Bullpens are volatile. Great bullpen guys one year become terrible the next (Hello Eric Gagne, K-Rod, Brian Fuentes, Joba Chamberlain).

 

A #2 starting pitcher is WAAAAAAAAAAAY more important to get than a bullpen. This year was unfortunate, but we should be able to find cheap, good labor for the bullpen next year. Don't need to spend outlandish money for bullpen guys who may or may not be good.

 

The team I think we need to be talking to is the Tampa Bay Rays. They have 7 starting pitchers that are MLB caliber. Price, Shields, Garza, Davis, Niemann, Hellickson, Sonnanstine.

 

One (and more likely two) of these guys is going to be traded this offseason, and it's known that Hellickson and Price are staying, and Garza will stay because he's arbitration eligible for a while. Shields probably will stay, but if the Rays feel they desperately need a 1st baseman (Pena is a DH, and their other 1B, Dan Johnson, is batting .194), then we should seriously consider a deal with them to send Gaby and a pretty good prospects over (Osvaldo Martinez+ a C- prospect), and maybe we can get a deal done for Shields.

 

If not, we should take our efforts to go after Niemann. He's not an accomplished #2, but he would be a MUCH better #4 than anything we have right now, and would be challenging Anibal for the #3 spot. I'm no trade expert, but I don't think it would take much more than Gaby to get him. Hell, we may be able to snag an extra prospect on top of Niemann for Gaby.

 

Erick's got a great idea, but it's starting pitching we need from the Rays, not a 2nd baseman like Rodriguez.

I'm going to break a lot of you guys hearts when I do the offseason salary and arbitration guide, but you guys can continue with these wild "signings" for now.

 

 

 

I had the team signing 3 players, and I'd think they'd all come pretty cheap.

Trading away Coghlan to one team and then acquiring Sean Rodriguez from the Rays to play second base doesn't seem realistic to me, nor does it seem like a wise move.

 

Coghlan is still fairly cheap and is a better player than Rodriguez is. Not to mention that Coghlan is left-handed. Coghlan is probably better defensively too.

 

If the Marlins are going to be downgrading offense at 2B in the case of Uggla possibly leaving, they aren't going to downgrade it further by going from Coghlan to Rodriguez.

 

You generally don't seem teams making moves like this under those circumstances.

Additionally, I don't see the Marlins making any big earthshaking moves for starting pitching, unless they deal Uggla. Even then, it will probably be someone making below $6 million, but it will most likely be a young arm making near minimum. Otherwise, they'll go with what they have (using guys like Sanabia to fill the gaps) and at most bring in someone like Nate Robertson again if spring training starting pitching is as embarrassing as it was before 2010.

 

I wouldn't even be surprised if they deal Uggla for bullpen help, while that is not something I agree with.

I wouldn't even be surprised if they deal Uggla for bullpen help, while that is not something I agree with.

 

They aren't going to trade a 4 WAR second baseman for 75 innings and a prospect. The "worst" case scenario with Uggla is paying him his arbitration next year, and netting two first round draft picks with easy Type A compensation after 2011. They have the money for this. I think collectively, Marlins fans have to stop thinking about 'saving bucks, getting younger,' and flat out have to start thinking 'getting better.' We can move Uggla to get better, if we get a Wade Davis package or something like that. But moving him for a reliever and some prospects two years away is not getting better. That's a net loss, even if you have money to sign other nominal pieces to fill holes with Uggla's expected salary.

 

Stadium is to close. I think this issue is massively overblown. If they can get a starter (especially a lefty), they will move him. If they don't, they keep him. Really that easy of a situation and one I am excited to see play out because I think any avenue they go here, the decision will be sound and make sense. We shall see.

I actually do not see any scenario in which Uggla would not be in the openning lineup of the new staduim

Maybe if he is injured...

Otherwise The Marlins FO consider him money in the bank

I'm a diehard Uggla fan so I would rather keep him since we really aren't going to get his kind of production from anyone else besides Stanton or Hanley especially from a 2B but I wouldn't be opposed to trading him.

 

Here are the possible scenarios in my opinion and they really aren't going to make fans happy either way but they could make our team better.

 

Keep Uggla.

Either through arbitration or resign him through 2014-2015.

 

Trade Uggla.

 

Trade him in the offseason for a proven number two, and for Uggla we should get plenty of offers knowing the kind of offense he can put up.

 

Trade Gaby.

 

Plenty of teams would be interested(Tampa) in a cheap, good hitting 1B who could put up an OPS over .800 and score/drive in a good amount of runs. We could package someone with him aswell like a C Prospect and reel in that number 2 Starting Pitcher we were looking for then we could move Logan to 1st where he plays above average defense and would have a place to put Coghlan in the future if Dominguez turns out well without having to give up Uggla.

 

Trade Coghlan.

 

This is less likely to happen after his great Rookie Season and an injury ending his season this season (:banghead) but Chris packaged with a Sean West or Chris Volstad could get us that number two pitcher as well.

 

Package Volstad or West.

 

This is definitely the least likely off all the deals mentioned but I feel the two young pitchers who both had good rookie seasons are worth a good bundle due to their age. I'm not saying to package them together but to throw in another unneeded prospect with them to try to get the 2nd Ace. The prospect could be an outfielder like Peterson or Cousins or the previously highly regarded Issac Galloway, Jake Smolinski or Ryan Tucker.

 

Their are many other possible options but these are what I feel are going to happen and anyone feel free to add on or list any possible flaws in these deals.

This team gets rid of Uggla and I lose faith in the Front Office forever. I'll be a fan, but getting rid of UGgla? Might as well let JJ, Stanton Hanley lomo all go cause I doubt with a new stadium team will spend. You get revenue money, put it towards team now. Geez

 

Really? You'll lose faith in the FO forever? Wow, how long have you been a fan? You stuck around after Beckett, Willis, and Cabrera were traded and you'd leave after Uggla? Comical.

This team gets rid of Uggla and I lose faith in the Front Office forever. I'll be a fan, but getting rid of UGgla? Might as well let JJ, Stanton Hanley lomo all go cause I doubt with a new stadium team will spend. You get revenue money, put it towards team now. Geez

 

Really? You'll lose faith in the FO forever? Wow, how long have you been a fan? You stuck around after Beckett, Willis, and Cabrera were traded and you'd leave after Uggla? Comical.

 

Actually I became a Expos fan in like 02 or 03. Became a marlins fan again in 08. I never said I would leave the team as a fan again, HELL NO. Uggla is just my fav Marlin... sometimes I don't think straight when peeps mention Uggla+trade.

The team has PR issues to attend to as well. Signing Uggla and Nolasco goes a long way.

 

Johnson, Nolasco, Sanchez is the foundation for a serious rotation and I think that Volstad is not a settled issue

 

The team has no arms in the organization to make a bullpen out of. The team needs to acquire some. Without doing so, the team will remain the 06-07-08-09-10 promising also-ran.

You forgot Sanabia.

You forgot Sanabia.

 

Gotta work on his brick wall though. =/

This team gets rid of Uggla and I lose faith in the Front Office forever. I'll be a fan, but getting rid of UGgla? Might as well let JJ, Stanton Hanley lomo all go cause I doubt with a new stadium team will spend. You get revenue money, put it towards team now. Geez

 

Really? You'll lose faith in the FO forever? Wow, how long have you been a fan? You stuck around after Beckett, Willis, and Cabrera were traded and you'd leave after Uggla? Comical.

 

Actually I became a Expos fan in like 02 or 03. Became a marlins fan again in 08. I never said I would leave the team as a fan again, HELL NO. Uggla is just my fav Marlin... sometimes I don't think straight when peeps mention Uggla+trade.

Ok, I would hope so. I've been following this team since the beginning and it's been frustrating at times but this type of frustration (salaries,etc) will be more warranted if the wallet isn't opened up more once the new stadium is here.

The team has no arms in the organization to make a bullpen out of.

 

What?

 

Marinez, Ceda, and Jennings all destroyed AA this year. They are really close. They absolutely need to buy a real lefty for next year (or keep Ohman), and bring in another veteran right hander to help Hensley, Sanches, and Badenhop (or maybe just keep new super charged Veras, i.e. you keep Ohman and Veras and you have 5 guys who have performed well for this team already), but there are major reinforcements on the way. And that's not accounting for West, Miller, Sanabia, and even Koehler, who someone may be converted into a reliever this offseason. And Nunez will likely be converted into a younger reliever as well to a contending team.

 

There is a ton of hope here. This is the best young group coming up we've ever had. I'm much more worried about Nolasco and Anibal's long term health because of their injuries and workload, and the huge inconsistencies with Volstad, Miller, and West. This team needs a # 2 or # 3 lefty starter badly.

Our bullpen is really weird. The current guys in the pen, if you look at their #'s, you'd think our pen would be good. In terms of overall #'s, Hensley, Nunez, Veras, Ohman, Sanches, and Badenhop would all be in just about any bullpen in baseball, right now.

The team has no arms in the organization to make a bullpen out of.

 

What?

 

Marinez, Ceda, and Jennings all destroyed AA this year. They are really close. They absolutely need to buy a real lefty for next year (or keep Ohman), and bring in another veteran right hander to help Hensley, Sanches, and Badenhop (or maybe just keep new super charged Veras, i.e. you keep Ohman and Veras and you have 5 guys who have performed well for this team already), but there are major reinforcements on the way. And that's not accounting for West, Miller, Sanabia, and even Koehler, who someone may be converted into a reliever this offseason. And Nunez will likely be converted into a younger reliever as well to a contending team.

 

There is a ton of hope here. This is the best young group coming up we've ever had. I'm much more worried about Nolasco and Anibal's long term health because of their injuries and workload, and the huge inconsistencies with Volstad, Miller, and West. This team needs a # 2 or # 3 lefty starter badly.

 

 

Maybe Ceda is ready to contribute next year, but Marinez had like 15 appearances in AA and Jenning's WHIP is terrible and K:BB ratio is not encouraging. So the point remains that the arms are not in the organization to make a bullpen out of... next year.

Our bullpen is really weird. The current guys in the pen, if you look at their #'s, you'd think our pen would be good. In terms of overall #'s, Hensley, Nunez, Veras, Ohman, Sanches, and Badenhop would all be in just about any bullpen in baseball, right now.

 

 

If you look at their numbers, you would think they should be average. But yes, all of those guys would be in other bullpens. None of those guys (except Ohman) would be as far up the food chain as they are. Neither Nunez or Hensley would be the closer, Veras and Sanches would not be go-to set up men, etc.

Our bullpen is really weird. The current guys in the pen, if you look at their #'s, you'd think our pen would be good. In terms of overall #'s, Hensley, Nunez, Veras, Ohman, Sanches, and Badenhop would all be in just about any bullpen in baseball, right now.

 

 

If you look at their numbers, you would think they should be average.

 

And they are. The team's ERA, WHIP, and OPS against is basically dead-exact to the average NL bullpen.

 

The problem this year has been that, when they do give up hits and runs, it's at the most unopportunistic time. They give up the runs in close ball games, and shut them out when it's not close.

 

Unclutch, or just the victim of random?

Our bullpen is really weird. The current guys in the pen, if you look at their #'s, you'd think our pen would be good. In terms of overall #'s, Hensley, Nunez, Veras, Ohman, Sanches, and Badenhop would all be in just about any bullpen in baseball, right now.

 

 

If you look at their numbers, you would think they should be average.

 

And they are. The team's ERA, WHIP, and OPS against is basically dead-exact to the average NL bullpen.

 

The problem this year has been that, when they do give up hits and runs, it's at the most unopportunistic time. They give up the runs in close ball games, and shut them out when it's not close.

 

Unclutch, or just the victim of random?

Or a mixture of the two.

Our bullpen is really weird. The current guys in the pen, if you look at their #'s, you'd think our pen would be good. In terms of overall #'s, Hensley, Nunez, Veras, Ohman, Sanches, and Badenhop would all be in just about any bullpen in baseball, right now.

 

 

If you look at their numbers, you would think they should be average. But yes, all of those guys would be in other bullpens. None of those guys (except Ohman) would be as far up the food chain as they are. Neither Nunez or Hensley would be the closer, Veras and Sanches would not be go-to set up men, etc.

 

 

What would you do to fix the pen?

 

Also...since we've talked about the Rays and our need to improve our pitching...does anyone think there's a chance/think it's wise to trade Logan Morrison (who can play 1B) to the Rays for a guy like Jeremy Hellickson? Hellickson would be a #2 next year I think with ace potential.

And they are. The team's ERA, WHIP, and OPS against is basically dead-exact to the average NL bullpen.

 

The problem this year has been that, when they do give up hits and runs, it's at the most unopportunistic time. They give up the runs in close ball games, and shut them out when it's not close.

 

Unclutch, or just the victim of random?

 

 

They are average in that they are all unexceptional. There needs to be a great guy to get tough outs. Average guys can start innings.

The relievers not named Leo are 2 out 18 in save opportunities. Tank and Hensley lead the way each 0 for 3.

The relievers not named Leo are 2 out 18 in save opportunities. Tank and Hensley lead the way each 0 for 3.

 

Not exactly. I'll take Hensley for example because I don't feel like going through all the game logs.

 

Hensley has 3 blown saves but none of them are actually save opportunities. All of his blown saves were in the 8th inning, so it's not actually being 0-3 in save opportunities. To be more fair, he's got 3 blown saves and 21 holds.

The relievers not named Leo are 2 out 18 in save opportunities. Tank and Hensley lead the way each 0 for 3.

 

 

 

The fact that Hensley is 0/3 is absolutely irrelevant.

As a matter of fact, that's all pretty irrelevant. Middle relievers don't get saves. They get holds, which in the case of Hensley who usually goes a full inning like a closer, are just as valuable as saves.

The relievers not named Leo are 2 out 18 in save opportunities. Tank and Hensley lead the way each 0 for 3.

 

 

 

The fact that Hensley is 0/3 is absolutely irrelevant.

As a matter of fact, that's all pretty irrelevant. Middle relievers don't get saves. They get holds, which in the case of Hensley who usually goes a full inning like a closer, are just as valuable as saves.

 

Even Hensley said pitching the 8th and 9th inning aren't that different aside from "shaking the catcher's hand after the inning his over".