jsprt05 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 The stats up to this point are nice. But, outside of Dunn, every member of our bullpen scares the sh!t outta me. It seems to me that it is NOT VERY OFTEN that one of our relievers retires the side in order. Due to this, I look for the bullpen's ERA (and my blood pressure) to steadily rise as the season progresses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Actually, I need to elaborate on my last post. I have done more research as to the efficiency of the Marlins bullpen. Marlins bullpen ERA is third in baseball at 2.64. Thats nice. However, ERA is not necessarily an accurate statistic to judge a reliever by. I think your face is not necessarily an accurate statistic to judge a reliever by. Whip 1.15 - 5th AWESOME OPS Against - .601 - 5th AWESOME Inherited Runner Stand Rate - 70%, I did this by hand, league strand rate is typically 72% so AVERAGE So they are great at preventing guys from getting on base, hitting the ball hard, giving up runs themselves, and are average at stranding guys on base. These guys are unreliable assholes because Lance Berkman and some little guy hits a home run off of them. It's going to happen. Pitchers are going to give up runs. You dont remember the times they come in and dominate. You only remember the blow ups. Thats how bullpens work, and its up to you to be smart and look at the big picture rather than an individual game or two. Regardless of the fact, a 4-3 round trip against two playoff contenders is awesome. This is what we call, a current top 10 bullpen, and astronomically better than 2010 when we were 17th in era (4.01) and 21st (1.40) in whip. Jesus christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (Entering the day) 2.64 ERA (3rd) .203 opponents average (4th) .601 opponents .OPS (5th) 1.15 WHIP (5th) 3.62 FIP (11th) 3.92 xFIP (10th) 3.54 tERA (8th) Anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 The stats up to this point are nice. But, outside of Dunn, every member of our bullpen scares the sh!t outta me. It seems to me that it is NOT VERY OFTEN that one of our relievers retires the side in order. Due to this, I look for the bullpen's ERA (and my blood pressure) to steadily rise as the season progresses. Yet, they're also top 5 in WHIP. I'd guess every fan feels that way about their bullpen. Perhaps the problem (when it becomes a problem) is that we rely on the bullpen too much. Would be nice if our 3rd, 4th, and 5th starters started pitching like pitchers who belong in the big leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 [Perhaps the problem (when it becomes a problem) is that we rely on the bullpen too much. Would be nice if our 3rd, 4th, and 5th starters started pitching like pitchers who belong in the big leagues. It's already a problem but timely hitting and, oh the irony, bullpen dominance is bailing them out. 3-4-5 starters is our biggest issue by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsprt05 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 Actually, I need to elaborate on my last post. I have done more research as to the efficiency of the Marlins bullpen. Marlins bullpen ERA is third in baseball at 2.64. Thats nice. However, ERA is not necessarily an accurate statistic to judge a reliever by. I think your face is not necessarily an accurate statistic to judge a reliever by. Whip 1.15 - 5th AWESOME OPS Against - .601 - 5th AWESOME Inherited Runner Stand Rate - 70%, I did this by hand, league strand rate is typically 72% so AVERAGE So they are great at preventing guys from getting on base, hitting the ball hard, giving up runs themselves, and are average at stranding guys on base. These guys are unreliable assholes because Lance Berkman and some little guy hits a home run off of them. It's going to happen. Pitchers are going to give up runs. You dont remember the times they come in and dominate. You only remember the blow ups. Thats how bullpens work, and its up to you to be smart and look at the big picture rather than an individual game or two. Regardless of the fact, a 4-3 round trip against two playoff contenders is awesome. This is what we call, a current top 10 bullpen, and astronomically better than 2010 when we were 17th in era (4.01) and 21st (1.40) in whip. Jesus christ. Wow MarlinsLou, before that "face" jab I actually used to think you were one of the more knowledgeable posters on this board. Thought maybe you were above resorting to personal jabs over a baseball conversation. Beyond that, SO FAR (its the first week of May) the bullpen as a whole has put forth a solid performance. However, it is a long season, and I believe the numbers (especially Nunez's) will fall back down to Earth. Our bullpen is average.....the good news is the best bullpens in the league this year are not that much better than average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsprt05 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 (Entering the day) 2.64 ERA (3rd) .203 opponents average (4th) .601 opponents .OPS (5th) 1.15 WHIP (5th) 3.62 FIP (11th) 3.92 xFIP (10th) 3.54 tERA (8th) Anything else? UH OH!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridafly Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Actually, I need to elaborate on my last post. I have done more research as to the efficiency of the Marlins bullpen. Marlins bullpen ERA is third in baseball at 2.64. Thats nice. However, ERA is not necessarily an accurate statistic to judge a reliever by. I think your face is not necessarily an accurate statistic to judge a reliever by. Whip 1.15 - 5th AWESOME OPS Against - .601 - 5th AWESOME Inherited Runner Stand Rate - 70%, I did this by hand, league strand rate is typically 72% so AVERAGE So they are great at preventing guys from getting on base, hitting the ball hard, giving up runs themselves, and are average at stranding guys on base. These guys are unreliable assholes because Lance Berkman and some little guy hits a home run off of them. It's going to happen. Pitchers are going to give up runs. You dont remember the times they come in and dominate. You only remember the blow ups. Thats how bullpens work, and its up to you to be smart and look at the big picture rather than an individual game or two. Regardless of the fact, a 4-3 round trip against two playoff contenders is awesome. This is what we call, a current top 10 bullpen, and astronomically better than 2010 when we were 17th in era (4.01) and 21st (1.40) in whip. Jesus christ. Wow MarlinsLou, before that "face" jab I actually used to think you were one of the more knowledgeable posters on this board. Thought maybe you were above resorting to personal jabs over a baseball conversation. Beyond that, SO FAR (its the first week of May) the bullpen as a whole has put forth a solid performance. However, it is a long season, and I believe the numbers (especially Nunez's) will fall back down to Earth. Our bullpen is average.....the good news is the best bullpens in the league this year are not that much better than average. I think you took that way too personally. And also I'm just wondering, whats the definition of average? Best bullpens =/= average. Average is a mean on a distribution of ERA, WHIP, or whatever other scale you use. Let's say that next year in baseball, it becomes a SUPER DEAD BALL ERA. Like Year of the Pitcher on crack. The average ERA for SP's is 2.25 and a standard deviation of .25. So let's say Mr. Volstad has a year with a 2.50 ERA and he is amazed. Guess what? He is still below average for the year. Actually worse than 67% of the pitchers that year. I guess what I'm trying to say is that average is relative, if that made any sense at all. P.S. I don't even know if "the good news is the best bullpens in the league this year are not that much better than average." is even true cause I haven't looked it up (or really know how to) but I just felt like going on a statistical rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (Entering the day) 2.64 ERA (3rd) .203 opponents average (4th) .601 opponents .OPS (5th) 1.15 WHIP (5th) 3.62 FIP (11th) 3.92 xFIP (10th) 3.54 tERA (8th) Anything else? UH OH!!! If our season is a failure because of that, you can't really fault the bullpen. That's not a bad number, so I'm not sure why you're uh oh'ing; a 3.62 ERA is good for a top 10 bullpen last year. And if you're going to pick FIP as your favorite stat, perhaps you shouldn't mention Leo Nunez as your most feared reliever, to be fair. If anything, Leo was unlucky last year, based on peripherals; his FIP, xFIP, and tERA were all under 3 last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofthefish Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Seriously?!!? Seriously?!?! Have you watched any of the games this year? As a whole the pen has done the job, I'm not certain which team you are watching but the Marlins pen is doing fine. Is this a veiled attempt at one of those stupid should we be worried threads? :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsprt05 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 YOU ALL CAN SAY THIS THREAD IS STUPID ALL YOU WANT. BUT YOU ARE ALL LYING TO YOURSELVES IF YOU THINK OUR BULLPEN IS NOT OVERACHIEVING RIGHT NOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Beinfest Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Josh Johnson is bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunMarlin Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 jsprt05, have you watched this team the last few years? If so, how could you be anything but pleased with this year's bullpen? No bullpen in baseball has multiple relievers that have consistent 1-2-3 innings. Ours has done an admirable job. Please don't tell me you would rather have Lindstrom and Pinto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikol87 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Are they going to be a Top-3 bullpen when the season ends? Probably not. But you've gone from: 1. Is there any reliever on the Marlins that we can be confident in? 2. I still have little confidence. 3. Outside of Dunn, every member of our bullpen scares the sh!t outta me. 4. SO FAR, the bullpen as a whole has put forth a solid performance. However, it is a long season, and I believe the numbers (especially Nunez's) will fall back down to Earth. 5. YOU ARE ALL LYING TO YOURSELVES IF YOU THINK OUR BULLPEN IS NOT OVERACHIEVING RIGHT NOW. Literally, that's what you've said, in that order. The 4th and 5th statements are a far cry from the first. Then there's this gem: "Our bullpen is average.....the good news is the best bullpens in the league this year are not that much better than average." That's only justified is you think that this year, relative to other years, has a lack of good relief pitchers. Did they all retire? Or do you think the starters are comparatively stronger than usual relative to the bullpens this year, more than in other years? lolwut is justified here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricWiener Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 It seems to me that it is NOT VERY OFTEN that one of our relievers retires the side in order. NL OBP .320, once one adds in errors that is approaching 1 in 3 hitter reach. It seems to me that NOT VERY OFTEN any pitcher retires the side in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 It seems to me that it is NOT VERY OFTEN that one of our relievers retires the side in order. Do you know what WHIP is? Do you know how good a 1.000 WHIP is? Do you know that even the best pitchers in baseball are usually worse than a 1.000? Do you know that a 1.000 WHIP means that, on average, you allow one base runner per inning? Now you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBCMarlinsFan Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 The original poster is not the first person to express this sentiment. I've talked with other Marlins fans who think the same thing. I think it has something to do with the fact the bullpen has sh** the bed during multiple Josh Johnson starts already this season with only about a month of baseball on the books. This of course brings up flashbacks of the horror that was our bullpen last year and one of the worst aspects of it - leaving JJ with no decisions (or losses like yesterday) in games where he left the Marlins in a position to win. But the similarities begin and end there. This bullpen is hands down a better squad than last years bunch. And it isn't even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babaru Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Are they going to be a Top-3 bullpen when the season ends? Probably not. But you've gone from: 1. Is there any reliever on the Marlins that we can be confident in? 2. I still have little confidence. 3. Outside of Dunn, every member of our bullpen scares the sh!t outta me. 4. SO FAR, the bullpen as a whole has put forth a solid performance. However, it is a long season, and I believe the numbers (especially Nunez's) will fall back down to Earth. 5. YOU ARE ALL LYING TO YOURSELVES IF YOU THINK OUR BULLPEN IS NOT OVERACHIEVING RIGHT NOW. Literally, that's what you've said, in that order. The 4th and 5th statements are a far cry from the first. Then there's this gem: "Our bullpen is average.....the good news is the best bullpens in the league this year are not that much better than average." That's only justified is you think that this year, relative to other years, has a lack of good relief pitchers. Did they all retire? Or do you think the starters are comparatively stronger than usual relative to the bullpens this year, more than in other years? lolwut is justified here. Really this post says it all, your opinion has been more inconsistent than our bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricWiener Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Bullpen pitchers are, by definition, guys that aren't good enough to start. Either they don't have enough pitches to face the same hitters more than once, or they lack the endurance to pitch more than a handful of innings at a time, or whatever. This include closers. Also, by nature, Bullpen guys are used in an attempt to prevent bad things from happening, so if they aren't perfect, then they "cost" us the game. This ignores the fact that nothing prevented JJ from tossing a complete game, or the offense from scoring 3 more runs or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsprt05 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 Are they going to be a Top-3 bullpen when the season ends? Probably not. But you've gone from: 1. Is there any reliever on the Marlins that we can be confident in? 2. I still have little confidence. 3. Outside of Dunn, every member of our bullpen scares the sh!t outta me. 4. SO FAR, the bullpen as a whole has put forth a solid performance. However, it is a long season, and I believe the numbers (especially Nunez's) will fall back down to Earth. 5. YOU ARE ALL LYING TO YOURSELVES IF YOU THINK OUR BULLPEN IS NOT OVERACHIEVING RIGHT NOW. Literally, that's what you've said, in that order. The 4th and 5th statements are a far cry from the first. Then there's this gem: "Our bullpen is average.....the good news is the best bullpens in the league this year are not that much better than average." That's only justified is you think that this year, relative to other years, has a lack of good relief pitchers. Did they all retire? Or do you think the starters are comparatively stronger than usual relative to the bullpens this year, more than in other years? lolwut is justified here. Really this post says it all, your opinion has been more inconsistent than our bullpen. Why are those statements inconsistent? All of them are saying the same thing....I am not convinced this bullpen will be much above average in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Why are those statements inconsistent? All of them are saying the same thing....I am not convinced this bullpen will be much above average in the long run. And why, exactly? Beyond, like, "I feel like they will because I'm not confident in them." Because that's not a real reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsprt05 Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 Leadoff walk after leadoff walk.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Love Me Some Fish Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Scoreless inning after scoreless inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsprt05 Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 Scoreless inning after scoreless inning. JINX!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Leadoff walk after leadoff walk.... Oh. My mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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