1 minute ago, MarlinsLou said:

That's interesting, but we'll see. But then, this swings back to what I'm saying - the normal SP might get the hook after 2 times through/4+ innings of work around pitch 60-75 which will keep everyone healthier. So does the timing matter when these guys know they are getting pulled in 4 and don't have to save anything at all? I think they will adapt pretty quickly here to any pitch clocks/moving game faster. The batting gloves are magically going to start fitting tighter also.

Frankly, I'm really convinced they are going to break Luzardo and Garrett if they try throwing them 180 innings. It may work a year or two, but they are going to break down throwing likely 40% sliders/curves. For perspective, Sandy is doing 78% fastball/changeup/sinkers and 22% sliders. He's the unicorn, but if you find those guys great. Honestly, they are doing pretty good here as Pablo/Rogers/Cabrera don't appear to be on a huge pitch mix path to destruction. They are doing what they need to do with Luzardo and Garret to extract value and that's fine and the performance speaks for itself. I just hope they temper expectations and slot them in for 130-150 innings next year and "McClanahan" their workload a bit. This also may quickly explain why Pablo is a "need" next year as after Sandy, is Rogers good? Cabrera will have a 120+ IP cap more than likely? Luzardo and Garrett are high risk arms and likely cap out 150 at absolute most? With no Meyer, Hernandez has been terrible, Poteet and Neiderts are unknowns, and Eury/Sixto/Eder/Fulton likely not premier options for next year.... SP doesn't have much to trade "today" even if "soon" there may be a massive surplus. Just saying. I want them to get a CF more than anything, but they have to trade from a real surplus. 

Sandy pitches with a 'throwback' mentality both of how he approaches starts and how he pitches on the mound.

Its refreshing and I hope more see the success Sandy has had and realized that yes, you can have great success using a fastball/changeup as your primary pitches.

Just now, Das Texan said:

Sandy pitches with a 'throwback' mentality both of how he approaches starts and how he pitches on the mound.

Its refreshing and I hope more see the success Sandy has had and realized that yes, you can have great success using a fastball/changeup as your primary pitches.

Yes to all these posts. Also he has the dominant FB velocity. So he can turn into that guy and not have to claw the value out of the slider like Garrett has to do as he throws extremely slow for a SP.

It's going to be a new class of pitchers. These guys who lose gas 4-5 innings in or throw all sliders are going to turn into 120 IP pitchers. Real hybrid SP/bulk relievers. Some of them are also probably going to be really really good and literal ace weapons. Luzardo/Garrett make a lot of sense here to help their arms not explode, as well as Sixto/Meyer as the smaller guys whose frame may not be able to go much more than that effectively. Maximize value, etc etc

I really think it would be wonderful if they stacked two of the 6 SP together next year. A 5th SP of Luzardo + Cabrera combo could just be a lights out 270 IP combo. Ideally no relievers are used. I'm not sure the ordering of the rotation, but if they put that directly before or after Sandy, your bullpen is likely extremely rested for the other 3 SP which will pay dividends all year in that phase also. I hope they do something like this as it makes a ton of sense and the innings work out for everyone. 

Still playing Aguilar or Cooper at first base and DHing the other of the two while Lewin Diaz stays on the bench despite being far and away the best glove at first base.

DLC hitting 4th?? Maybe Don's lineup card just says "put shitty RF here" in the 4 spot.

3 minutes ago, r5812 said:

DLC hitting 4th?? Maybe Don's lineup card just says "put shitty RF here" in the 4 spot.

Don takes names out of a hat

1 hour ago, Michael said:

Still playing Aguilar or Cooper at first base and DHing the other of the two while Lewin Diaz stays on the bench despite being far and away the best glove at first base.

Ever heard of veteran experience bug B

1 minute ago, pollythewog said:

Ever heard of veteran experience bug B

I thought I was bug B

26 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

I thought I was bug B

Quiet Vittle V

Can we fire all if the Marlins "reporters" while we're at it? I feel like on a lot of other teams, their manager would have at least been questioned ONCE about putting the team's worst hitter in the cleanup spot day after day after day. 

4 hours ago, SongInTheAir said:

Can we fire all if the Marlins "reporters" while we're at it? I feel like on a lot of other teams, their manager would have at least been questioned ONCE about putting the team's worst hitter in the cleanup spot day after day after day. 

The reporters never ask Don or Kim actual questions. Softballs day in and day out.

58 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

The reporters never ask Don or Kim actual questions. Softballs day in and day out.

To be fair, Don did say recently to reporters that the team is all pretty much the same player so maybe in his mind that's why his lineups seldom make sense.

1 hour ago, SonOfJack said:

The reporters never ask Don or Kim actual questions. Softballs day in and day out.

The marlins reporters seem mostly pretty young and underpaid and probably trying to “make it”

1 hour ago, hovertical said:

To be fair, Don did say recently to reporters that the team is all pretty much the same player so maybe in his mind that's why his lineups seldom make sense.

In a way, he’s not wrong. All of the hitters are terrible. 
 

And Kim Ng can’t do anything about it, apparently.

Just some more bad luck.

51 minutes ago, Erick said:

In a way, he’s not wrong. All of the hitters are terrible. 
 

And Kim Ng can’t do anything about it, apparently.

Just some more bad luck.

I really can't wait to see the trainwreck of an off-season this will be

2 hours ago, hovertical said:

To be fair, Don did say recently to reporters that the team is all pretty much the same player so maybe in his mind that's why his lineups seldom make sense.

Not surprisingly, Fangraphs also thinks this - https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/new-everyday-players-aug-9-2022/

TLDR - Bleday may be OK as a three true outcome hitter as he has a good eye, Burdick has to make more contact and then might be OK, Lewin chases too many pitches and will likely not be very good, and LeBlanc's power spike seems real, but he's selling out for it and won't hit for average amount to probably nothing.

You can really swap in Jazz (but hes a star at 2B with that profile), Sanchez, Garcia, and Soler above in that order and that sentence still works. This is 8 three true outcome hitter profiles pretty much.... and 4 of them are probably penciled in as starters next year, with Burdick/Sanchez fighting for 4th OF spot. Maybe 5th (or starting CF) also depending!

Hopefully Groshans is the beginning of a change here? He doesn't have this jack and walk profile.

It's good to have a few of these guys around - look at the mid 2000 Tigers who had Brandon Inge, Craig Monroe, Ryan Raburn, and..... Marcus Thames just jacking HR at the bottom of the order.  Those teams worked because they had Magglio Ordonez, Curtis Granderson (aka JAZZ), Carlos Guillen, Pudge(!), and good Placido Polanco (Wendle!) as the top of the order and the other guys weren't the core players but the secondary guys.

This just goes back to the very obvious statement - two really massive bats are needed. This team needs its Magglio and Guillen, and the the rest would likely fall into place from there. 

If anything the Fangraphs article is a pretty harsh indictment of the Marlins overall hitting philosophy.  I hope they figure that out from the bottom up as we have seen and this goes back to the Mike Hill days, they value an all or nothing approach (hence the three true outcomes).  

You will never win with a roster like this and yes hopefully Groshans is what they need.  You cannot sustain a lineup with guys that are all the same.  

And to Lewin, there is a reason he is never able to break through past Aguilar and Cooper (he isnt better than them as an overall player). If he was he would have beaten them out and passed them LONG ago.

21 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

Hopefully Groshans is the beginning of a change here? He doesn't have this jack and walk profile.

 

to be fair, jacking while walking is rather challenging.

2 hours ago, Erick said:

And Kim Ng can’t do anything about it, apparently.

This isn't getting enough coverage. Imagine a big market team GM saying what she said.

1 minute ago, SilverBullet said:

This isn't getting enough coverage. Imagine a big market team GM saying what she said.

I was talking to one of her big supporters last night and he saw no problem with what she said here. He said her hands are tied by Bruce Sherman being cheap.

1 minute ago, SilverBullet said:

This isn't getting enough coverage. Imagine a big market team GM saying what she said.

The whole franchise is a veritable clown show now - and NOBODY likes clowns.

Super cheapskate owner

GM who is in WAY over her head

Manager who has completely checked out and lost the clubhouse (yet nobody cares)

The absolute worst offense I can ever recall a Marlins team having

Zero top flight hitting prospects who are close to debuting

 

We do have the best damn message board though for fans ❤️

2 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

I was talking to one of her big supporters last night and he saw no problem with what she said here. He said her hands are tied by Bruce Sherman being cheap.

Yeah well Mike Hill's hands were tied by crap ownership too and he found ways and he never said there was nothing he could do about it. The job is specifically to make a winning team regardless of limitations.

4 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

This isn't getting enough coverage. Imagine a big market team GM saying what she said.

and if she ever does get fired - nobody will point that out either.

Before the deadline ended and even before the trade with Toronto materialized I did state on here that if she did do a trade it would come out ok because that seems to be the only thing she has done with any consistency here. 

But after her statements regarding sitting around and waiting for other teams to contact her - I'm honestly wondering if those trades only occurred because the other GM really wanted Marte for example and knew the deal would get done super fast if he dangled Luzardo for instance so all she had to do was say "sure".   I really do wonder if the other GMs brought that trade to the table for her to sign off on and she never actually did any of the back-and-forth with the other GM. 

We'll never actually know - but with her inability to even manage rosters or know anything about the players she signed it honestly wouldn't surprise me if that's how those trades got done.

3 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Yeah well Mike Hill's hands were tied by crap ownership too and he found ways and he never said there was nothing he could do about it. The job is specifically to make a winning team regardless of limitations.

to be fair to her she's never said anything negative either that I'm aware of - it's fans, journalists, etc. that have been making excuses for her this whole time. Hell, Frisaro blames us for the team lol.

19 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

If anything the Fangraphs article is a pretty harsh indictment of the Marlins overall hitting philosophy.  I hope they figure that out from the bottom up as we have seen and this goes back to the Mike Hill days, they value an all or nothing approach (hence the three true outcomes).  

You will never win with a roster like this and yes hopefully Groshans is what they need.  You cannot sustain a lineup with guys that are all the same.  

And to Lewin, there is a reason he is never able to break through past Aguilar and Cooper (he isnt better than them as an overall player). If he was he would have beaten them out and passed them LONG ago.

Yes, pretty harsh indeed. And fair.

They did want Reynolds badly this offseason, so maybe they get it. Two all around stud hitters, Cooper, Wendle/Groshans/Williams/Berti, Fortes, and the collection of all or nothings highlighted by Jazz is probably a good lineup.

But not sure how they get the two stud all around hitters absent money and dealing Pablo/Eury.

2 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

Yes, pretty harsh indeed. And fair.

They did want Reynolds badly this offseason, so maybe they get it. Two all around stud hitters, Cooper, Wendle/Groshans/Williams/Berti, Fortes, and the collection of all or nothings highlighted by Jazz is probably a good lineup.

But not sure how they get the two stud all around hitters absent money and dealing Pablo/Eury.

What bothered me about not trading for Reynolds is they've also run some of their prospect bats out there now to play and they haven't exactly done well so it may diminish the value the Pirates might have attached to a particular prospect as part of a package for him.  In addition, our guys will also be roughly a year older by the time the trade talks open up again in the offseason.  It was really a shame that that trade was just not made.  It also goes to show how incredibly reliant they are on Jazz to power the offense.  He's clearly the catalyst for the lineup and as he goes - the offense goes.