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Arison interested in buying Marlins


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He bought crap, and I am happy he dumped it. I am not happy that he failed to either sign somebody (bring back Anibal, perhaps), or extend somebody like Stanton. Last year's free agency market was not exactly stellar.

 

What they really failed to do was spend money in a visible fashion, even if not on players. Drop a few million in a public-works project to expand local baseball facilities perhaps. Something to demonstrate that they are not just piling up cash. Some folks wouldn't care, but every time they would get public crap over the stadium or dumping players they could point to it.

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Baseball isn't basketball. You cant just spend in this game and make the playoffs easily.

 

That being said I would f***ing love it if he bought the marlins.

You're right. You establish a franchise with competence and stability. Arison didn't buy the Heat championships per say. He's been a stable owner of the Heat who has consistently put a product on the court since the mid 90s. The Big 3 exists only because Dwyane Wade was here, not because the Heat threw a bunch of $$ at them. There was a foundation. Ask LeBron to come to Miami if Miami was a bottom dweller... not happening!

 

I know you know all of this, but my point is for anyone reading... Arison doesn't meddle. He goes out there and hires the right guys. Like.. Pat Riley.

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I'm no Loria lover, but despite ...'s incredible and constant defense if him, when he presents the facts how can you disagree?

 

Knowing that I am a big Marlins fan, people will ask me how I feel about the Marlins ripping off tax payers for a stadium. I immediately find myself reciting ...'s posts about bed tax and how almost no tax payer from Miami Dade actually paid a dime. Dude knows what he's talking about, love for Loria or not.

Except for one problem...that's money that could have been going to something other than a baseball stadium. Miami Dade's libraries are a mess right now because of budget shortfalls, as one example. I'm not saying that the money could be used on that, but I find it hard to believe there weren't things that would have been of better use for that money besides a stadium.

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I would also argue that the reason he's 'left Hill and Jennings alone' this time is because they were on his side all along. There's a lot of reports to suggest that Beinfest was let go precisely because he did not agree with what Loria wanted to do. We've seen this happen before with Girardi and probably Fredi Gonzalez.

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Honestly I think if we are to be bought we will be bought by a wall street firm seeing the opportunity to make a lot of money. We are a relatively cheap franchise. We have a new stadium. and we have young talent that can be signed relatively cheap. Plus opportunities to expand to the Hispanic market. Given the choice between a "big" owner and a wall street investment group I'll take the group every time.

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Honestly I think if we are to be bought we will be bought by a wall street firm seeing the opportunity to make a lot of money. We are a relatively cheap franchise. We have a new stadium. and we have young talent that can be signed relatively cheap. Plus opportunities to expand to the Hispanic market. Given the choice between a "big" owner and a wall street investment group I'll take the group every time.

I think that's a lot less likely without a chance for a favorable TV deal, which is not going to happen here

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You're right. You establish a franchise with competence and stability. Arison didn't buy the Heat championships per say. He's been a stable owner of the Heat who has consistently put a product on the court since the mid 90s. The Big 3 exists only because Dwyane Wade was here, not because the Heat threw a bunch of $$ at them. There was a foundation. Ask LeBron to come to Miami if Miami was a bottom dweller... not happening!

 

I know you know all of this, but my point is for anyone reading... Arison doesn't meddle. He goes out there and hires the right guys. Like.. Pat Riley.

 

Can we still hire Pat Riley?

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Well said?

 

That's BS.

 

This whole thread is BS.

 

Loria has left Hill and Jennings alone this year. That's now accepted as absolutely perfect owner behavior, right? Why, then would anyone need a new owner?

 

Because so-and-so will spend money when it's needed? Wait, Loria has done so, twice. 52 mill on Delgado in '05, 200+ mill in '12. He'll likely do it again if the situation arises. He loves baseball. He loves to win. Maybe too much.

 

The whole "he didn't reinvest" after the '12 trades cuts no ice, because there was nothing to reinvest when you lost 50+ mill in '12 betting that fans would show up for a big new payroll of big-name FAs plus Hanley plus Stanton in the brand-new palace.

 

When did he pull back and dump the accumulated payroll? Why, that would be when he figured out that the fans aren't buying enough tickets to support the higher payroll. He's discovered that nasty fact twice.

 

Why would anyone think that anyone else will dump 10s of millions into this team year after year when the fans don't show up is beyond reason. Ain't. Ever. Gonna. Happen.

 

The next owner will be faced with the same crummy attendance. Jeb Bush and Arison and Mark Cuban and any number of other potential owners may be younger and have better hair than Loria, but none of them are stupid and neither is Loria. Crummy attendance = you're screwed.

 

Could someone else do a better job of building the fan-base long-term? Probably. But, that doesn't mean crap in the short-term, attendance is everything.

 

This outfit, like all other MLB outfits costs at least 160 mill per year to run. They're probably at about break-even. My only current objection to Loria is that he's given no indication that he's ready to spend the extra 24 mill/year from the new MLB TV deal.

Did I say anything about money? No. I don't give a s**t about money. If you think Loria is a good owner, good for you. But don't think I'm going to sit here and keep my mouth shut because poster number 9 thinks nothing can be said negative about Loria. He has been a crappy owner for years now, just because he's left Jennings and Hill alone for the past few months is not going to erase over a decade of incompetence and meddling. And the reason why he left those two alone is because they are probably a couple of his stooges. Any legit GM that would be able turn this thing around would not work here even if he wanted to, Loria would not leave him alone.

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Except for one problem...that's money that could have been going to something other than a baseball stadium. Miami Dade's libraries are a mess right now because of budget shortfalls, as one example. I'm not saying that the money could be used on that, but I find it hard to believe there weren't things that would have been of better use for that money besides a stadium.

Sigh. This is just...incorrect. And the reason has been posted here countless times.

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For instance, here, very recently:

http://marlinsbaseball.com/threads/marlins-fo-upset-with-the-red-sox-john-henry-responds.70688/page-4

 

See post #76.

 

Out of the total of about 600 mill for the stadium and parking garages, only about 90 mill could have even possibly been used for any "other things." Those dollars would be the dollars that come from the "Convention Development" part of the bed tax (half of the 6%) but only about 15% of the total funding.

 

What are some examples of those "other things" the CDT can be and has been used for in the past?

 

The Miami Art Museum, Historical Association of Southern Florida, Museum of Science and Space Transit Planetarium, Lyric Theater, the Gusman Center for the Performing Arts, Colony Theater, Manuel Artime Performing Arts Center, etc., etc. You get the idea. Theaters, arts palaces, museums, etc.

 

Libraries ain't on the list. Housing ain't on the list. Welfare ain't on the list. Very little is on the list. Why? It's a convention development tax, supposedly designed to make it more likely that conventions will be held here. If it was up to me, I would have financed some giant stripper bars -- you know, somewhere conventioneers might actually want to go to after a hard day of listening to boring speeches and whatnot. But then again, if it was up to me there wouldn't be any such thing as a hotel bed tax in the first place.

 

Not a penny of the other 510 mill or so could be used for anything else, as all but 50 mill of that comes from the Professional Sports Facilities dedicated tax and the 50 mill was Orange Bowl rehab money that was rededicated to redevelopment of the OB site.

 

I really wish people would stop regurgitating the nonsense, but I won't hold my breath. It may be "hard to believe" but facts is facts.

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I don't think that we should have a problem with Loria being cheap. What we should have a problem with is Loria and his people being dumbasses when it comes to running a baseball team. If you're going to be a small-market team, at least do what other small-market teams do. Like, for example, try to lock up your young players before they become too pricey and leave. It's amazing that they keep making the same mistake over and over.

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You're right. You establish a franchise with competence and stability. Arison didn't buy the Heat championships per say. He's been a stable owner of the Heat who has consistently put a product on the court since the mid 90s. The Big 3 exists only because Dwyane Wade was here, not because the Heat threw a bunch of $$ at them. There was a foundation. Ask LeBron to come to Miami if Miami was a bottom dweller... not happening!

 

I know you know all of this, but my point is for anyone reading... Arison doesn't meddle. He goes out there and hires the right guys. Like.. Pat Riley.

 

Actually, the Big 3, took cut rate deals, to be with the Heat. Each one could have gone elsewhere and gotten a max deal. Yet they came here to make this happen, and it was all because of the sell job that Pat Riley could make to them. What sell job can Hill make to anyone ? Hey come and help us build with a cheap owner who doesn't give a crap about winning, just squeezing every dollar he can out of the franchise.

 

His defenders are really running out of ideas, and are now grasping at straws. 27,000 attendance was pretty good considering they were a God-awful and a nearly 100 loss team. Why you think fans should fill that stadium just "because" is beyond me.

 

Joe Rose on his radio show this morning said he did an experiment with the bunch of school kids (4th graders) he was talking to a couple of weeks ago. He asked the kids (in Coral Springs) how many are Heat fans, Dolphins fans, Marlins fans, and Panthers fans. He told them they could be fans of as many as they wanted. 30 kids - all 30 raised their hands for the Heat, 12 raised their hands for the Dolphins, 4 for the Panthers, and 3 for the Marlins. He then asked what were their favorite baseball teams, and 15 said they didn't like baseball, and 6 said the Yankees were their favorite team and 4 said the Braves.

 

This is the future generation of possible fans. Loria's style of ownership is even KILLING the next owner as well - these are his/her future fanbase.

 

My question is, if this is such a horrible and damaged fanbase, why DIDN'T he move the team ? And don't give me BS about he wanted to build a stadium and see if they would come. You don't risk hundreds of millions of $ in the "hopes" that fans will come out.

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who doesn't give a crap about winning

 

Rubbish. Nobody, other than you disputes that Loria cares a lot about winning. Not even the vicious local media.

 

Try as he might, spend as he might, he's been horrible at it for the last 10 years, but you shouldn't need to propound an outright lie to try to make your case.

 

I get it that a lot of people hate Loria, the drooling vitriol is never-ending. But, bad as the results have been he got the damned stadium built when nobody else could. The Marlins will be here for the next 40-50 years. And Loria won't own them forever.

 

I can only imagine the whining if the Marlins had picked up and left.

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27,000 attendance was pretty good

 

And yet another lie. It seems a lot of things are beyond you, outside of falsehoods.

 

The Marlins didn't draw 27K/game. Total attendance was 1,586,322, which is 19,584/game. So says baseball-reference and ESPN. Only CLE (by about 150/game) and TBR (by about 950/game) were lower.

 

Do you just make everything up as you go along?

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Joe Rose on his radio show this morning said he did an experiment with the bunch of school kids (4th graders)

 

Since you inexplicably think this is somehow in the least bit important, we can thank our lucky stars that you're not running anything to do with the Marlins.

 

It's meaningless crap. Ask the same question after a couple of winning seasons and 9 year-olds will give diametrically opposed answers. And we all know what great volumes of tickets 9 year-olds buy.

 

The market the Marlins are after is adults, you know, people who can actually pay for tickets and take their kids to the game.

 

Loria didn't move because he likes Miami, Miami didn't want him to move and agreed to build the stadium and Loria thought that more people would show up after the stadium was built, especially after he committed to 200 mill of FAs. He was wrong, again. Same as '05.

 

But, don't let that stop you from making stuff up and citing ridiculous anecdotal surveys of 9 year-olds.

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Since you inexplicably think this is somehow in the least bit important, we can thank our lucky stars that you're not running anything to do with the Marlins.

 

It's meaningless crap. Ask the same question after a couple of winning seasons and 9 year-olds will give diametrically opposed answers. And we all know what great volumes of tickets 9 year-olds buy.

 

The market the Marlins are after is adults, you know, people who can actually pay for tickets and take their kids to the game.

 

Loria didn't move because he likes Miami, Miami didn't want him to move and agreed to build the stadium and Loria thought that more people would show up after the stadium was built, especially after he committed to 200 mill of FAs. He was wrong, again. Same as '05.

 

But, don't let that stop you from making stuff up and citing ridiculous anecdotal surveys of 9 year-olds.

 

This is I agree with and wanted to add that the parents are also at fault. As an elementary school teacher I have a bunch of kids telling me the Marlins suck when they see my classroom Fish memorabilia and when I wanna be polite I tell them that's just they're opinion and sometimes ask why they feel that way and countless times the answer is "cuz my dad said so".

 

I'm a Marlins fan first and foremost and really couldn't care less about other Miami teams because I'm not a bandwagon fan but I would never lead my son to blindly hate the Heat or Dolphins. When he grows up because of me I'm sure he'll have at the least a very strong appreciation for the Marlins but my son will be free to form his own opinions of other teams and who he wants to cheer or not. Brainwashing ur young kids into automatically saying the Marlins suck is so upsetting.

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