3 hours ago, Erick said:

You know it’s bad when Joe Frisaro is getting impatient with the front office.

Absolutely. Him and Barry Jackson and others getting on the team is a terrible sign for us fans.

 

3 hours ago, hovertical said:

Well, we all know why Marte didn't sign here either then as anything over 13mil per seems to be a no no for Sherman.

Sadly, MLB doesn't have the balls to try and force Sherman out. He really is cheaper than Loria as I suspected and said a long time ago. 

I'm guessing he's using the money he's taking in for other business ventures or to pay down debts.

The other owners are probably happy Sherman's here cause that's less competition for them at this point. "Well we know at least one team won't be in on this superstar!"

3 hours ago, Entendu said:

https://amp.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article259559214.html

Kim says they don't want to mortgage the future....

At this point, get Conforto so we can go back to hoping things turn out right rather than expecting them to. This organization is cursed.

(See under next quote)

2 hours ago, hovertical said:

Just like I thought and said they'd do. The same old "we don't want to l mortgage the future" bullshit to remain cheap. While also touting their prospects as being great and just needing  more playing time. The farm is deep enough to afford getting some real talent in but nope. Gonna stay cheap and never EVER compete because of a piece of shit owner who also thinks 12mil per is borderline outrageous and won't sign anyone over that. 

The whole thing with mortgaging the future is ridiculous. We're not doing that at all! As @MarlinsLou has stated multiple times in this thread, we have basically an entire roster under multiple years of control. The future should be RIGHT NOW. Traded three to five prospects for Reynolds should not "mortgage" the future when we have so many players under three, four, five, six years of club control. Reynolds is also four years of control. If they're worried about the farm taking a huge hit, I have great news for them - THEY HAVE A FEW YEARS TO REBUILD IT! We're not going to get a trophy in 2028 saying "had a top 10 farm system for a decade" so we may as well empty out half the farm so we can win now and potentially a couple more times before many of these players under three to six years of control or contract are ready to go (or be extended), by which time, we can have the farm rebuilt! Or, alternatively, if some of our guys pan out, sign them long term so the farm won't matter as much, and still, there will be more time to rebuild it.

 

The Dodgers and Rays are consistently good and consistently have a strong farm system. It's doable.

 

1 hour ago, Valid said:

As good as Reynolds is, I don't think he is that type of a difference maker. He isn't Miguel Cabrera or Giancarlo Stanton.

This team needed multiple bats. Had they landed a deal for someone else (e.g. Castellanos or Schwarber) and traded for Reynolds, then we'd be talking. But I don't think Reynolds on his own solves the problem.

I'll disagree that Reynolds is not a difference maker. He wouldn't have the presence of the two you mentioned, but adding his bat to the lineup makes it a much deeper lineup. Imagine being able to bat Avisail sixth and BA seventh.

Mix and match here, but ...

Jazz, Reynolds, Aguilar, Cooper, Sanchez, Garcia, Anderson, Rojas, Stallings

I'd very much take that lineup! Maybe even switch Garcia and Sanchez, put Reynolds third and Rojas second, this lineup can move around a bit.

1 hour ago, Erick said:

To be fair, this seems like a weird time to give up on the organization considering all we’ve been through as fans.

Things are better now than they’ve been in the past. 

Yes but has Sherman shown the capability or desire to take the next step forward?

We're better than in the past but now there's a massive roadblock in the way and Sherman hasn't proven he can get around it.

I'd be way more confident if he takes the next step forward. 

2 minutes ago, Valid said:

It probably wouldn't have happened. You act like Loria did that so much. He did it with Delgado in 2005 and Reyes in 2012. And then traded them both after one season lmao.

And even if he did sign Correa or Bryant, he probably would have traded them after one season.

Let's just agree that Sherman sucks and that Loria wasn't any better. We could have had Cabrera/Hanley/Stanton in the middle of our order and Loria found a way to botch it by not achieving the simple task of buying out Cabrera's arbitration years..

This is fairly accurate. Loria was very happy to shell out money to "attempt" to win and if by mid-season it wasn't happening, players were gone.

I actually blame 2012 on Stanton. Had he not elected to get surgery in early July that he probably could have held off until the offseason, Loria probably doesn't order the team to be blown up. lol. But alas.

I am guessing Sherman thinks there is a base for attendance and tv ratings that he'll get no matter what the roster is, but he may be wrong on that. Even some diehard fans are fed up this time.

1 hour ago, Erick said:

To be fair, this seems like a weird time to give up on the organization considering all we’ve been through as fans.

Things are better now than they’ve been in the past. 

 

2 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Yes but has Sherman shown the capability or desire to take the next step forward?

We're better than in the past but now there's a massive roadblock in the way and Sherman hasn't proven he can get around it.

I'd be way more confident if he takes the next step forward. 

Things are better in that there actually seems to be the potential for a good team in the future should the prospects pan out.

... and that's it. I'd rather not wait anymore. lol

1 minute ago, Valid said:

It probably wouldn't have happened. You act like Loria did that so much. He did it with Delgado in 2005 and Reyes in 2012. And then traded them both after one season lmao.

And even if he did sign Correa or Bryant, he probably would have traded them after one season.

Let's just agree that Sherman sucks and that Loria wasn't any better.

He spent quite a bit in addition to Reyes and almost got Pujols prior to the new stadium opening. Again, that would have been an awful thing but also, again, my whole argument is that Loria was nowhere near as cheap as Sherman is. He wanted to win, he just made some horrid trades and signings that never seemed to pan out and never led to wins which also meant fans didn't care. But he did spend a lot more than Sherman did. That's ALL I'm saying here. He was not as cheap.

@Michael

I didn't say Reynolds wasn't a difference maker; I just said he isn't the type of difference maker that can transform an entire lineup like a Cabrera or a Stanton. While the lineup you mentioned looks decent on paper, there are also a ton of question marks (health, if Garcia's every other year trend continues, etc.).

Not saying I wouldn't like Reynolds; just saying I am not entirely sure it is even worth raking the farm for him now that we haven't really done anything else since the lockout ended.

Just now, Valid said:

@Michael

I didn't say Reynolds wasn't a difference maker; I just said he isn't the type of difference maker that can transform an entire lineup like a Cabrera or a Stanton. While the lineup you mentioned looks decent on paper, there are also a ton of question marks (health, if Garcia's every other year trend continues, etc.).

Not saying I wouldn't like Reynolds; just saying I am not entirely sure it is even worth raking the farm for him now that we haven't really done anything else since the lockout ended.

I would say it is worth it for the reasons I mentioned - the team has so many players under long term control, which Reynolds would be as well (for four years), so there's time to rebuild the farm system while also really going for it, and losing three to five solid prospects would hurt, but as they say, winning cures all. And I think that team would be able to win - just, as you mentioned and I absolutely agree with, health pending.

Realistically, we'd be lucky if half the top prospects pan out. Likely less than that will.  What exactly are we trying to sustain by hoarding prospects? Being a losing team?

35 minutes ago, Valid said:

I think this is precisely the reason people are upset.

The Marlins actually aren't that far away from contending. All it would have taken were a couple of more moves (particularly bats), and they would be right in the thick of things (especially with playoff expansion).

I do understand your point, but I think it's the whole "so close but yet so far away" thing that's bothering people here.

This is well said.

We are better now than before... but what's next? If we aren't getting better than we are today today we're not moving any further. 

I'm actually gonna say we don't know for sure that Sherman is cheaper than Loria. We kinda haven't seen his "way" of spending yet. He literally said 5 days ago that he was gonna spend. I think it's more incompetence than being cheap at this point. Maybe that's a hot take right now. 

Just now, SilverBullet said:

He literally said 5 days ago that he was gonna spend

Is he gonna create some new free agents to spend on?

58 minutes ago, jsprt14 said:

It is rock bottom for me. Not because Sherman isn't spending, but because the state of the franchise just has not improved. The stadium has done absolutely nothing to fix these horrific attendance numbers. Sherman isn't spending because the franchise isn't making money. At least before idiot Jeter we had Stanton, Yelich, Realmuto, Ozuna. What did the Yankee clown leave us with?

Agreed completely .

47 minutes ago, fish53 said:

I don't buy into Sherman being fooled.  We knew that it would take multiple winning seasons to fully gain back the trust of the fans and that it FIRST required a committment by the organization, not first by the fans.  Did Sherman believe that by making the playoffs in an aberration of  season by going 31-29 that 2021 would see packed stadiums?  The fans were right, 2021 was a shit show and now what-with every team in the division getting better, much better, does he expect fans to flock to the stadium?  I think Sherman's big mistake was thinking Jeter was the answer but that should not have fooled him into thinking he would not have to pony up and now Ng is running the show.  Neither one came with experience being the top gun in building a team.   

This 100%

47 minutes ago, Erick said:

The overall situation is better now than it was then. 

I understand your point about not spending because part of the reason it’s better now is payroll flexibility. Still though, we have better pitching, depth, and more payroll flexibility now. If we still had the Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto situation, it’d be more depressing to have that in 2022. I’m not sure how anyone disagrees with that.

As others have said, better than we were sure, but now what?  They’re not doing anything to take that next step.  And payroll flexibility only helps if you’re willing to spend to use that flexibility.

2 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I'm actually gonna say we don't know for sure that Sherman is cheaper than Loria. We kinda haven't seen his "way" of spending yet. He literally said 5 days ago that he was gonna spend. I think it's more incompetence than being cheap at this point. Maybe that's a hot take right now. 

No we don’t.  But he said that and now the big free agent difference makers are now signed and off the board, so who’s he going to spend on?  It’ll be throwing out money to say they spent at this point.

3 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Is he gonna create some new free agents to spend on?

Proves my point. He's more of an idiot than a cheap ass possibly. 

He's got a lot of money to spend but he went to the store after the store had already closed because he didn't realize what the business hours were. 

That's the way I see it.

2 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Proves my point. He's more of an idiot than a cheap ass possibly. 

He's got a lot of money to spend but he went to the store after the store had already closed because he didn't realize what the business hours were. 

That's the way I see it.

I think it is far more likely that he's a cheap ass.

37 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Is he gonna create some new free agents to spend on?

If he wants he can give any “nobody FA” 100MM contact. 

45 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

He's more of an idiot than a cheap ass possibly. 

 

 

42 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

I think it is far more likely that he's a cheap ass.

Sherman is cheap AND stupid... You're both right!

So @Erick what happens if Opening Day comes and they still haven't done more?

Should we tag along for another lackluster season because the farm is nicer than ever? 

Bruce Sherman is really good at running a minor league system!

20 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

So @Erick what happens if Opening Day comes and they still haven't done more?

Should we tag along for another lackluster season because the farm is nicer than ever? 

My point is, no more moves would be disappointing, but the timing of Barry Jackson’s tweets this morning are weird.

You would think it’s the first year of the rebuild or the year we had Mark Hendrickson as the Opening Day SP with the way he’s telling fans to enjoy the game for the sake of basically eating hot dogs and hanging out with friends.

The current situation doesn’t even rank in the top 10 of all-time most depressing Marlins Opening Day moments.

I’ll be rooting for Sandy Alcantara to beat the Giants on Opening Day because every team is 0-0 on Opening Day, and Sandy Alcantara (who probably got the best contract extension in franchise history this offseason) is pretty good.

For what it’s worth, I also agree with @Valid on not being sure that Reynolds is the ultimate difference maker for this team.

I’m not sure we’re a playoff team with him either, and the pitching depth we’d be trading away isn’t completely irrelevant. Our SP is nice, but has its own question marks. Guys are inexperienced, have durability concerns, and, in the case of Luzardo…he had his struggles last year. This doesn’t even take injuries into account which always happens in a season, especially to SP’s. Guys like Cabrera and Meyer aren’t irrelevant to winning games this season.

I would actually rather give up less to acquire a CF’er although I’m not sure who that CF’er would be at this point. 

3 minutes ago, Erick said:

My point is, no more moves would be disappointing, but the timing of Barry Jackson’s tweets this morning are weird.

You would think it’s the first year of the rebuild or the year we had Mark Hendrickson as the Opening Day SP with the way he’s telling fans to enjoy the game for the sake of basically eating hot dogs and hanging out with friends.

The current situation doesn’t even rank in the top 10 of all-time most depressing Marlins Opening Day moments.

I’ll be rooting for Sandy Alcantara to beat the Giants on Opening Day because every team is 0-0 on Opening Day, and Sandy Alcantara (who probably got the best contract extension in franchise history this offseason) is pretty good.

Yea I get all that. But most of those bad years we all had some hope even if it was false hope. Right now Barry Jackson and most fans are saying enough is enough as far as hope. If they do nothing by Opening Day this year I think that it's fair to feel pretty hopeless so not sure how anyone can feel any good about this team anymore until they prove otherwise. And I love what they've done with the farm and most other things to this point but as for what's next they've done nothing until they've done something. I'm ready for the next step and I don't see that next step.

4 minutes ago, Erick said:

For what it’s worth, I also agree with @Valid on not being sure that Reynolds is the ultimate difference maker for this team.

I’m not sure we’re a playoff team with him either, and the pitching depth we’d be trading away isn’t completely irrelevant. Our SP is nice, but has its own question marks. Guys are inexperienced, have durability concerns, and, in the case of Luzardo…he had his struggles last year. This doesn’t even take injuries into account which always happens in a season, especially to SP’s. Guys like Cabrera and Meyer aren’t irrelevant to winning games this season.

I would actually rather give up less to acquire a CF’er although I’m not sure who that CF’er would be at this point. 

Yea that too. Everyone seems to realize they're not just one move away and it seems like Sherman and Ng seem to think just one move is gonna be enough. 

It's a nice car with 4 flat tires and Bruce Sherman thinks it's ok to just buy one new tire. 

1 minute ago, SilverBullet said:

Yea I get all that. But most of those bad years we all had some hope even if it was false hope. Right now Barry Jackson and most fans are saying enough is enough as far as hope. If they do nothing by Opening Day this year I think that it's fair to feel pretty hopeless so not sure how anyone can feel any good about this team anymore until they prove otherwise. And I love what they've done with the farm and most other things to this point but as for what's next they've done nothing until they've done something. I'm ready for the next step and I don't see that next step.

The current team right now has more hope than the entertaining Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto teams that everyone seems to be missing today.

That team towards the end was way more depressing than what we currently have, especially factoring in Jose’s death.

The odds are against the current team, but I don’t think it’s a hopeless team especially with the expanded playoff format.