2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

The idea of either side not negotiating and try to come to an agreement is ridiculous, but then again we see that in politics all the time.

 

MLB not giving a counter proposal and demanding a mediator makes them look desperate, and you now the PA is going to hold out longer now because they know they have MLB in a bind now.

 

I just don't understand why both sides can't compromise and meet in the middle of what they both want so that each side gets some of what they want, but not all.

because the owners refuse to budge really one inch?  

5 hours ago, Michael said:

Good for the players.

 

Honestly if they wanted, if I understood correctly, the owners and players could agree to continue playing under the previous CBA until a new one gets completed. There's zero reason to miss even a single game.

Management would be all over that in less than one heartbeat. 

31 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Management would be all over that in less than one heartbeat. 

They should be, then. Hammer out the negotiations (better yet, START negotiating properly) during the season.

3 hours ago, Michael said:

They should be, then. Hammer out the negotiations (better yet, START negotiating properly) during the season.

ya but why would the players want that type of agreement?

they feel the owners have been negotiating in bad faith for a couple of years now (probably longer), why continue to play at the same terms as the recently expired CBA when you have no confidence/faith you will get anything close to what you are wanting?

Rumors are the revenue split is something like 58/42 for the owners.  Thats just fucking insane.  I dont blame the players for being fucking irate.

I think the NFL is around 48% for the players and NBA is somewhere around that (but might be 50% now).  

The owners not even attempting to make any counter proposals but to stand on their hard lines basically is stupid and just confirms how much of a fucking bunch of assholes they are.  

I hope players dig their heels in more honestly.   Blame ownership. 

8 hours ago, Das Texan said:

ya but why would the players want that type of agreement?

So they can at least play while things get sorted out. Then they can stretch out things a bit while not having to lose any pay for games not played.

Owners are "worried" the season won't start on time when they're the only reason it wouldn't, since this option is on the table. It's that meme of the guy on the bike who puts a stick in the front tire while he's riding then blames someone else.

1 hour ago, Michael said:

So they can at least play while things get sorted out. Then they can stretch out things a bit while not having to lose any pay for games not played.

Owners are "worried" the season won't start on time when they're the only reason it wouldn't, since this option is on the table. It's that meme of the guy on the bike who puts a stick in the front tire while he's riding then blames someone else.

Players do that and ownership has zero incentive to actually come to the table and just drag this thing out, even further.

Owners have been negotating in basically bad faith for a couple of years now, why are they all of a sudden going to wake up and say, ya the players are agreeing to play under the old system, but you know, lets go work on a new one now.

You'd be here in winter 2022 saying, well why dont players just play under the old agreement?

Guaranteed. 

 

MLBPA Drops Proposed Bonus Pool Allotment From $105MM To $100MM in February. 

MLB Raises Proposed Bonus Pool Allotment From $10MM To $15MM in March. 

MLBPA Drops Proposed Bonus Pool Allotment From $100MM To $95MM in April. 

MLB Raises Proposed Bonus Pool Allotment From $15MM To $20MM in May. 

MLBPA Drops Proposed Bonus Pool Allotment From $95MM To $90MM in June. 

MLB Raises Proposed Bonus Pool Allotment From $20MM To $25MM in July. 

MLBPA Drops Proposed Bonus Pool Allotment From $90MM To $85MM in August. 

MLB Raises Proposed Bonus Pool Allotment From $25MM To $30MM in September. 

MLBPA Drops Proposed Bonus Pool Allotment From $85MM To $80MM in October. 

Still far apart……

Edited February 9, 20224 yr by taiwanmarlin

2 hours ago, Das Texan said:

Players do that and ownership has zero incentive to actually come to the table and just drag this thing out, even further.

Owners have been negotating in basically bad faith for a couple of years now, why are they all of a sudden going to wake up and say, ya the players are agreeing to play under the old system, but you know, lets go work on a new one now.

You'd be here in winter 2022 saying, well why dont players just play under the old agreement?

Guaranteed. 

 

I am curious if they think they are going to lose their antitrust exemption soon and maybe that's making them dig in a little harder now to squeeze every last drop of value derived from that? Everyone seems to want a piece of them. Democrats want to go after their status so minor leaguers can get paid more and Republicans want to go after it purely for retaliation for MLB moving the the allstar game. Things have been pretty shitty politically for awhile now, but at some point this could become more of a priority. Or MLB pisses off the wrong person (this seems like the likely scenario).

This could be nothing as I know little about antitrust law, but I do know the legal basis for the supreme court case granting this status is flimsy at best and it could be done away with pretty quickly both congressionally or judicially if a real challenge is mounted. The NCAA has recently been kneecapped due to legal changes, so MLB may be reading the room and feel they are next. 

Anyways, I'd be interested in hearing an antitrust's attorney perspective on this one, as frankly, the owners do seem to be digging in a bit much here. Maybe it's just greed, but it's not like they are dumb and this could be defensive chess with an anticipated larger industry shift coming. Food for thought.

When can we get back to bitching about CF?

1 minute ago, MarlinsLou said:

When can we get back to bitching about CF?

Right now.

Why the hell didn't we just give Marte what he wanted?!

Its weird, its like the big market teams have no say in what is going on and the cheap assowners (Jerry Reinsdorf, Dick Monfort, et al) are running the asylum.  

 

I think its ownership thinking for some reason the players are just going to cave, that they are going to lose the PR war and everyone will side with the owenrs and they will get an even greater sweetheart deal than they got last CBA.

I'm not sure I get it.  

Onwers have been acting like little fucking bitches for a while now, their bad faith negotations have been so fucking bad with such a bad look.

 

I hope they do lose the anti trust exemption would serve those self righteous assholes  right. 

Why are the Marlins still rumored to be looking to spend on OF when the closest prospects (Bleday, Burdick) are OF?

You have Jesus Sanchez and A. Garcia. If they sign say Conforto or Schwarber, will Bleday and/or Burdick just be blocked from MLB ABs at that point?

I understand that the DH is likely, but we already have a potential logjam there with Aguilar, Cooper, L. Diaz, Wendle, etc.

Edited February 6, 20224 yr by jsprt14

41 minutes ago, jsprt14 said:

Why are the Marlins still rumored to be looking to spend on OF when the closest prospects (Bleday, Burdick) are OF?

You have Jesus Sanchez and A. Garcia. If they sign say Conforto or Schwarber, will Bleday and/or Burdick just be blocked from MLB ABs at that point?

I understand that the DH is likely, but we already have a potential logjam there with Aguilar, Cooper, L. Diaz, Wendle, etc.

Because prospects dont help you win in 2022.

On 2/5/2022 at 10:12 PM, Das Texan said:

Its weird, its like the big market teams have no say in what is going on and the cheap assowners (Jerry Reinsdorf, Dick Monfort, et al) are running the asylum.  

 

I think its ownership thinking for some reason the players are just going to cave, that they are going to lose the PR war and everyone will side with the owenrs and they will get an even greater sweetheart deal than they got last CBA.

I'm not sure I get it.  

Onwers have been acting like little fucking bitches for a while now, their bad faith negotations have been so fucking bad with such a bad look.

 

I hope they do lose the anti trust exemption would serve those self righteous assholes  right. 

Why do you care about this so much?

55 minutes ago, Entendu said:

Why do you care about this so much?

Because unlike ownership I actually care about the long term viability of baseball?

2 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Because unlike ownership I actually care about the long term viability of baseball?

Become an Owner gogogo.

(Also hire all of us thanks.)

18 hours ago, jsprt14 said:

Why are the Marlins still rumored to be looking to spend on OF when the closest prospects (Bleday, Burdick) are OF?

You have Jesus Sanchez and A. Garcia. If they sign say Conforto or Schwarber, will Bleday and/or Burdick just be blocked from MLB ABs at that point?

I understand that the DH is likely, but we already have a potential logjam there with Aguilar, Cooper, L. Diaz, Wendle, etc.

Aguilar won't be around after this year, and Wendle isn't a DH. He's a versatile-defender backup. Lewin likely isn't ready for 500+ PA right now. Which leaves if they sign one of those... plenty of PA for everyone assuming Garcia (or Conforto if he is the hypothetical acquisition) cover CF. That would have to be the scenario as crazy as that is defensively. Maybe we're all wrong on Garcia and they are right. Bleday and Burdick shouldn't really be ideas until they set the world on fire for 3 months in the minors. No one is blocking them in 2022 regardless of what they do. They could be in the minors all year and still be fine longterm. Good teams have depth like this, and the Marlins are truly on the verge of being a good team if they get the last 3-4 players right. That being said, I expect one of those two traded for a CF package (or something else).

The answer here is easy - get a longterm CF - and trust Cooper can be the primary DH for the first few months of the year. If he struggles or gets hurt again, some/all of Bleday/Burdick/Lewin/Jerar could become options this summer, as well as trade acquisitions. 

At this point, I think the best idea is trading Pablo and Bass for Brandon Marsh/Jared Kelenic type. Then acquiring Hicks/Keirmaier for outside top 25 prospects by absorbing salary. Then sign Rodon, Greinke, or some other SP to cover most of Pablo's innings and trust Luzardo/Elisier/Sixto/Cabrera/Meyer are going to throw 500 innings next year. Which I think they cumulatively can do. Bonus points for upgrading backup catcher, last hitter spot, or any reliever slot.

Stallings, Jackson/Fortes
Aguilar, Cooper
Jazz
Rojas, Wendle
Anderson
Sanchez
Marsh/Kelenic, Hicks/Keirmaier
Garcia
Last spot - DLC/Berti/Isan/Upgrade competition

Sandy, Rogers, Rodon/Greinke, Luzardo(Cabrera), Elisier(Sixto)
Bender, Floro, Cabrera, Sixto, Pop, Head
Bleier, Okert
(AAA - Meyer, Neidert, Holloway, Poteet, Garrett)

That would be a really nice team to open, with absolutely massive potential if any of Jazz, Sanchez, Marsh/Kelenic, Luzardo, Cabrera, or Sixto (with Bleday and Meyer coming) break out.

Let's get on with it.

 

56 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Because unlike ownership I actually care about the long term viability of baseball?

Truth - let's add in removing TV commercials (maybe let them run a 30-45 second one very quickly at end of half innings) except after third inning/seventh inning stretch they run larger ones. Ads interlayed on screen and on field/jerseys. Sponsor the bases themselves. Cut 30 minutes off game times and get guys pitching faster. Long term viability needs to be addressed in all aspects.

1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

Aguilar won't be around after this year, and Wendle isn't a DH. He's a versatile-defender backup. Lewin likely isn't ready for 500+ PA right now. Which leaves if they sign one of those... plenty of PA for everyone assuming Garcia (or Conforto if he is the hypothetical acquisition) cover CF. That would have to be the scenario as crazy as that is defensively. Maybe we're all wrong on Garcia and they are right. Bleday and Burdick shouldn't really be ideas until they set the world on fire for 3 months in the minors. No one is blocking them in 2022 regardless of what they do. They could be in the minors all year and still be fine longterm. Good teams have depth like this, and the Marlins are truly on the verge of being a good team if they get the last 3-4 players right. That being said, I expect one of those two traded for a CF package (or something else).

The answer here is easy - get a longterm CF - and trust Cooper can be the primary DH for the first few months of the year. If he struggles or gets hurt again, some/all of Bleday/Burdick/Lewin/Jerar could become options this summer, as well as trade acquisitions. 

At this point, I think the best idea is trading Pablo and Bass for Brandon Marsh/Jared Kelenic type. Then acquiring Hicks/Keirmaier for outside top 25 prospects by absorbing salary. Then sign Rodon, Greinke, or some other SP to cover most of Pablo's innings and trust Luzardo/Elisier/Sixto/Cabrera/Meyer are going to throw 500 innings next year. Which I think they cumulatively can do. Bonus points for upgrading backup catcher, last hitter spot, or any reliever slot.

Stallings, Jackson/Fortes
Aguilar, Cooper
Jazz
Rojas, Wendle
Anderson
Sanchez
Marsh/Kelenic, Hicks/Keirmaier
Garcia
Last spot - DLC/Berti/Isan/Upgrade competition

Sandy, Rogers, Rodon/Greinke, Luzardo(Cabrera), Elisier(Sixto)
Bender, Floro, Cabrera, Sixto, Pop, Head
Bleier, Okert
(AAA - Meyer, Neidert, Holloway, Poteet, Garrett)

That would be a really nice team to open, with absolutely massive potential if any of Jazz, Sanchez, Marsh/Kelenic, Luzardo, Cabrera, or Sixto (with Bleday and Meyer coming) break out.

Let's get on with it.

 

No Reynolds/Ketel/Mullins or Castellanos/Schwarber/Conforto ?

Edited February 7, 20224 yr by taiwanmarlin

22 hours ago, jsprt14 said:

Why are the Marlins still rumored to be looking to spend on OF when the closest prospects (Bleday, Burdick) are OF?

You have Jesus Sanchez and A. Garcia. If they sign say Conforto or Schwarber, will Bleday and/or Burdick just be blocked from MLB ABs at that point?

I understand that the DH is likely, but we already have a potential logjam there with Aguilar, Cooper, L. Diaz, Wendle, etc.

They want to actually make a (half) push and those guys aren’t ready, thus they want to go this route   They can always trade later

 

3 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

Aguilar won't be around after this year, and Wendle isn't a DH. He's a versatile-defender backup. Lewin likely isn't ready for 500+ PA right now. Which leaves if they sign one of those... plenty of PA for everyone assuming Garcia (or Conforto if he is the hypothetical acquisition) cover CF. That would have to be the scenario as crazy as that is defensively. Maybe we're all wrong on Garcia and they are right. Bleday and Burdick shouldn't really be ideas until they set the world on fire for 3 months in the minors. No one is blocking them in 2022 regardless of what they do. They could be in the minors all year and still be fine longterm. Good teams have depth like this, and the Marlins are truly on the verge of being a good team if they get the last 3-4 players right. That being said, I expect one of those two traded for a CF package (or something else).

The answer here is easy - get a longterm CF - and trust Cooper can be the primary DH for the first few months of the year. If he struggles or gets hurt again, some/all of Bleday/Burdick/Lewin/Jerar could become options this summer, as well as trade acquisitions. 

At this point, I think the best idea is trading Pablo and Bass for Brandon Marsh/Jared Kelenic type. Then acquiring Hicks/Keirmaier for outside top 25 prospects by absorbing salary. Then sign Rodon, Greinke, or some other SP to cover most of Pablo's innings and trust Luzardo/Elisier/Sixto/Cabrera/Meyer are going to throw 500 innings next year. Which I think they cumulatively can do. Bonus points for upgrading backup catcher, last hitter spot, or any reliever slot.

Stallings, Jackson/Fortes
Aguilar, Cooper
Jazz
Rojas, Wendle
Anderson
Sanchez
Marsh/Kelenic, Hicks/Keirmaier
Garcia
Last spot - DLC/Berti/Isan/Upgrade competition

Sandy, Rogers, Rodon/Greinke, Luzardo(Cabrera), Elisier(Sixto)
Bender, Floro, Cabrera, Sixto, Pop, Head
Bleier, Okert
(AAA - Meyer, Neidert, Holloway, Poteet, Garrett)

That would be a really nice team to open, with absolutely massive potential if any of Jazz, Sanchez, Marsh/Kelenic, Luzardo, Cabrera, or Sixto (with Bleday and Meyer coming) break out.

Let's get on with it.

 

Im ok with this approach.

 

id still love a big Bryant/Correa addition on top of that but I know it’s not happening.

 

Either way, in my opinion it is absolutely critical to sign a vet guy to absorb the innings lost by Pablo.  Every year we get hit with an injury and the stretch where we need starters despite the system depth and fall apart, yet every year they neglect to get that good vet guy, and instead try a scrap heap one that doesn’t work out.

 

2 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

No Reynolds/Ketel/Mullins or Castellanos/Schwarber/Conforto ?

I’m that scenario he was getting Marsh and a backup in Kiermeir.  No room for those others.

 

 

4 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

No Reynolds/Ketel/Mullins or Castellanos/Schwarber/Conforto ?

If someone has to be traded, but would we all rather do:

Pablo, (3 years of control) and be able to attach deadweight money of Bass to him, along with outside top 15-20 prospects as kickers

or

Lose two of Eury, Watson, Meyer, and Cabrera, and likely at least one 6-15 ranked guy like Salas, Fulton, Bleday, Burdick, Morisette, I. Lewis, etc.

 

I'm ok with either if Ketel or Reynolds comes for a prospect haul, but considering the organizational depth and some really big upside, I think you trade Pablo and sign an arm (a good one, Rodon/Greinke level. A win now move). Keep the prospects and use at the deadline or save.

17 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

Keep the prospects and use at the deadline or save.

With unproven players like Marsh and Kelenic in the lineup, maybe we would be sellers in the deadline. 

1 hour ago, taiwanmarlin said:

With unproven players like Marsh and Kelenic in the lineup, maybe we would be sellers in the deadline. 

Which is why the smartest thing to do (absent a Ketel type trade) is get Keirmaier/Hicks for a high floor defender, and then match them with a longterm prospect to ease them in. Get a floor and a ceiling.

1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

Which is why the smartest thing to do (absent a Ketel type trade) is get Keirmaier/Hicks for a high floor defender, and then match them with a longterm prospect to ease them in. Get a floor and a ceiling.

Are the corner outfielders the windows and walls in this scenario?

2 hours ago, Michael said:

Are the corner outfielders the windows and walls in this scenario?

We already have the balls for the sweat to drop down. Skeet Skeet

On 2/7/2022 at 2:13 PM, MarlinsLou said:

If someone has to be traded, but would we all rather do:

Pablo, (3 years of control) and be able to attach deadweight money of Bass to him, along with outside top 15-20 prospects as kickers

or

Lose two of Eury, Watson, Meyer, and Cabrera, and likely at least one 6-15 ranked guy like Salas, Fulton, Bleday, Burdick, Morisette, I. Lewis, etc.

 

I'm ok with either if Ketel or Reynolds comes for a prospect haul, but considering the organizational depth and some really big upside, I think you trade Pablo and sign an arm (a good one, Rodon/Greinke level. A win now move). Keep the prospects and use at the deadline or save.

Would trade Pablo all day before any of those prospects..