10 minutes ago, Erick said:

To be fair, this seems like a weird time to give up on the organization considering all we’ve been through as fans.

Things are better now than they’ve been in the past. 

Because it was preached that yes, we'll rebuild, but we're going to spend when the time is right.  And to your point, things are better now, but the time is right to spend NOW.  If not now, when?  We've stuck through it because of that (seemingly empty) promise.  We're now at the point to cash in on that promise, and now crickets and the usual "we're monitoring and trying" BS......aka "nobody will sign for our half market offer so we can't sign anyone".

You're just going to let your pitching staff hang out to dry again like last season?  And continue to preach "sustainability" when all you've done is sign a middling free agent and pretended that that was the key to solving our problems?

You're right, we've been through a lot, which is why they should've taken it more seriously and gone for it.  I keep going back to the line - they don't seem to care, why should I?

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by rmc523

1 minute ago, hovertical said:

I wholeheartedly disagree. Loria would have retained or scooped Marte up and I guarantee you he would have picked up Correa if that's all it took to sign him. Loria had a good farm system for awhile there too so it's not like he never had shit in the farm. He had a much better offense and this group has better pitching. They've just flipped the strengths around but Sherman is MUCH cheaper so this org is fucked.

Loria's problem - aside from backloaded deals he intended to trade away - was his meddling in the FO's trade targets and winding up with deals like Rodney for Paddack, Castillo for Strailey, etc.

Had he not meddled, we would've had the offense we had AND the pitching we needed.

1 hour ago, Das Texan said:

I said it last year.

Bruce Sherman is worse than Jeff Loria.

Fact. 

 

Jeff would have signed Correa.

And Jansen. 

And maybe someone else. 

Maybe Jansen, but Loria would have never signed Correa. Stop with this revisionist bullshit. Jeffrey's Loria's MO was to sign guys to huge backloaded contracts and trade them before their real payday came up. He did that EVERY TIME. So, he didn't really pay anyone and he severely crippled the farm to get rid of the "bad contracts." Sherman has certainly lost the benefit of the doubt, but stop falaciating Loria.

1 hour ago, Das Texan said:

 Jeff would have signed Correa.

And Jansen. 

And maybe someone else. 

Lol Jeff? We really hyping up Loria? 

Be optimistic. With a dh spot maybe Cooper can play more than 10 games. Also, last time the Marlins had a dh for the season they made the playoffs. 🙂

 

2 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I wholeheartedly disagree. Loria would have retained or scooped Marte up and I guarantee you he would have picked up Correa if that's all it took to sign him. Loria had a good farm system for awhile there too so it's not like he never had shit in the farm. He had a much better offense and this group has better pitching. They've just flipped the strengths around but Sherman is MUCH cheaper so this org is fucked.

We would’ve been excited about Loria’s moves and then they would’ve been a disaster as was the case the last time (only time?) he went on a spending spree. We’re lucky Albert Pujols didn’t join in on the fun then.

Free agency often ends up a disappointment long-term…although, yes, I agree that our payroll is laughable.

But Loria sucked, and most of his farm systems, overall, were trash.

Also, I think Kim Ng is better than Mike Hill from the standpoint that she’s done a good job finding undervalued relievers and we actually have an MLB caliber bench now. The Loria years never had any depth on the team. Right now, we have depth to overcome some injuries.

Honestly, if the team were to trade for a CF’er, which is still possible, most people would be happy. 
 

The bullpen could use another high leverage arm too, but whatever.

My point is that we’ve been through multiple disasters. Barry Jackson makes it sound like this is rock bottom.

2 hours ago, hovertical said:

Well, we all know why Marte didn't sign here either then as anything over 13mil per seems to be a no no for Sherman.

Sadly, MLB doesn't have the balls to try and force Sherman out. He really is cheaper than Loria as I suspected and said a long time ago. 

I'm guessing he's using the money he's taking in for other business ventures or to pay down debts.

I'd be pretty cheap too if I just spent over a billion dollars on this catastrophe of a franchise with no fans and barren revenue streams. Sherman bought into Jeter's snake oil salesman pitch that he would single-handedly turn the team around. What a joke for us, but a absolute financial nightmare for Sherman. He's not getting that 1.2 billion back if he sold now.

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by jsprt14

6 minutes ago, Erick said:

We would’ve been excited about Loria’s moves and then they would’ve been a disaster as was the case the last time (only time?) he went on a spending spree. We’re lucky Albert Pujols didn’t join in on the fun then.

Free agency often ends up a disappointment long-term…although, yes, I agree that our payroll is laughable.

But Loria sucked, and most of his farm systems, overall, were trash.

Also, I think Kim Ng is better than Mike Hill from the standpoint that she’s done a good job finding undervalued relievers and we actually have an MLB caliber bench now. The Loria years never had any depth on the team. Right now, we have depth to overcome some injuries.

Honestly, if the team were to trade for a CF’er, which is still possible, most people would be happy. 
 

The bullpen could use another high leverage arm too, but whatever.

My point is that we’ve been through multiple disasters. Barry Jackson makes it sound like this is rock bottom.

It is rock bottom for me. Not because Sherman isn't spending, but because the state of the franchise just has not improved. The stadium has done absolutely nothing to fix these horrific attendance numbers. Sherman isn't spending because the franchise isn't making money. At least before idiot Jeter we had Stanton, Yelich, Realmuto, Ozuna. What did the Yankee clown leave us with?

Fuck Jeter because he was the ONLY reason Sherman got this franchise and now he dips out to likely go end up back with the Yankees which is where he should've stayed all along. 

I would LOVE to see Ng resign and just put Sherman on blast for not being given any financial flexibility to do her job. I know she won't but that would really put a stamp on Sherman being a pile of shit. I respect the hell out of Flores for not taking the separation deal that included an NDA so he could still speak out. Would love for Kim to peace out and just tear Sherman a new one. 

19 minutes ago, FishFan95 said:

Maybe Jansen, but Loria would have never signed Correa. Stop with this revisionist bullshit. Jeffrey's Loria's MO was to sign guys to huge backloaded contracts and trade them before their real payday came up. He did that EVERY TIME. So, he didn't really pay anyone and he severely crippled the farm to get rid of the "bad contracts." Sherman has certainly lost the benefit of the doubt, but stop falaciating Loria.

Yeah. All of this "Loria would have done this and done that" stuff is funny to me. This entire fanbase lambasted Loria during his entire tenure here. If Loria really would have done all of the stuff people here are saying he would have done, the Marlins would have had many more playoff appearances and possibly more championships.

Sherman has proven to be incredibly cheap thus far, but let's not sit here and pretend Loria was any better. I mean, for crying out loud, he failed to buy out Miguel freaking Cabrera's arbitration years when all he needed to do was probably give him a deal similar to the one he gave Hanley.

9 minutes ago, jsprt14 said:

I'd be pretty cheap too if I just spent over a billion dollars on this catastrophe of a franchise with no fans and barren revenue streams. Sherman bought into Jeter's snake oil salesman pitch that he would single-handedly turn the team around. What a joke for us, but a absolute financial nightmare for Sherman. He's not getting that 1.2 billion back if he sold now.

I don't buy into Sherman being fooled.  We knew that it would take multiple winning seasons to fully gain back the trust of the fans and that it FIRST required a committment by the organization, not first by the fans.  Did Sherman believe that by making the playoffs in an aberration of  season by going 31-29 that 2021 would see packed stadiums?  The fans were right, 2021 was a shit show and now what-with every team in the division getting better, much better, does he expect fans to flock to the stadium?  I think Sherman's big mistake was thinking Jeter was the answer but that should not have fooled him into thinking he would not have to pony up and now Ng is running the show.  Neither one came with experience being the top gun in building a team.   

6 minutes ago, jsprt14 said:

It is rock bottom for me. Not because Sherman isn't spending, but because the state of the franchise just has not improved. The stadium has done absolutely nothing to fix these horrific attendance numbers. Sherman isn't spending because the franchise isn't making money. At least before idiot Jeter we had Stanton, Yelich, Realmuto, Ozuna. What did the Yankee clown leave us with?

The overall situation is better now than it was then. 

I understand your point about not spending because part of the reason it’s better now is payroll flexibility. Still though, we have better pitching, depth, and more payroll flexibility now. If we still had the Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto situation, it’d be more depressing to have that in 2022. I’m not sure how anyone disagrees with that.

3 minutes ago, Erick said:

The overall situation is better now than it was then. 

I understand your point about not spending because part of the reason it’s better now is payroll flexibility. Still though, we have better pitching, depth, and more payroll flexibility now. If we still had the Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto situation, it’d be more depressing to have that in 2022. I’m not sure how anyone disagrees with that.

Because we are just as bad, but now much less entertaining. Jeter built a **** product plain and simple. Most of the trades were terrible and his drafting wasn't any better.

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by jsprt14

3 minutes ago, Erick said:

The overall situation is better now than it was then. 

I understand your point about not spending because part of the reason it’s better now is payroll flexibility. Still though, we have better pitching, depth, and more payroll flexibility now. If we still had the Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto situation, it’d be more depressing to have that in 2022. I’m not sure how anyone disagrees with that.

I think this is precisely the reason people are upset.

The Marlins actually aren't that far away from contending. All it would have taken were a couple of more moves (particularly bats), and they would be right in the thick of things (especially with playoff expansion).

I do understand your point, but I think it's the whole "so close but yet so far away" thing that's bothering people here.

3 minutes ago, Erick said:

The overall situation is better now than it was then. 

I understand your point about not spending because part of the reason it’s better now is payroll flexibility. Still though, we have better pitching, depth, and more payroll flexibility now. If we still had the Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto situation, it’d be more depressing to have that in 2022. I’m not sure how anyone disagrees with that.

Dude there's no payroll flexibility lololol just because the payroll is less doesn't mean there's flexibility. Sherman doesn't spend. You can hate on Loria all you want and I certainly didn't like him either but he actually did seem to want to win versus Sherman who's just using it for his own ATM.

2 minutes ago, jsprt14 said:

Because we are just as bad, but now much less entertaining. Jeter built a **** product plain and simple. Most of the trades were terrible and his drafting wasn't any better.

I guess that’s subjective.

I think the team is more entertaining now than it was then. 

2 minutes ago, hovertical said:

Dude there's no payroll flexibility lololol just because the payroll is less doesn't mean there's flexibility. Sherman doesn't spend. You can hate on Loria all you want and I certainly didn't like him either but he actually did seem to want to win versus Sherman who's just using it for his own ATM.

Yeah he wanted to win so badly that he failed to buy out Cabrera's arbitration years and traded him when he was on the cusp of becoming the most dominant hitter in baseball and likely cost us multiple playoff appearances in the process.

Sherman sucks so far, but this Loria revisionist stuff is ridiculous.

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by Valid

Loria made out like a bandit. $1.2 Billion for a failing business.  Sherman bought into clueless Jeter's vanity project and is now stuck with the mess.

4 minutes ago, Valid said:

Yeah he wanted to win so badly that he failed to buy out Cabrera's arbitration years and traded him when he was on the cusp of becoming the most dominant hitter in baseball and likely cost us multiple playoff appearances in the process.

Sherman sucks so far, but this Loria revisionist stuff is ridiculous.

Seriously, everyone is forgetting how much they hated Loria apparently. 

Loria sucked. Sherman also sucks.

Man, will we ever have a good owner?

4 minutes ago, Valid said:

Yeah he wanted to win so badly that he failed to buy out Cabrera's arbitration years and traded him when he was on the cusp of becoming the most dominant hitter in baseball and likely cost us multiple playoff appearances in the process.

Sherman sucks so far, but this Loria revisionist stuff is ridiculous.

You act like we're making Loria out to be the best owner in all of baseball. We're just pointing out that he was not as cheap as Sherman and actually wanted to win. He had some shit luck with FAs that he did sign and the teams never played well and as a result he cut bait. Sherman won't even do that though. Loria did some dumb as dog shit trades but he did actually spend far more than Sherman is willing to do. That's all we're saying here. 

1 minute ago, SonOfJack said:

Loria sucked. Sherman also sucks.

Man, will we ever have a good owner?

This. I agree they both sucked too. Just because I say Loria wasn't as cheap as Sherman doesn't mean I suddenly love Loria.

6 minutes ago, hovertical said:

You act like we're making Loria out to be the best owner in all of baseball. We're just pointing out that he was not as cheap as Sherman and actually wanted to win. He had some shit luck with FAs that he did sign and the teams never played well and as a result he cut bait. Sherman won't even do that though. Loria did some dumb as dog shit trades but he did actually spend far more than Sherman is willing to do. That's all we're saying here. 

No. I'm saying you are all saying Loria would have done things that he wouldn't have done.

If Loria "wanted to win" as much as you say he did, he wouldn't have botched things with Cabrera so badly. Let's also not forget that he signed Delgado and then traded him after one season (a season in which the Marlins contended for a playoff spot) because he backloaded the deal and didn't want to actually pay him. We had Cabrera-Delgado in the middle of the order and Loria moved on from Delgado after just one year. Lol. Guess he really "wanted to win."

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by Valid

23 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I would LOVE to see Ng resign and just put Sherman on blast for not being given any financial flexibility to do her job. I know she won't but that would really put a stamp on Sherman being a pile of shit

Yeah it'd be nice, but I agree she won't quit. This will reflect badly on her though since he'll likely fire her eventually and make her the scapegoat for him being a cheap fuck.

3 minutes ago, Valid said:

No. I'm saying you are all saying Loria would have done things that he wouldn't have done.

If Loria "wanted to win" as much as you say he did, he wouldn't have botched things with Cabrera so badly. Let's also not forget that he signed Delgado and then traded him after one season (a season in which the Marlins contended for a playoff spot) because he backloaded the deal and didn't want to actually pay him.

So you're saying then that you wouldn't have like to seen Correa or Bryant come here on a back loaded deal to try and hold down the fort while the kids get ready to come up in a year or two? 

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by hovertical
Sigh

4 minutes ago, hovertical said:

So you're saying then that you wouldn't have like to seen Correa or Bryant come here on a back loaded deal to try and hold down the fort while their kids get ready to come up in a year or two? 

It probably wouldn't have happened. You act like Loria did that so much. He did it with Delgado in 2005 and Reyes in 2012. And then traded them both after one season lmao.

And even if he did sign Correa or Bryant, he probably would have traded them after one season.

Let's just agree that Sherman sucks and that Loria wasn't any better. We could have had Cabrera/Hanley/Stanton in the middle of our order and Loria found a way to botch it by not achieving the simple task of buying out Cabrera's arbitration years.

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by Valid