3 hours ago, FishFan95 said:

Maybe Jansen, but Loria would have never signed Correa. Stop with this revisionist bullshit. Jeffrey's Loria's MO was to sign guys to huge backloaded contracts and trade them before their real payday came up. He did that EVERY TIME. So, he didn't really pay anyone and he severely crippled the farm to get rid of the "bad contracts." Sherman has certainly lost the benefit of the doubt, but stop falaciating Loria.

what major free agent has Bruce Sherman gotten to put their name on the line that is dotted?

I'll wait for your answer. 

3 hours ago, jsprt14 said:

I'd be pretty cheap too if I just spent over a billion dollars on this catastrophe of a franchise with no fans and barren revenue streams. Sherman bought into Jeter's snake oil salesman pitch that he would single-handedly turn the team around. What a joke for us, but a absolute financial nightmare for Sherman. He's not getting that 1.2 billion back if he sold now.

If not for Derek Jeter, Bruce Sherman is not sitting on the cash cow he has now.

At least Loria was a competent grafter. Sherman's a joke. Pretty much stumbled into a MLB club with the help of Jeter.

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by Entendu

For what it’s worth, while most fans think the window to compete should begin this season, it’s quite possible that the front office hasn’t seen enough from the core players to believe it’s time to spend around them.

To be fair, maybe they’re not wrong. We’re maybe a little too excited about some of the young players, especially position players. When, in reality, they haven’t proven enough/they have to get better this season in order to make the playoffs regardless of who the CF’er is.

3 hours ago, Valid said:

Yeah he wanted to win so badly that he failed to buy out Cabrera's arbitration years and traded him when he was on the cusp of becoming the most dominant hitter in baseball and likely cost us multiple playoff appearances in the process.

Sherman sucks so far, but this Loria revisionist stuff is ridiculous.

make no mistake, Loria was a disaster.

To say that Loria was better just shows how fucking awful Sherman is....

1 minute ago, Das Texan said:

make no mistake, Loria was a disaster.

To say that Loria was better just shows how fucking awful Sherman is....

Maybe Sherman’s doing this on purpose because he doesn’t want people like you joining the bandwagon. Go away.

5 minutes ago, Erick said:

For what it’s worth, while most fans think the window to compete should begin this season, it’s quite possible that the front office hasn’t seen enough from the core players to believe it’s time to spend around them.

To be fair, maybe they’re not wrong. We’re maybe a little too excited about some of the young players, especially position players. When, in reality, they haven’t proven enough/they have to get better this season in order to make the playoffs regardless of who the CF’er is.

The lack of trust in the offense is all the more reason they should have been aggressive with offensive pieces this past offseason.

With the starting staff they have along with the many options in the minors, just some competent offensive pieces and good defensive pieces and you might have a team that can make noise.

But alas they started the job, had the lockout come around and then decided, nah doing half the job is better than doing nothing.  We are good.

Sherman is the one who stupidly said the Marlins were going to spend money.

When? 2025?

5 minutes ago, Erick said:

Maybe Sherman’s doing this on purpose because he doesn’t want people like you joining the bandwagon. Go away.

Don't worry about that.

1 minute ago, Das Texan said:

The lack of trust in the offense is all the more reason they should have been aggressive with offensive pieces this past offseason.

With the starting staff they have along with the many options in the minors, just some competent offensive pieces and good defensive pieces and you might have a team that can make noise.

But alas they started the job, had the lockout come around and then decided, nah doing half the job is better than doing nothing.  We are good.

Sherman is the one who stupidly said the Marlins were going to spend money.

When? 2025?

The Bryan Reynolds trade being speculated is a “final piece of the puzzle” type of trade.

Is Reynolds that guy for this team?

That’s the type of trade you make when you already trust the offense.

I understand the “when? 2025?” point that you’re making, but the reality is they’ve done a bad job developing hitters. There are more question marks than answers.

Probably the only guy on the roster who has proven that he has minimal question marks (Sandy) got a contract extension this offseason. 

Even the pitching has to prove more to go all in. 

SP

Pablo (durability concerns)

Rogers (1 good year…how good is he?)

Elieser (not necessarily a stud, and…also, durability concerns)

Luzardo (bad last year. Can we develop him like we did with Rogers?)

We have some nice young pieces, but they have to answer some questions. At the same time, it’s what makes Opening Day this season more exciting than years past imo. And the reason why I don’t understand Barry’s point this morning.

It’s the type of team that if some things go right, we can make the playoffs. If the young guys regress, it’s another 90 loss season. 
 

Baseball can be weird too. Look at the Giants last year.

10 minutes ago, Erick said:

For what it’s worth, while most fans think the window to compete should begin this season, it’s quite possible that the front office hasn’t seen enough from the core players to believe it’s time to spend around them.

To be fair, maybe they’re not wrong. We’re maybe a little too excited about some of the young players, especially position players. When, in reality, they haven’t proven enough/they have to get better this season in order to make the playoffs regardless of who the CF’er is.

All of us knew it would take two premium or very good bats plus some bullpen upgrades going into this season. But their frontline pitching is so good and deep and CHEAP that it's just an insult to not bump payroll up to even 90mil. A 100mil payroll would have likely gotten this team into the mix with our loaded division. We even saw guys like Kenley sign one a one year deal. There's virtually ZERO risk in that signing and it would have helped cross off one of our key needs. Even that Correa signing has little risk and would have made a massive difference to this club. Marte not being signed was idiotic as was not bringing back JT last off-season when. All cheapness. 100% cheapness and zero desire to actually win. They could have had ALL the prospects from those two trades AND gotten the player back at a very reasonable cost and we'd STILL be bottom third of the league in payroll. But instead both go to division rivals while we listen to them thump their chest about their wondrous farm system. Just fucking brain dead and cheap for no reason other than greed. He's literally using the team as his personal ATM machine at this point

2 minutes ago, Erick said:

The Bryan Reynolds trade being speculated is a “final piece of the puzzle” type of trade.

Is Reynolds that guy for this team?

That’s the type of trade you make when you already trust the offense.

I understand the “when? 2025?” point that you’re making, but the reality is they’ve done a bad job developing hitters. There are more question marks than answers.

Probably the only guy on the roster who has proven that he has minimal question marks (Sandy) got a contract extension this offseason. 

Even the pitching has to prove more to go all in. 

SP

Pablo (durability concerns)

Rogers (1 good year…how good is he?)

Elieser (not necessarily a stud, and…also, durability concerns)

Luzardo (bad last year. Can we develop him like we did with Rogers?)

We have some nice young pieces, but they have to answer some questions. At the same time, it’s what makes Opening Day this season more exciting than years past imo. And the reason why I don’t understand Barry’s point this morning.

It’s the type of team that if some things go right, we can make the playoffs. If the young guys regress, it’s another 90 loss season. 
 

Baseball can be weird too. Look at the Giants last year.

The Giants also have a history of success and had proven guys on that roster.

The Marlins? not so much. 

you use free agency to boost what you cant develop.  Bruce Sherman I guess never got that memo. 

Its why the Marte decision was so fucking stupid.  You have plenty of payroll space.  You literally have no real CF for AAA in 2022, and you let him goto a division rival over really a few million dollars.

Cheap. Inexecusible.  

Just now, Das Texan said:

The Giants also have a history of success and had proven guys on that roster.

The Marlins? not so much. 

you use free agency to boost what you cant develop.  Bruce Sherman I guess never got that memo. 

Its why the Marte decision was so fucking stupid.  You have plenty of payroll space.  You literally have no real CF for AAA in 2022, and you let him goto a division rival over really a few million dollars.

Cheap. Inexecusible.  

According to rumors, they wanted Marte back and he decided to sign in NY. 

As for the Giants, my point is no one expected that last year. Not even close.

8 minutes ago, Erick said:

According to rumors, they wanted Marte back and he decided to sign in NY. 

Mets offered more money according to rumors.

6 minutes ago, Erick said:

According to rumors, they wanted Marte back and he decided to sign in NY. 

As for the Giants, my point is no one expected that last year. Not even close.

They wanted Marte back but for cheap. They probably wanted JT back but for cheap too. Money talks. Marte openly expressed a desire to stay in Miami before he was traded and even after the season so naturally that meant Sherman decided to low-ball him thinking he'd take some cut rate deal.

42 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

what major free agent has Bruce Sherman gotten to put their name on the line that is dotted?

I'll wait for your answer. 

He hasn't. But that wasn't the point. Sherman not doing anything does not mean that Loria ever paid anyone. He may have signed a few stars, but name one that he retained when the backloaded portions of their contracts came up. I'll wait.

He never really paid anyone. It was all bullshit. And he had to compromise the farm to get rid of the contracts in the end.

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by FishFan95

5 minutes ago, hovertical said:

They wanted Marte back but for cheap. They probably wanted JT back but for cheap too. Money talks. Marte openly expressed a desire to stay in Miami before he was traded and even after the season so naturally that meant Sherman decided to low-ball him thinking he'd take some cut rate deal.

Ok but you then have to analyze if it would’ve been worth it to bring him back.

Historically speaking, spending the money on an aging CF’er who relies on speed is not necessarily the best investment. 

36 minutes ago, Erick said:

For what it’s worth, while most fans think the window to compete should begin this season, it’s quite possible that the front office hasn’t seen enough from the core players to believe it’s time to spend around them.

To be fair, maybe they’re not wrong. We’re maybe a little too excited about some of the young players, especially position players. When, in reality, they haven’t proven enough/they have to get better this season in order to make the playoffs regardless of who the CF’er is.

This is a moving goal post though.  When is everyone ever ready?  That’s why they needed to make several moves to shore up a few areas of need!

it’s why I’ve argued for in addition to outfield help, I want a vet starter for innings/protection from injuries.

you may be right.  But we’re going to be forever waiting and wasting what we do have for some hypothetical and hopeful “we’re ready” date sometime in the future who knows when?

 

18 minutes ago, Erick said:

The Bryan Reynolds trade being speculated is a “final piece of the puzzle” type of trade.

Is Reynolds that guy for this team?

That’s the type of trade you make when you already trust the offense.

I understand the “when? 2025?” point that you’re making, but the reality is they’ve done a bad job developing hitters. There are more question marks than answers.

Probably the only guy on the roster who has proven that he has minimal question marks (Sandy) got a contract extension this offseason. 

Even the pitching has to prove more to go all in. 

SP

Pablo (durability concerns)

Rogers (1 good year…how good is he?)

Elieser (not necessarily a stud, and…also, durability concerns)

Luzardo (bad last year. Can we develop him like we did with Rogers?)

We have some nice young pieces, but they have to answer some questions. At the same time, it’s what makes Opening Day this season more exciting than years past imo. And the reason why I don’t understand Barry’s point this morning.

It’s the type of team that if some things go right, we can make the playoffs. If the young guys regress, it’s another 90 loss season. 
 

Baseball can be weird too. Look at the Giants last year.

see above.

16 minutes ago, hovertical said:

All of us knew it would take two premium or very good bats plus some bullpen upgrades going into this season. But their frontline pitching is so good and deep and CHEAP that it's just an insult to not bump payroll up to even 90mil. A 100mil payroll would have likely gotten this team into the mix with our loaded division. We even saw guys like Kenley sign one a one year deal. There's virtually ZERO risk in that signing and it would have helped cross off one of our key needs. Even that Correa signing has little risk and would have made a massive difference to this club. Marte not being signed was idiotic as was not bringing back JT last off-season when. All cheapness. 100% cheapness and zero desire to actually win. They could have had ALL the prospects from those two trades AND gotten the player back at a very reasonable cost and we'd STILL be bottom third of the league in payroll. But instead both go to division rivals while we listen to them thump their chest about their wondrous farm system. Just fucking brain dead and cheap for no reason other than greed. He's literally using the team as his personal ATM machine at this point

This 100%.  If they spend a normal amount of payroll, they could’ve had JT last year solving the catching problem AND Marte solving the CF problem AND still would have all those prospects and what we still have in order to make other moves to shore up the other areas of need.   Instead we have more holes to fill that clearly aren’t getting filled by money, and there are only so many prospects to go around without emptying the farm completely.

 

10 minutes ago, Erick said:

According to rumors, they wanted Marte back and he decided to sign in NY. 

As for the Giants, my point is no one expected that last year. Not even close.

They could have resigned them way before free agency.   And they could have gotten him in free agency if they had put forth a decent offer to begin with and not some lowball garbage to try to get him to sign for cheap. From what we heard, their final offer to him wasn’t that far off from his Mets deal, but he was likely already insulted by the lowball deals AND it came so late that he was ready to go elsewhere.  Present that offer earlier and he probably re-signs.

Just now, rmc523 said:

This is a moving goal post though

Yeah, there are some fans out there who will be ok with moving the goal posts forever. Bruce Sherman loves those guys.

Just now, Erick said:

Ok but you then have to analyze if it would’ve been worth it to bring him back.

Historically speaking, spending the money on an aging CF’er who relies on speed is not necessarily the best investment. 

This is a fair argument.

there was no excuse to go after JT though.  Especially for what he got.

When they didn't even attempt to sign JT, it was a sign of things to come.

I feel like the best bet right now is to buy low on Laureano. Have De La Cruz play CF for a month, and then Laureano should be back the beginning of May.

I don’t think Laureano is much worse than Reynolds, and he wouldn’t cost us as much in terms of prospects because of everything he’s dealt with off the field.

I’m not sure what Oakland’s bullpen situation is, but I wouldn’t mind adding another arm in the deal, as well.

2 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

When they didn't even attempt to sign JT, it was a sign of things to come.

I don’t think JT wanted to sign here at that point though. 

Of the Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto group, the only guy who actually genuinely seemed interested in the rebuild/being here long-term was Ozuna. He seemed to be the only one who didn’t have negative things to say after either.

I’m hoping we miss JT less this year now that we added Stallings. That should be interesting too to see how a defensive catcher like him can make our pitching staff even better. Jorge Alfaro was awful.

11 minutes ago, Erick said:

I don’t think JT wanted to sign here at that point though. 

Of the Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto group, the only guy who actually genuinely seemed interested in the rebuild/being here long-term was Ozuna. He seemed to be the only one who didn’t have negative things to say after either.

I’m hoping we miss JT less this year now that we added Stallings. That should be interesting too to see how a defensive catcher like him can make our pitching staff even better. Jorge Alfaro was awful.

Throw enough money this way and I’m sure he’d resign.

2 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Throw enough money this way and I’m sure he’d resign.

Or at least make an attempt and find out. They didn't try.

3 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Throw enough money this way and I’m sure he’d resign.

I also want to say he posted some stuff hinting at being open to the idea of returning - particularly when we made the playoffs. Again though, you offer the most money and odds are you'll get the guy you want. This is their job basically so they tend to go to who pays the most.