16 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

I was talking to one of her big supporters last night and he saw no problem with what she said here. He said her hands are tied by Bruce Sherman being cheap.

I mean that's right though. The comment is ultimately meaningless fluff and Sherman being cheap has really impacted the team. 

But none of that counters Kim's problems - Garcia/Aguilar were guaranteed $60m, and I like to imagine they could have used that money on B. Reynolds (trade Watson/Meyer/Bleday preseason as rumored), Rizzo (2/$32), and Joc ($1/6-8). Hell, ditch Soler here also and use that to absorb Kevin Kiermaier contract and now it's a real OF! Not much of a hindsight bias here. All of that was easily doable even if a 4th good prospect is in the Pitt deal. She didn't do well with what she had available, even if what was available was severely lacking. This is her fault to me. I'm not sure how anyone can defend this, going into the season without a CF and three DHs.

Kim's biggest failures for me are the poor roster decisions like playing a man down multiple times for long periods of time.  That and odd roster construction often. Those can't be explained away by shifting blame onto Sherman. And she ran out of scapegoats for her fans to blame for that.

1 minute ago, hovertical said:

What bothered me about not trading for Reynolds is they've also run some of their prospect bats out there now to play and they haven't exactly done well so it may diminish the value the Pirates might have attached to a particular prospect as part of a package for him.  In addition, our guys will also be roughly a year older by the time the trade talks open up again in the offseason.  It was really a shame that that trade was just not made.  It also goes to show how incredibly reliant they are on Jazz to power the offense.  He's clearly the catalyst for the lineup and as he goes - the offense goes.

Yes. Which goes to what you said - what's the trainwreck this offseason.

They failed to get Reynolds, so now the trade surplus is like Salas, Eder/Lewis/Cappe/Meyer, Fulton/Morisette/Miller, and Soriano/Nardi/McCambley and that won't get you Reynolds like Watson/Meyer/Bleday would likely have this preseason.

That prospect group should get you someone good, so will they do it and try to win year 6....... or circle 2024 because Groshans/Eury/Meyer/Eder/Berry need a year and everyone is controlled besides like Wendle/Cooper/Rojas so they can wait. Endless cycle comments here.

2 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Kim's biggest failures for me are the poor roster decisions like playing a man down multiple times for long periods of time.  That and odd roster construction often. Those can't be explained away by shifting blame onto Sherman. And she ran out of scapegoats for her fans to blame for that.

I think the overall picture of that roster construction is the issue. Day to day issues don't really move the needle here for me, especially because Don likely has a say in some of these moves. You'd imagine she asks what he'd prefer to give the manager what he wants, but maybe that conversation isn't happening. Which would be bad, but who knows.

It's no CF and triple DH to me. Both were insane decisions that made no sense with the farm surplus and the money they did spend.

3 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

Yes. Which goes to what you said - what's the trainwreck this offseason.

They failed to get Reynolds, so now the trade surplus is like Salas, Eder/Lewis/Cappe/Meyer, Fulton/Morisette/Miller, and Soriano/Nardi/McCambley and that won't get you Reynolds like Watson/Meyer/Bleday would likely have this preseason.

That prospect group should get you someone good, so will they do it and try to win year 6....... or circle 2024 because Groshans/Eury/Meyer/Eder/Berry need a year and everyone is controlled besides like Wendle/Cooper/Rojas so they can wait. Endless cycle comments here.

at least Reynolds has also had a slightly worse season than his career norms.  It's mostly because he started of the first month or two ice cold - he's gotten up to about an 800 ops right now which would blow away anything we've run out there but it's still a "down" year for him (which also speaks to how fantastic he has been in previous years). Doubt the Pirates will consider anything less for him though - nor should they but at least he didn't go out and post another 900+ops season like last year.

10 minutes ago, hovertical said:

 It also goes to show how incredibly reliant they are on Jazz to power the offense.  He's clearly the catalyst for the lineup and as he goes - the offense goes.

Yep. We're back to the Stanton era offenses. If Stanton/Jazz is slumping, the entire offense sucks.

 

7 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Kim's biggest failures for me are the poor roster decisions like playing a man down multiple times for long periods of time.  That and odd roster construction often. Those can't be explained away by shifting blame onto Sherman. And she ran out of scapegoats for her fans to blame for that.

 

2 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I think the overall picture of that roster construction is the issue. Day to day issues don't really move the needle here for me, especially because Don likely has a say in some of these moves. You'd imagine she asks what he'd prefer to give the manager what he wants, but maybe that conversation isn't happening. Which would be bad, but who knows.

It's no CF and triple DH to me. Both were insane decisions that made no sense with the farm surplus and the money they did spend.

I agree that the multitude of DHs is a huge issue and lack of CF probably even more so - could probably get away with two DHs in the corners and a really good center fielder. ... In a smaller ballpark, anyways. At loanDepot Park, we basically need at least two center fielders [one in left] due to the size of the place. Which is another thing - BRING IN THE LEFT FIELD WALL. I know this isn't a Don or Kim thing specifically, but center field has moved in twice, right center once, left field and left center both remain cavernous.

The playing a man down thing is a huge, huge issue, and it's unfortunately not just a "day to day" issue. It's more an issue of the training staff being unable to diagnose even minor injuries properly and then Kim or whoever makes the choice saying, "well he won't be out for 10 days so we shouldn't put him on the IL," yet the player ends up down for sometimes up to a full week and Don burns the shorter bench earlier in the game and we end up with Jacob Stallings batting with the game on the line.

Last year with pitchers still hitting, Pablo Lopez took at bats late in games, as a pinch hitter, because Kim didn't think an IL stint was necessary for a position player or two. Yes, there was a time last year that I can remember we were down to a two man bench.

This year we had a game with effectively a ONE man bench entering the game. Like ... none of this is OK. lol.

Even if the choices are down to Erik Gonzalez and Willians Astudillo [and they usually are], I'd rather have them up and available instead of ... nobody.

9 minutes ago, hovertical said:

at least Reynolds has also had a slightly worse season than his career norms.  It's mostly because he started of the first month or two ice cold - he's gotten up to about an 800 ops right now which would blow away anything we've run out there but it's still a "down" year for him (which also speaks to how fantastic he has been in previous years). Doubt the Pirates will consider anything less for him though - nor should they but at least he didn't go out and post another 900+ops season like last year.

Pirates should just extend him, honestly. If he'll accept it.

.891 OPS since June 1st. That'd blow this team away.

5 minutes ago, Michael said:

Pirates should just extend him, honestly. If he'll accept it.

.891 OPS since June 1st. That'd blow this team away.

Jazz, Wendle (bye bye Rojas), and Reynolds at the top of the order please. 

Also...Reynolds is a switch-hitter i'm pretty sure....something we have exactly....zero of (Don's brain would melt)

24 minutes ago, Michael said:

Yep. We're back to the Stanton era offenses. If Stanton/Jazz is slumping, the entire offense sucks.

 

 

I agree that the multitude of DHs is a huge issue and lack of CF probably even more so - could probably get away with two DHs in the corners and a really good center fielder. ... In a smaller ballpark, anyways. At loanDepot Park, we basically need at least two center fielders [one in left] due to the size of the place. Which is another thing - BRING IN THE LEFT FIELD WALL. I know this isn't a Don or Kim thing specifically, but center field has moved in twice, right center once, left field and left center both remain cavernous.

The playing a man down thing is a huge, huge issue, and it's unfortunately not just a "day to day" issue. It's more an issue of the training staff being unable to diagnose even minor injuries properly and then Kim or whoever makes the choice saying, "well he won't be out for 10 days so we shouldn't put him on the IL," yet the player ends up down for sometimes up to a full week and Don burns the shorter bench earlier in the game and we end up with Jacob Stallings batting with the game on the line.

Last year with pitchers still hitting, Pablo Lopez took at bats late in games, as a pinch hitter, because Kim didn't think an IL stint was necessary for a position player or two. Yes, there was a time last year that I can remember we were down to a two man bench.

This year we had a game with effectively a ONE man bench entering the game. Like ... none of this is OK. lol.

Even if the choices are down to Erik Gonzalez and Willians Astudillo [and they usually are], I'd rather have them up and available instead of ... nobody.

I'd venture to say the Marlins medical staff is likely not incompetent so a lot of this is conjecture and probably over the top. I hear you, but this isn't needle moving to me. Having Gonzalez maybe around for 10 extra PA isn't killing the season. No center fielder and two DHs in the field for 1,000 PA is, etc. etc. I don't think we all need to elaborate here as this is just a degree of frustration for each of us.

Moving in the fence is an interesting idea.

And to note about two CF - yes this was said by most before the season and in their defense, Sanchez probably would be a plus LF and Bleday/Burdick may track that as well. They really just need "1" CF now because I do think there is some confidence Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick can handle CF in a pinch as a # 2 option. Obviously, they need to hit though. At least Fangraphs thinks Bleday may be a three true outcome guy, even if thats just against RHP.

It's real easy ultimately. Two big bats. They have the other 11 guys they'll go in with already.

Jazz
Cooper
TBD CF
TBD SS
Soler
Bleday or Sanchez/Burdick Hard L/R platoon
Garcia
Wendle/Berti/Williams
Fortes/Stallings

No idea who the names are, but they need to be really good for this to work with their current personnel. Salas and friends need to be turned into 1, and Bruce has to sign the other. You'd hope that 5-6-7 has an OBP over .300 and jacks 75+ HR which I do think they can do (see mid 2000s Detroit Tigers). Lineup becomes pretty interesting assuming the two new guys are good, with Groshans and Berry coming likely pretty quickly.

3 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I'd venture to say the Marlins medical staff is likely not incompetent so a lot of this is conjecture and probably over the top. I hear you, but this isn't needle moving to me. Having Gonzalez maybe around for 10 extra PA isn't killing the season.

I'll narrow down to this one cause everything else I can agree with.

Not having those extra bats isn't as damning this year since we now have the DH. Last year it was a nightmare, but that's over and done with. This year it's a little easier to go with "just rest" for a few guys if they have some nagging injuries.

45 minutes ago, hovertical said:

Jazz, Wendle (bye bye Rojas), and Reynolds at the top of the order please. 

Also...Reynolds is a switch-hitter i'm pretty sure....something we have exactly....zero of (Don's brain would melt)

With Andrew Vaughn at the clean-up 😉

 

 

23 minutes ago, Iowa said:

With Andrew Vaughn at the clean-up 😉

 

 

so...another DH you say?  Maybe Kim will trade for him then!

 

is he related to Cooper? lulz

2 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

I was talking to one of her big supporters last night and he saw no problem with what she said here. He said her hands are tied by Bruce Sherman being cheap.

 

To go out of my way to be fair, I think what she meant with that statement was that while she's watching the game/the game is being played, she can't do anything about the outcome - i.e. she can't go down there and hit a home run, which is a valid take.  BUT it can also be seen as "well why don't you do something about the roster, and then you won't have that problem" - which is how many see it.

 

1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

I think the overall picture of that roster construction is the issue. Day to day issues don't really move the needle here for me, especially because Don likely has a say in some of these moves. You'd imagine she asks what he'd prefer to give the manager what he wants, but maybe that conversation isn't happening. Which would be bad, but who knows.

It's no CF and triple DH to me. Both were insane decisions that made no sense with the farm surplus and the money they did spend.

Obviously she screwed up not filling the holes in the offseason.  But there's no excuse to allow the "day to day" issues happen over and over for weeks at a time, which CAN affect the outcome of games.

As someone pointed out above, it hasn't been quite as bad this year with the DH, but still, it's a problem.

Edited August 10, 20224 yr by rmc523

3 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I think what she meant with that statement was that while she's watching the game/the game is being played, she can't do anything about the outcome - i.e. she can't go down there and hit a home run, which is a valid take

This is fair, gotta give her that. I'm as annoyed as anyone when comments are taken out of context. 

Still a bad look for her to use those words but yea, if she doesn't realize she can make roster moves then just shoot me now.

5 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

This is fair, gotta give her that. I'm as annoyed as anyone when comments are taken out of context. 

Still a bad look for her to use those words but yea, if she doesn't realize she can make roster moves then just shoot me now.

I'm just going based on that snippet posted - I didn't see anything beyond that.

I think she could've clarified it by literally saying "I can't go hit a home run".  She definitely should be doing more via roster construction.  And getting a new manager....yesterday.

28 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I'm just going based on that snippet posted - I didn't see anything beyond that.

I think she could've clarified it by literally saying "I can't go hit a home run".  She definitely should be doing more via roster construction.  And getting a new manager....yesterday.

yep. the day-to-day routine GM stuff and the comments earlier in the year she made about Avi being the perennial 30hr guy and Soler being a high obp% guy were/and still are, the most damning things in terms of evidence that she's clearly in over her head. 

1 hour ago, hovertical said:

yep. the day-to-day routine GM stuff and the comments earlier in the year she made about Avi being the perennial 30hr guy and Soler being a high obp% guy were/and still are, the most damning things in terms of evidence that she's clearly in over her head. 

The most damning thing for me is not getting a CF. Then followed by either not getting another CF and/or the double/triple DH redundancy of Aguilar/Cooper/Soler. Passing comments that may just be flubs, and she may just be thinking about Garcia has a nice statcast and was objectively pretty good 17-19 and 21 and Soler was out of this world 19 and post-21? Who knows or cares. Yelling GOTCHA that Avisail hit 29 HR last year is a nothingburger. She could go on TV and argue a banana is a hamburger and I wouldn't care if the baseball moves make sense. They frankly did not make sense even in Bruce's bullshit payroll world.

Like you said eloquently - let's see the offseason trainwreck as frankly, it can be summed up very very quickly and how can they mess it up this time?

1 - Trade Lewin (OOO and is not good), Wendle/Rojas (need a positional upgrade for one, likely Rojas), one of Berti/Anderson (likely Anderson, he's more expensive and Berti more suited to be a backup which this spot is), and Floro (too expensive) gotta go. Payroll is roughly $73m and they have 24/26 roster spots locked up still, with good 40 man depth (see # 3).

2 - How are they getting those two last 26 man players, which is practically a starting CF and starting SS upgrade? Bruce spending? Trading Pablo/Eury/Salas (IMO their 3 top trade assets) in two separate deals, and if Pablo is moved then using remaining payroll on a short term pitcher? This is where Kim needs to earn the paycheck. I don't know these answers but this is the entire offseason and all that matters. This could make or break Kim's career here and she needs to plant her flag. To note, you go with SS as the upgrade spot as Berry could be at 1B soon, Jazz is going nowhere, Salas/Watson/Cappe/Nunez are years away for SS help, Groshans can end up at 3B soon, Bleday/Burdick/Sanchez are corner OF hope, and you can't invest in a DH with Soler (as well as Berry may fit in here too). Further, SS depth is phenomenal across MLB and there are 4 major free agents creating many trade/signing options as most teams don't have a need here. It's lined up perfectly for them to get a SS TBH.

3 - And then depth 40 man signings/Rule V/low key acquisitions. Guys 27-35 are pretty solid (likely a collection of Henry, Groshans, one of Bleday/Burdick/Sanchez, Neidert, Sixto, G. Soriano, Nardi, J. Simpson, etc.), but they need to fill things out after them (upgrades to DLC, LeBlanc, T. Johnston, relievers we barely have heard of). Use the guys in # 1 to get optionable relievers or improvements to LeBlanc, DLC, and Johnston. Try and find some gems and hopefully the next Armstrong works out. Build some depth to avoid Erik Gonzalez and Billy Hamilton being on the team, and desperation moves like Williams that may not work out (to their credit, he is working out but they'd be in real trouble without him).

And that's it. Two big bats, maybe some maneuvering for another 1 year FA arm if Pablo/other MLB SP is moved, and some 40 man flyers and this can be a really boring offseason after that. 

Yeah, what he said.

1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

The most damning thing for me is not getting a CF.

Damn Lou this is a great point, why haven't you mentioned this before? 

😴

2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Damn Lou this is a great point, why haven't you mentioned this before? 

hahaha

4 hours ago, Michael said:

Yeah, what he said.

This post has been banned for being too long.  Please limit your post to fewer words next time.

5 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

This post has been banned for being too long.  Please limit your post to fewer words next time.

Sry m8

50 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

This post has been banned for being too long.  Please limit your post to fewer words next time.

k