in the majors in 2010, 2011 and 2012. That is 3 seasons (as I said) that would be used to compare to the 2013 season to justify your claims. That would be the small sample size (over a half a season) vs. the larger sample size. The issue might not even be that with you though, I'm starting to think it is Stanton vs. the Stanton you think he should be. That would be even crazier though because you have made posts that had Stanton as the missing guy in the 2014 lineup with Ozuna, Yelich, Marisnick and LoMo in there. That would also mean you're excluding Stanton because he doesn't meet your overall expectations even when he's still better then the other guys? That is just so flawed that it reeks of nothing but irrational personal bias that is even sadder coming from a Marlins fan too.

 

You criticize his plate discipline based on what, your own eyes? That's fair enough to start with, but you then have to go into the numbers to see if your perception matches up with reality. You are talking about his first year and a half (2010/2011) and you've slept since then. All you have to remember is your general perception of your memories from the time, but do the numbers back that up? You've attempted to use none. Why? You don't believe in them? You want to come into a Stanton thread, criticize areas of his game and then not back it up with any kind of evidence? We just have to assume you have a scout worthy eye, a photographic memory and a non bias point of view. I don't think you're going to win on that one.

 

Stanton is walking more this year (13.8% - 8th in all of Baseball) due to an inferior lineup that sees him as the only real threat. It'd be nice for Yelich and LoMo to be able to protect him, but the league doesn't give a toss about them just yet. They know what Stanton can do and they pitch him so. His K rate is actually down this season too and down from 31.1% in 2010 to 26.4% this year. 2012 was also down from 2010 numbers. He's also receiving a career low % in pitches seen inside the strike zone. Why let Stanton beat you when you've got much easier outs around him? You can't underestimate how bad this hitting lineup has been this year, some of the team numbers are going to rival 50+ year old records. They're historically bad and being carried by the pitching.

 

Stanton hasn't progressed this season, nope, he's had injuries and been the only threat in a historically bad lineup. Once again... your criticism seems to stem from your own expectations of what he should be and you're completely under valuing him. You've posted that Ruggiano has around 3 years of MLB time left in him and praised his defense. That was before his recent small sample slump though and, since then, you've had an OF that didn't include him, but didn't include Stanton either. Your love for Ruggiano is likely based on the low expectations you had from him when he first joined us and how well he hit last year. Ruggiano, the man that xBABIP says was the #1 luckiest player in ALL of Baseball for players with more than 300 PAs in 2012. Plays good defense, sure, and Stanton hasn't had a good defense year. You've also praised Mathis on his defense so clearly you value those players quite highly. That's understandable, but you give them a pass on their hitting, but, in your eyes, Stanton doesn't deserve a pass because he's not playing good defense or hitting. The eyes that are biased, have their own high expectations and believe Stanton is not as good as Ozuna, Yelich, Marisnick or LoMo. Based on what, batting average? BOOM! That is the sound of our heads exploding.

 

Your quips about "great one" and "stripping for ESPN" further show your bias and vendetta against him. I'm sorry that he has let you down, I'm sure it keeps him awake at nights, but we know what we've got here even if you don't. Let go of your irrational feelings and open your mind to see how good Stanton really is. The rest of the world does, come join us... its nice out here.

Even when "The Great One" is struggling, he leads the team in OPS (which now sits at .831). May not be very impressive this year, but considering his average is the lowest it's been in his career (which apparently is the only stat that matters), he's drawing walks - something that's amazing he can do considering that he doesn't have any pitch recognition, it appears. When he does chase, it's probably the pressure he puts on himself to be THE GUY in this lineup - that's a lot to ask of a 23 year old, and it's not like he's the only one failing this season offensively. He can't do everything himself.

 

Defensively, yes, he is having the worst year of his career. Somehow, his range factor is up at about what he did last season, but he has made some crappy throws, I will give you that one. His most recent muffling error, though, can be attributed to a crappy field condition, considering it was a transfer error which would suggest a wet ball that slipped. One instance, I know, but you seem to be a fan of looking at small sample sizes rather than the whole field of work.

 

 

Trends are a quite reliable statistical measure.

 

Stanton is not trending up.

I freely admit to judging Stanton based on the potential I and everyone else saw two years ago.

 

I thought he was a future Hall of Famer.

 

But his hitting has not improved (despite "improved" statistics based on his having no batting order protection) and his fielding has regressed.

 

Stanton is no longer the best 23 and under player in baseball.

 

Or the second best.

 

Or the third best.

 

Or the fourth best.

 

In fact, if you include pitchers, he is not the best 23 and under player on his team.

 

He'd bat sixth for the Tigers and Baltimore and seventh for the Dodgers.

 

Stanton is fun to watch and certainly worth having at 500K a year. But IMO he is not a cornerstone franchise player. And if other teams think he is, then trade him for some infield prospect and more young pitching.

So, you give Stanton no credit for his increased walks because of the lackup of lineup protection he is. Yet you also criticize him for his hitting stats even though it is also related to the lackup of lineup protection he is? That doesn't make sense when they're related. He sees less pitches inside the strike zone because why should he? Then the 23 year old Stanton begins to overthink it and he has a lesser performance.

 

His placing in relation to the Tigers, Orioles, Dodgers or under 23 year olds in Baseball is not relevant to judging him on his performances. You're once again judging based on your own expectations of him. It is not relevant whatsoever! You judge a player on his own merits, it doesn't matter if he's not the best under 23 year old on this or any other team.

 

He is still our best hitter and most of us fully believe his numbers will come back with no injuries, more lineup protection and more personal experience of dealing with his own situation. Besides, putting Stanton in those lineups with the players around him would give him the protection he won't get on this team until Yelich, LoMo etc. prove themselves as being a worthy enough threat. They haven't had the time to do so yet.

 

He still has 3 years of good numbers and 2013 of lower numbers, but still good stats on a potentially historically bad team. Besides, none of this explains why you'd exclude him from your expectation of a future lineup. Do you really expect Yelich, Marisnick, Ozuna and LoMo to have better numbers?

 

You also mention about trends, but small sample sizes are not reliable enough to form a trend or a good enough pattern. Do you really believe a 23 year old Stanton, with all the issues of this year, is trending downwards? You can't ignore the larger sample size.

Most 23 year old hitters are either still in the minors or just first getting the call up. Stanton already has 100 home runs to his name.

 

Criticizing him in any manner for an "off" year by his standards is ludicrous.

Trends, rg, are based on a 3 year scale, not 3 months. Stanton trended upwards from 2010-2012, and he happened to have possibility the most severe injury of his career to date this year. He's allowed to have a down year, especially on such a, as has been stated, "historically bad team." He's the best hitter on the worst offense in the game this season, and along with the injury sustained, things didn't help. He also got off to his usual slow start, that didn't help things. We're you here in June, when he put up a slash line of .296/.342/.577/.920? I bet you were singing his praises then. He was one of the biggest reasons if not THE biggest reason that we won 15 games in June and pushed ourselves away from possibly eclipsing the 1962 Mets for worst team in the modern era.

So, you give Stanton no credit for his increased walks because of the lackup of lineup protection he is. Yet you also criticize him for his hitting stats even though it is also related to the lackup of lineup protection he is? That doesn't make sense when they're related. He sees less pitches inside the strike zone because why should he? Then the 23 year old Stanton begins to overthink it and he has a lesser performance.

 

His placing in relation to the Tigers, Orioles, Dodgers or under 23 year olds in Baseball is not relevant to judging him on his performances. You're once again judging based on your own expectations of him. It is not relevant whatsoever! You judge a player on his own merits, it doesn't matter if he's not the best under 23 year old on this or any other team.

 

He is still our best hitter and most of us fully believe his numbers will come back with no injuries, more lineup protection and more personal experience of dealing with his own situation. Besides, putting Stanton in those lineups with the players around him would give him the protection he won't get on this team until Yelich, LoMo etc. prove themselves as being a worthy enough threat. They haven't had the time to do so yet.

 

He still has 3 years of good numbers and 2013 of lower numbers, but still good stats on a potentially historically bad team. Besides, none of this explains why you'd exclude him from your expectation of a future lineup. Do you really expect Yelich, Marisnick, Ozuna and LoMo to have better numbers?

 

You also mention about trends, but small sample sizes are not reliable enough to form a trend or a good enough pattern. Do you really believe a 23 year old Stanton, with all the issues of this year, is trending downwards? You can't ignore the larger sample size.

 

 

Stanton is our best hitter.

 

I expected the Marlins to trade Stanton for prospects to fill the infield holes. So I excluded him from future lineups.

 

But Loria is in love, as our many others here, so Stanton won't be traded.

 

Worse, even if Ozuna comes back strong, It will be Yelich Ozuna Stanton left to right when it should be Stanton, Yelich, Ozuna.

 

Love obscures vision and can lead to bad decisions.

You argue that we're defending Stanton because of "love" when we're defending him because his stats make him worth defending. We'd be willing to criticize any player that deserves it and no one is immune from that. It's a cold business and we want the Marlins to win as a team and any player not worth his place will get the Juan Pierre treatment on these forums. The point is that Stanton is VERY much worth his place even after a down season for him. He's still better then others. To think that a 23 year old player won't battle back (as he could do in these last 2 months) from one difficult/injured season is baffling.

 

The cornerstone player comments are just irrelevant again. That's just you, once again, expressing disappointment that Stanton hasn't met your own personal standards. No one cares about that, you can keep that to yourself.

 

You're quick to dismiss our comments as "love" even though we have numbers on our side. It's actually more viable that your comments are filled with "hate" because of what has been said before. Learn to strip the emotion out of it and focus on the numbers of the players. After all, the emotion should be for the Marlins as a team, right? The players are just a means to an end.

What Loria should do is sign some hitters this offseason to compliment Stanton if he really believes in the team.

 

The outfield alignment is irrelevant.

What Loria should do is sign some hitters this offseason to compliment Stanton if he really believes in the team.

 

The outfield alignment is irrelevant.

 

 

Thing is, where will he put them? Unless you mean on a one year deal, of course.

What Loria should do is sign some hitters this offseason to compliment Stanton if he really believes in the team.

 

The outfield alignment is irrelevant.

 

 

Only if one cares not about defense.

What Loria should do is sign some hitters this offseason to compliment Stanton if he really believes in the team.

 

The outfield alignment is irrelevant.

 

 

Only if one cares not about defense.

 

 

His defense DOES NOT MATTER. /Moneyball

ArtisticHate ftw.

Stanton in July 2013 through 07-27-2013:

 

.326 BABIP | 22.2 BB% | 27.3 K% | .390 wOBA

 

Very encouraging numbers.

If you think Stanton in RF is a problem, why would he be any better shifting to LF?

 

#1, he's the franchise player and the veteran. Unless he's absolutely awful out there (which he isn't), I don't understand what the purpose of moving him would be other than upsetting him some more.

 

More importantly, Marlins Park is very spacious in LF, too. It's not as if the move would cover up some sort of liability in range. The occasional stupid errors he makes where he bobbles the ball or overthrows a cutoff man are going to happen in LF, as well.

He's slid a bit this season? Good so all it'll take is 10 years 190 million instead of 200.

 

Meanwhile, yawn.

He's slid a bit this season? Good so all it'll take is 10 years 190 million instead of 200.

 

Meanwhile, yawn.

 

 

.849 OPS is the worst, yo.

Make that an .875 OPS now

We have Marcell Ozuna and Jake Marisnick now so fuck this guy.

I'm tired of seeing Stanton on base all the time. This selfish prick needs to spend more time in the dug out talking to his teammates.