August 27, 201015 yr So many awesome lineups make me happy. So few awesome starting pitchers make me sad. Maybe you can point out all of the rotations that are better. Johnson - Nolasco - Sanchez are a pretty good 3 starters. Sanabia looks like he has some good potential. Yeah Volstad sucks, but hopefully they don't have to use him. We're competing with the likes of Halladay/Oswalt/Hamels, Lincecum/Cain/Zito, Carpenter/Wainwright/Garcia, Santana/Pelfrey/Maine, Hanson/Hudson/Lowe/Jurjjens/Minor, Volquez/Cueto/Leake, and Latos/Garland/Leblanc/Richard, and this is just a small part of the national league competition. JJ is good, but Nolasco is too inconsistent to be a #2 and Sanchez is what you should expect from a #3 starter, not to mention we haven't had a consistent 4 or 5 starter for years. We're WAY behind in the starting pitching race in the National League, hell the only top 3 starters we're ahead of in the National League are the Mets and Nationals, and even the Mets is somewhat debatable. Let's face it, this starting pitching core needs an upgrade quick. Nolasco and Anibal are better than some of the pitchers you listed. Point is, we have 3 solid starters; the backend of our rotation is very iffy though.
August 27, 201015 yr I'd say our 3 would rank in the middle of the pack among all the top 3's in the National League. My point being in order to make that leap from the slightly above .500 team we've been the last 3 years to playoff team, the starting pitching needs to without a doubt be shored up, and that will probably involve trading some very good position players such as Gaby Sanchez.
August 27, 201015 yr So many awesome lineups make me happy. So few awesome starting pitchers make me sad. Maybe you can point out all of the rotations that are better. Johnson - Nolasco - Sanchez are a pretty good 3 starters. Sanabia looks like he has some good potential. Yeah Volstad sucks, but hopefully they don't have to use him. We're competing with the likes of Halladay/Oswalt/Hamels, Lincecum/Cain/Zito, Carpenter/Wainwright/Garcia, Santana/Pelfrey/Maine, Hanson/Hudson/Lowe/Jurjjens/Minor, Volquez/Cueto/Leake, and Latos/Garland/Leblanc/Richard, and this is just a small part of the national league competition. JJ is good, but Nolasco is too inconsistent to be a #2 and Sanchez is what you should expect from a #3 starter, not to mention we haven't had a consistent 4 or 5 starter for years. We're WAY behind in the starting pitching race in the National League, hell the only top 3 starters we're ahead of in the National League are the Mets and Nationals, and even the Mets is somewhat debatable. Let's face it, this starting pitching core needs an upgrade quick. Nolasco and Anibal are better than some of the pitchers you listed. Point is, we have 3 solid starters; the backend of our rotation is very iffy though. We have 1 solid starter
August 27, 201015 yr Author Ricky is 4.22 this year and over 5.00 last year. Thats not close to 3.50-4.00 You must remember he had a horrible start to the season, got sent down, then did very well in the second half.
August 27, 201015 yr Author We have 1 solid starter We have more than just JJ as a solid starter. Nolasco when he's on, more than solid. Anibal, save today's game, is pretty good.
August 27, 201015 yr Just for the record because someone brought this up, here are Rickey's last 3 years by half: Year W L ERA GS IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP SO/9 SO/BB 2008-I 10 4 3.70 18 116.2 109 53 48 16 30 88 1.191 6.8 2.93 2008-II 5 4 3.29 14 95.2 83 35 35 12 12 98 0.993 9.2 8.17 2009-I 6 7 5.76 16 90.2 105 63 58 12 21 90 1.390 8.9 4.29 2009-II 7 2 4.39 15 94.1 83 48 46 11 23 105 1.124 10.0 4.57 2010-I 9 6 4.55 18 110.2 121 59 56 20 22 94 1.292 7.6 4.27 2010-II 5 2 3.40 7 45.0 41 17 17 3 8 53 1.089 10.6 6.63
August 27, 201015 yr I'd say our 3 would rank in the middle of the pack among all the top 3's in the National League. My point being in order to make that leap from the slightly above .500 team we've been the last 3 years to playoff team, the starting pitching needs to without a doubt be shored up, and that will probably involve trading some very good position players such as Gaby Sanchez. Gaby Sanchez? I don't think so man...Yes, he's a solid player, but he's not going to get you a real upgrade for your starting pitching. Besides, I like Gaby. His skill set reminds me of Jeff Conine.
August 27, 201015 yr I like our rotation, but I agree with Dim. We need a legit number 2. Which is why I'm an advocate of trading Uggla for a legit number 2 pitcher. Then, we can bump Sanchez down to the third slot and Nolasco to the 4th. Then, have Volstad, who doesn't suck, Miller, West, Sanabia, someone else fight for the 5th spot.
August 27, 201015 yr What is this trading Uggla and Gaby idea that people have all of a sudden? Who exactly will replace either of them in the lineup? Dominguez isn't a sure thing and even if he is, he won't be ready anytime soon. It doesn't make sense to deduce that just because we have a good lineup, we can afford to trade away hitters. If we trade away those hitters, our lineup doesn't look as good as it does now. Anibal has pitched fine and Nolasco is an innings eater who at worst is a number 3-4 guy. JJ is JJ and we have a few guys who can mix and match for the last 2 spots. If anything, it's the bullpen that requires attention - but even that has improved past the point of emergency.
August 27, 201015 yr Basically, I'm in a wait and see mode with Ricky, although I very much hope the Marlins in the offseason look for some good, cheap pitching options that have a chance to immediately come in and produce like a #2 guy. Sadly, these generally don't exist unless you're willing to give up Uggla, and maybe not even then.
August 27, 201015 yr Basically, I'm in a wait and see mode with Ricky, although I very much hope the Marlins in the offseason look for some good, cheap pitching options that have a chance to immediately come in and produce like a #2 guy. Sadly, these generally don't exist unless you're willing to give up Uggla, and maybe not even then. I think that's what he is suggesting.
August 27, 201015 yr Ricky is 4.22 this year and over 5.00 last year. Thats not close to 3.50-4.00 You must remember he had a horrible start to the season, got sent down, then did very well in the second half. Why does that matter? The point is that Ricky Nolasco had an ERA which effected our games over 5.00 last year. Statistically speaking, for every good game where he finishes with a 0.00 ERA in 9 innings, he has a bad game where he finishes with a 10.00 ERA in 9 innings. If he would've continued that pitching into this season, it would've been significant, but he didnt. So all he did was prove that he's streaky/inconsistent. Last year he helped this team just as much as he hurt it. In fact, his absence in the minors probably hurt this team more than anything. Again, to reitterate the point, he helped this team, which is great. But he also hurt the team. His amazing pitching after being called up didnt offset the damage he did in the beginning of the season. He's not conducive for a winning team as a #2 or #3 pitcher.
August 27, 201015 yr I'm in favor of looking in free agency, exploring a trade, whatever. All I know is if I'm a part of the Marlins front office, I'm looking for some way to get myself another top notch starting pitcher before next season starts. Next year I'm thinking more of looking into free agency and trying to find a cheap option. If Loria would dig into his pockets just a tiny bit, this team could get that extra starting pitcher we desperately need. Honestly, I don't have a plan, as there's many ways to go about it, but I'd be upset if I didn't at least hear some rumors this upcoming offseason about the Marlins looking into signing or trading for a good starting pitcher. Also Why does that matter? The point is that Ricky Nolasco had an ERA which effected our games over 5.00 last year. Statistically speaking, for every good game where he finishes with a 0.00 ERA in 9 innings, he has a bad game where he finishes with a 10.00 ERA in 9 innings. If he would've continued that pitching into this season, it would've been significant, but he didnt. So all he did was prove that he's streaky/inconsistent. Last year he helped this team just as much as he hurt it. In fact, his absence in the minors probably hurt this team more than anything. Again, to reitterate the point, he helped this team, which is great. But he also hurt the team. His amazing pitching after being called up didnt offset the damage he did in the beginning of the season. He's not conducive for a winning team as a #2 or #3 pitcher. This times 1000
August 27, 201015 yr Author Why does that matter? The point is that Ricky Nolasco had an ERA which effected our games over 5.00 last year. Statistically speaking, for every good game where he finishes with a 0.00 ERA in 9 innings, he has a bad game where he finishes with a 10.00 ERA in 9 innings. Was just pointing out that his ERA was inflated from the first half is all. He was definitely well improved in the second half, but yes, inconsistent. Last year he helped this team just as much as he hurt it. In fact, his absence in the minors probably hurt this team more than anything. Again, to reitterate the point, he helped this team, which is great. But he also hurt the team. His amazing pitching after being called up didnt offset the damage he did in the beginning of the season. I have to disagree with the bold part. If he had NOT been sent down, he would have most likely continued to struggle, probably get demoted to the bullpen, lose a lot of confidence, etc. Everything else, you do have a point, I will agree.
August 27, 201015 yr This will definitely be an interesting offseason.. while we will stay frugal, you have to get the excitement level up heading in to the new stadium. But I really like the balance in the lineup.. you have your patient hitters (gaby, logan), the power bats (stanton, hopefully uggla), your prototypical #3 hitter in Hanley and a great hitter at he top in Cogs. Should be fun. i'd love to get a real closer.. it would be amazing how much better this pen would be if everyone moved down a role.
August 27, 201015 yr I have to disagree with the bold part. If he had NOT been sent down, he would have most likely continued to struggle, probably get demoted to the bullpen, lose a lot of confidence, etc. Everything else, you do have a point, I will agree. You're not understanding what I mean. Had Nolasco not been bad enough to be sent down, we wouldnt be searching for other pitchers to take his place/running a short rotation. It hurts this team just as much when Ricky is not pitching (when you dont have anything to replace him with) as it does when Ricky is pitching poorly, because chances were that when Ricky was not here pitching poorly, someone was doing an equally poor job for him. So if he could've just pitched better, he wouldnt have been sent down in the first place and allowed further poor pitching to occur.
August 27, 201015 yr Was just pointing out that his ERA was inflated from the first half is all. He was definitely well improved in the second half, but yes, inconsistent. How was it inflated though? Inflation occurs when he hasnt played enough games. That was his numbers after a full season. What you see is what you get when you're talking about a full or almost full season. It is a direct number of the total allowed runs averaged per 9 innings. I know what you mean, but in all it doesnt matter how his 2nd half ends up so long as his 1st half is really bad.
August 27, 201015 yr Author I have to disagree with the bold part. If he had NOT been sent down, he would have most likely continued to struggle, probably get demoted to the bullpen, lose a lot of confidence, etc. Everything else, you do have a point, I will agree. You're not understanding what I mean. Had Nolasco not been bad enough to be sent down, we wouldnt be searching for other pitchers to take his place/running a short rotation. It hurts this team just as much when Ricky is not pitching (when you dont have anything to replace him with) as it does when Ricky is pitching poorly, because chances were that when Ricky was not here pitching poorly, someone was doing an equally poor job for him. So if he could've just pitched better, he wouldnt have been sent down in the first place and allowed further poor pitching to occur. Yeah, I get that, but you can't just say "if he could've pitched better" as if you could go out there and do what they do every day and get better results. The ones who were doing "an equally poor job" would usually be guys that are normally just long relievers that aren't used to going more than 2-3 innings normally or guys just getting a cup of tea in the Show. The long relievers are expected mostly to not be able to hold up much after I'd say 5 or 6 innings and those who are up for that delicious cup of tea use it as a learning experience, regardless of if they do well or not in their start(s). So, really, I'd rather Ricky have been sent down to be able to work on things, then come back up and put those things to use like he did.
August 27, 201015 yr Yeah, I get that, but you can't just say "if he could've pitched better" as if you could go out there and do what they do every day and get better results. The ones who were doing "an equally poor job" would usually be guys that are normally just long relievers that aren't used to going more than 2-3 innings normally or guys just getting a cup of tea in the Show. The long relievers are expected mostly to not be able to hold up much after I'd say 5 or 6 innings and those who are up for that delicious cup of tea use it as a learning experience, regardless of if they do well or not in their start(s). So, really, I'd rather Ricky have been sent down to be able to work on things, then come back up and put those things to use like he did. You still arent following me. If Ricky pitching good represents the #2, and pitching poorly represents the #1, he [his starts while he was sent down] were represented by serveral 1s, not 2s. Basically what Im saying is that Ricky was responsible for letting that happen. Because he pitched poorly, you had to see relievers, etc. come in for roles they werent meant to be used for. Pretty much what Im saying is you can further credit Ricky for letting his team down, because without him theyre even worse.
August 27, 201015 yr What is this trading Uggla and Gaby idea that people have all of a sudden? Who exactly will replace either of them in the lineup? Dominguez isn't a sure thing and even if he is, he won't be ready anytime soon. It doesn't make sense to deduce that just because we have a good lineup, we can afford to trade away hitters. If we trade away those hitters, our lineup doesn't look as good as it does now. Anibal has pitched fine and Nolasco is an innings eater who at worst is a number 3-4 guy. JJ is JJ and we have a few guys who can mix and match for the last 2 spots. If anything, it's the bullpen that requires attention - but even that has improved past the point of emergency. It will improve the starting pitching.
August 27, 201015 yr Maybin Coghlan Ramirez Morrison Stanton Uggla Sanchez Catcher If Maybin puts it together and Morrison eventually shows power, maybe our lineup could look something like that at some point in 09. R-L-R at 3-4-5 is nice. No managers going to bring in a lefty to face more than Morrison with Stanton behind him,
August 27, 201015 yr Maybin Coghlan Ramirez Morrison Stanton Uggla Sanchez Catcher If Maybin puts it together and Morrison eventually shows power, maybe our lineup could look something like that at some point in 09. R-L-R at 3-4-5 is nice. No managers going to bring in a lefty to face more than Morrison with Stanton behind him, I don't see how that lineup makes sense. Out of all the lineups I've seen, that one just makes absolutely no sense. Based on what it seems you'd like, it'd make a lot more sense to flip Morrison and Uggla in the lineup. No manager is going to want to have a lefty facing Gaby; Gaby actually absolutely mashes lefties and has been consistent in doing so, so that'd make more sense. Morrison's never going to hit 4th on this team.
August 27, 201015 yr I still expect Robert Morey to be hotshotted through the system and have a shot at the rotation in 2012.
September 8, 201015 yr my personal preference for the lineup next season: 3B Coghlan 1B Gaby SS Hanley 2B Uggla LF Morrison RF Stanton CF Maybin C Baker/Paulino having morrison hit 5th in the lineup will split up the righty power bats and he'll have stanton's big bat hitting behind him for protection
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