Fredi and Loria exchange barbs

[Admin]

Loria was irked over a tidbit in the Miami Herald’s Sunday Sports Buzz column. Gonzalez said: “There's not a manager dead or alive that Jeffrey thinks is good enough. Not Connie Mack, not anyone.

 

 

“Stick with someone," Gonzalez added. "Give guys opportunities. But he likes to make changes. As long as he owns the team, he makes the decisions. In his mind, they're the right ones.�

 

Loria’s unsolicited response: “I’m a little surprised because it’s classless, especially because he was with us for five years and was a colossal failure…Not nice. Not nice.�

 

 

Source: Juan Rodriguez of Sun-Sentinel

[Dr Beinfest]

Both make excellent points.

 

Both suck ass.

[LordMagnus]

Loria how can you call someone classless and then call them a monumental failure? Really?

[Fishgirl]

And Freddi is in the playoffs and where is Loria's team headed for the 2nd straight year ? The Cellar.

 

Colossal failure ? He gave you at least one winning record, maybe 2. Since then, its been crap. I didn't like Freddi but at least the team was closer to winning than since he's left us.

 

But we all know that when Cox retired Gonzalez would have left here no matter what, so I'm surprised this came up. Who asked Freddi and what tipped him off to make these remarks ?

[Entendu]

lmao

[marlins1994]

I'm taking Loria's side on this. Freddi never won us a World Series, or even got us into the playoffs. Loria did. And Loria got us a brand new stadium. It's not his fault that players like Ramirez, Buck, Gabby, Nolasco, and Bell have underperformed, and have really sucked.

[Hotcorner]

this is funny.

[fanofthefish]

Loria is such a dumbass he doesn't remember that Fredi was there less than four years, during which time the Marlins had two winning records and were only two games below .500 when he was fired. The winning records were more surprising considering the players Loria assembled for him and also traded Miguel Cabrera. Now I don't think Fredi was the best manager in baseball, but all things considered he didn't do that bad a job. While Loria is just a Steinbrenner wanna be.

[mystikol87]

Loria is such a dumbass he doesn't remember that Fredi was there less than four years, during which time the Marlins had two winning records and were only two games below .500 when he was fired. The winning records were more surprising considering the players Loria assembled for him and also traded Miguel Cabrera. Now I don't think Fredi was the best manager in baseball, but all things considered he didn't do that bad a job. While Loria is just a Steinbrenner wanna be

 

The following is a public service message: I'm not reading any of your posts until you find the Enter key.

[mystikol87]

Loria how can you call someone classless and then call them a monumental failure? Really?

 

Well, Loria didn't say that he himself is classy :lol

[fanofthefish]

Loria is such a dumbass he doesn't remember that Fredi was there less than four years, during which time the Marlins had two winning records and were only two games below .500 when he was fired. The winning records were more surprising considering the players Loria assembled for him and also traded Miguel Cabrera. Now I don't think Fredi was the best manager in baseball, but all things considered he didn't do that bad a job. While Loria is just a Steinbrenner wanna be

 

The following is a public service message: I'm not reading any of your posts until you find the Enter key.

Not sure I'm following you on this?

[gizmo]

And Freddi is in the playoffs and where is Loria's team headed for the 2nd straight year ? The Cellar.

 

Colossal failure ? He gave you at least one winning record, maybe 2. Since then, its been crap. I didn't like Freddi but at least the team was closer to winning than since he's left us.

 

But we all know that when Cox retired Gonzalez would have left here no matter what, so I'm surprised this came up. Who asked Freddi and what tipped him off to make these remarks ?

 

 

I really wouldn't praise Fredi for the Braves being where they are. Wren deserves more praise if anything...

[Fishgirl]

I'm taking Loria's side on this. Freddi never won us a World Series, or even got us into the playoffs. Loria did. And Loria got us a brand new stadium. It's not his fault that players like Ramirez, Buck, Gabby, Nolasco, and Bell have underperformed, and have really sucked.

 

 

Did they really underperform or was there unreasonable expectation & over estimation made of talent by Loria and his hand-picked front office ? Maybe they just aren't very good baseball people ? Results show they have failed time & again in the draft, or in free agency. They have hit on a couple of players but since Loria has owned the team only one player taken in the 1st two rounds of the draft has ever amounted to anything. That's pretty pathetic.

 

Meanwhile some organizations have righted their ships since Loria bought the franchise, like Tampa. They were a perrinial loser until changes were made with a new ownership and VOILA, they are more in contention & well thought of as a franchise than Loria & his Marlins. They may not have won a WS but they have played in a WS, won the AL East twice, and made the playoffs 3 times and that is having to contend in a division with the sports two biggest money machines.

 

And the Marlins ? We all have seen the mess this organization is in.

 

If Ozzie really is let go, and I am a free agent, the Marlins had better way overpay me or I'm not going to sign with them, because the record shows that odds favor the Marlins will be losers rather than winners.Most players want to be paid, but they also want to win. If I am going to the Marlins and be miserable, you better pay me well.

[...]

his hand-picked front office

 

:lol

 

ALL FOs are "hand-picked," there's no other kind.

 

You do realize that this year will be the 104th year that the Cubs have not won a World Series, right? And that their FO was "hand-picked" for every single one of those 104 years?

 

It's been 9 whole years since Loria won a WS.

 

Meanwhile, Loria got the stadium done, which means the Marlins will be here for the next 40 years.

 

Relax and enjoy the baseball. The Marlins won't be "due" to win another WS until somewhere between 2052 and 2082. And even if it takes that long, they would still be an extreme outlier in terms of small-to-average payroll teams.

 

Fact is, it's amazing that there are two MLB teams in FL. It's amazing that we have one of those teams and what is perhaps the finest stadium in all of MLB -- paid for by tourists, no less.

 

Oh, well. There's no pleasing some people.

[enterthemadness]

I barely recall Fredi days...cause you know, he didn nothing special here outside of that 87 win season.

 

Braves suck btw. They just gonna choke in the playoffs. If it's Yankees vs Braves, maybe they w--lolololololololol.

[Piazza31]

Did they really underperform or was there unreasonable expectation & over estimation made of talent by Loria and his hand-picked front office ?.

 

Not to nit pick, but no one thought Hanley would be as bad as he was- and not for two years either. Every MLB talent evaluator still would have picked him for their team, the issue with him always was "What position is he". Bell is what he is. Everyone thought Gaby would be serviceable, same with Buck, They were outright atrocious. Buck at the Mendoza line would have been acceptable compared to now.

 

 

Meanwhile some organizations have righted their ships since Loria bought the franchise, like Tampa. They were a perrinial loser until changes were made with a new ownership and VOILA, they are more in contention & well thought of as a franchise than Loria & his Marlins.

 

The Rays had a change in philosophy and had 8 years of top 5 draft picks to get their players. Every first round pick is a crap shoot, but if you have 8 top 5 picks, you better hit on a few- and they did. Since 1999, this is who they have drafted in the first round-

99- Josh Hamilton 1st Overall

00- Rocco Baldelli 6th Overall

02- BJ Upton - 2nd overall

03- Delmon Young 1st overall

04- Jeff Niemann 4th Overall

06- Evan Longoria 3rd Overall

07- David Price 1st Overall

 

 

Silverman gets credit for drafting Longria and Price, but he shouldn't be applauded for finding talent that pretty much fell into his lap. Every player in the top 5 of the draft has potential and talent, and are deemed close to ready.

 

The truth is they also haven't signed a premier free agent either, and taken the risk Loria has. Yes they got to a WS in 2008, but they lost 4 games to 1 and haven't been back.

 

Now look at the Rangers, who have some home grown talent, but most of their talent was signed as Free Agents and trades, such as Josh Hamilton, Adrian Beltre, Mike Napoli and Vladimir Guerrero. Even Cliff Lee, and Bengie Molina were important in their first WS Run. They since have gone to 2 WS, and this after tearing apart the team in 2007 and rebuilding with a base of Ian Kinsler and Michael Young (Sound Familiar? Miggy, Willingham and Hermida).

 

The Rangers hit on FA and trades, the Marlins have tried to mimic that by having a strong base of young talent, and suplementing it with free agents who can help the team win.But the Rangers also gt by with sheer dumb luck, almost losing Nelson Cruz through waivers and drafting in the rule 5 draft a guy who wouldn't be allowed in the US for 5 years.

 

Like someone else said, Loria and Co can't be blamed for Ramirez, Sanchez, Buck, Bell, Morrison and Nolasco (Early) essentially playing like Minor Leaguers in the field.

 

They had holes at positions last offseason, and they attempted to plug them with All Stars and MLB batting champs. They did what they could and everyone including MLB circles thought they did a great job.

[anotherrealfan]

Too much analysis about whether Fredi was a good manager here or not of if Loria is a good owner, this is only about whether it is appropriate for another team manager to comment on the "rumors" about someone else's team and job. This is where Fredi has no business in this, just like Booby Cox had to comment when Fredi was fired-but all the time working the deal for Fredi.

Manage the Braves, Fredi, not the Marlins management decisions.

[TheU]

funny Loria calling Freddi classless, then calling him a monumental failure. Freddi got us the last winning season this team has had. We weren't the best team around with Freddi, but at least we were competitive, even with the horrible team Loria assembled. steinbrenner wannabe is right, except George actually SPENT money.

[Puma]

I've had it up to here with Loria's antics. He has a reputation as one of the worst owners in baseball, if not the worst. Even though Fredi doesn't have any business coming out and making that statement, he is right.

[yokofox33]

I really despise this ownership. Loria is an art dealer who thinks he knows baseball. Just stfu, write the checks, and let the players play and coaches coach. I understand the owner should have the final say on things, but why even have a GM and coaches if you just want to run everything yourself?

[Puma]

Saw this on twitter:

 

@FakeMarlinsFan: I respect Loria's opinion on Freddi being a total failure, because if anyone knows total failure, it's Jeffrey Loria.

[LRizzle]

Reyes initially, Hanley, and Bell underperformed. Bell has had decent peripherals, wouldn't be surprised to see him come back next year and be solid.

 

Anyway, anyone saying Nolasco, Buck, or Gaby underachieved... as Dennis Green would say, they are who we thought they were.

I already gave a Buck breakdown career wise in the Brantly thread, no one should be shocked by his performance. Gaby had ONE good half of a season, got nominated to an all-star bid, and other than that has been downright awful. Shocking news people, just because you make the all-star roster doesn't mean you're good or consistent or anything else. And Nolasco is doing exactly what he's always done.

 

How about we stop throwing a sh*tload of money at players at their highest point of value and cross our fingers that they somehow impossibly keep it up or we get lucky. Players disappointed, some surprised us like Kearns before he got hurt, Ruggiano, Zambrano was great at first. This team just wasn't well built. Yes it underperformed but the blame goes to the FO just as much as the players.

[LRizzle]

Ozzie had this to say which Loria didn't like much either the other day as well.

"If Jeffrey thinks I don't do the job I should do, it's not the first time he fired the manager," Guillen said. "I know if it's going to be easier for him to fire another one. I don't worry about that. I expect to be back 100 percent."

[Fishgirl]

And Freddi gets the last laugh I guess.

[babaru]

I really think coaches take too much of the credit when their team wins and too much of the blame when their team loses, are there great coaches? Of course, but in the end it comes down to execution on the field, talent, and the desire to win.