Rydawg Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 22 hours ago, Piazza31 said: Legit, wonder what it would take for the Marlins to trade for Giancarlo Stanton and some Cash from the Yankees. They want to sign Judge, and need to clear some salary. Send him back to Miami for Rojas and a few prospects. Heck, maybe even a big time prospect like Sixto for more cash. Fuck that! We can give them Devers back. I'm sure we can sign Guzman again and send him back also! LOL Seriously, not against bringing Stanon back to DH. He's going to end up hitting over 600 HR and go to the HOF. Might as well do it in a Marlins uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 12 minutes ago, Rydawg said: Fuck that! We can give them Devers back. I'm sure we can sign Guzman again and send him back also! LOL Seriously, not against bringing Stanon back to DH. He's going to end up hitting over 600 HR and go to the HOF. Might as well do it in a Marlins uniform. Devers was starting to come on before he got injured. Is he still injured??!??? What happened to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 8 minutes ago, hovertical said: Devers was starting to come on before he got injured. Is he still injured??!??? What happened to him. He's about to start 9th grade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydawg Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, hovertical said: Devers was starting to come on before he got injured. Is he still injured??!??? What happened to him. He's hitting about .190 in AA Pensacola. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, Rydawg said: He's hitting about .190 in AA Pensacola. so why isn't he up with the team considering he's a perfect fit? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Rydawg said: Fuck that! We can give them Devers back. I'm sure we can sign Guzman again and send him back also! LOL Seriously, not against bringing Stanon back to DH. He's going to end up hitting over 600 HR and go to the HOF. Might as well do it in a Marlins uniform. The Yankees are not going to let Judge get away so they're probably going to be looking to clear as much salary as they can so Stanton would be the most obvious choice to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk613 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 hour ago, hovertical said: The Yankees are not going to let Judge get away so they're probably going to be looking to clear as much salary as they can so Stanton would be the most obvious choice to go. Would luv to bring Stanton back but not for what they’ll probably want back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 2 hours ago, hovertical said: The Yankees are not going to let Judge get away so they're probably going to be looking to clear as much salary as they can so Stanton would be the most obvious choice to go. They are going to be faced with paying an extra 10-15 mil next year for Judge. They are the Yankees. They arent dumping salary of a productive player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 13 hours ago, mk613 said: Would luv to bring Stanton back but not for what they’ll probably want back Stanton probably has negative $50-70m in value right now. Let's call it negative $60m. Soler and Garcia aren't even that much. Those guys are probably negative $20m+. Less if Soler opts out also. So a straight swap of Stanton for Garcia/Soler is probably negative $40m in value for the Marlins, as well as they have now ABSORBED $70 million in payroll. That is not good. If this were to work, the Marlins would need like Peraza, Pereira, Sweeney, and O. Cabrera in their system. So it's a 5-2 trade of Stanton + 4 prospects, for Garcia and Soler straight up. No money exchanged. The benefit to the Yankees is saving $70m dollars and they can live without those prospects as none of them are Volpe/Dominguez. Peraza would be the team's longterm SS with star potential, and the other guys could emerge as starters or highly desirable platoon/bench options. Are the prospects and Stanton worth $70m versus Garica/Soler and having that money? I bet the Yankees would be very interested in saving $70m.... because Garcia/Soler then make effectively 5/$60 for them and maybe they then eat half those contracts to send out to someone else so the Yankees could create $100m+ in savings for themselves doing this.... for the cost of call it 1 premium, 2 good, and 3-4 alright prospects (some used to dump Garcia/Soler). And the premium prospect is blocked by Volpe theoretically. Plus losing Stanton which I think we all agree they probably don't care about. Maybe they get Cooper back in this also, or Bleier (dumps more money for Miami). Those guys don't worry and would be cheap for NYY for a season. So for the Marlins, effectively this would be as a roundball: 2023-2027 - $32-35m per year Stanton, Peraza (starting SS), and various bench/platoon options with upside for more. I think this works as 23/24/25 you'd be bogged down with Garcia/Soler money ($27m in 23, $21 in 24, $12 in 25), so it's not "that" much more as we have to assume here we've adding the team's longterm starting SS in Peraza. So Stanton + YOUR SHORT STOP is costing you roughly $8, $14, and $23m more per year than what you have now.... This wouldn't hurt for 2 seasons until 2025, and then if Peraza and the other prospects are good in 2025, the added payroll for Stanton may make it worth it for sure. If anything, you've eliminated some concerns with 2023/2024 and punted some money to 25-27 and you hedge that with the Yankees prospects. Frankly, if Peraza is a long time SS starter and you get some good CC bench options with the other guys, this is probably worth it. Peraza alone could make up the surplus value if he is good. 2028 - $10m Stanton buyout + Peraza is theoretically in year 3 arbitration and maybe the other guys have worked out and are in first year arbitration. Still a lot of player control here, but the costs have rapidly dropped as Stanton is now off the books. I think this is outside the Marlins pay-zone for sure don't get me wrong, but this is an interesting thought experiment *IF* the Yankees would take Garcia and Soler, and they put at least one FV50, and two FV45+/45 prospects on the table. The Marlins would get HR 500 health permitting, and perhaps, their first legitimate HOF as Stanton has an outside chance at another 10-12+ WAR so he can get into the Jim Rice/Andrew Dawson comps. However, if Bruce is going to "spend" $70m, it probably is a BIT easier to dump Garcia/Soler elsewhere even if eating a lot of the contract, and just spend the $70m+ savings on something better. Which should be a good player versus hoping prospects work out. So long story short, A LOT of Yankees prospects they love must come back, and/or the Yankees must eat A LOT of payroll in addition to Garcia and Soler, or it's tough to envision a Stanton deal. This would be a complicated one, but hey, so was Hampton/Piazza's Marlins tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 14 hours ago, MarlinsLou said: Stanton probably has negative $50-70m in value right now. Let's call it negative $60m. Soler and Garcia aren't even that much. Those guys are probably negative $20m+. Less if Soler opts out also. So a straight swap of Stanton for Garcia/Soler is probably negative $40m in value for the Marlins, as well as they have now ABSORBED $70 million in payroll. That is not good. If this were to work, the Marlins would need like Peraza, Pereira, Sweeney, and O. Cabrera in their system. So it's a 5-2 trade of Stanton + 4 prospects, for Garcia and Soler straight up. No money exchanged. The benefit to the Yankees is saving $70m dollars and they can live without those prospects as none of them are Volpe/Dominguez. Peraza would be the team's longterm SS with star potential, and the other guys could emerge as starters or highly desirable platoon/bench options. Are the prospects and Stanton worth $70m versus Garica/Soler and having that money? I bet the Yankees would be very interested in saving $70m.... because Garcia/Soler then make effectively 5/$60 for them and maybe they then eat half those contracts to send out to someone else so the Yankees could create $100m+ in savings for themselves doing this.... for the cost of call it 1 premium, 2 good, and 3-4 alright prospects (some used to dump Garcia/Soler). And the premium prospect is blocked by Volpe theoretically. Plus losing Stanton which I think we all agree they probably don't care about. Maybe they get Cooper back in this also, or Bleier (dumps more money for Miami). Those guys don't worry and would be cheap for NYY for a season. So for the Marlins, effectively this would be as a roundball: 2023-2027 - $32-35m per year Stanton, Peraza (starting SS), and various bench/platoon options with upside for more. I think this works as 23/24/25 you'd be bogged down with Garcia/Soler money ($27m in 23, $21 in 24, $12 in 25), so it's not "that" much more as we have to assume here we've adding the team's longterm starting SS in Peraza. So Stanton + YOUR SHORT STOP is costing you roughly $8, $14, and $23m more per year than what you have now.... This wouldn't hurt for 2 seasons until 2025, and then if Peraza and the other prospects are good in 2025, the added payroll for Stanton may make it worth it for sure. If anything, you've eliminated some concerns with 2023/2024 and punted some money to 25-27 and you hedge that with the Yankees prospects. Frankly, if Peraza is a long time SS starter and you get some good CC bench options with the other guys, this is probably worth it. Peraza alone could make up the surplus value if he is good. 2028 - $10m Stanton buyout + Peraza is theoretically in year 3 arbitration and maybe the other guys have worked out and are in first year arbitration. Still a lot of player control here, but the costs have rapidly dropped as Stanton is now off the books. I think this is outside the Marlins pay-zone for sure don't get me wrong, but this is an interesting thought experiment *IF* the Yankees would take Garcia and Soler, and they put at least one FV50, and two FV45+/45 prospects on the table. The Marlins would get HR 500 health permitting, and perhaps, their first legitimate HOF as Stanton has an outside chance at another 10-12+ WAR so he can get into the Jim Rice/Andrew Dawson comps. However, if Bruce is going to "spend" $70m, it probably is a BIT easier to dump Garcia/Soler elsewhere even if eating a lot of the contract, and just spend the $70m+ savings on something better. Which should be a good player versus hoping prospects work out. So long story short, A LOT of Yankees prospects they love must come back, and/or the Yankees must eat A LOT of payroll in addition to Garcia and Soler, or it's tough to envision a Stanton deal. This would be a complicated one, but hey, so was Hampton/Piazza's Marlins tenure. I think we would definitely have to send more than Avisail/Soler to make this happen. Yankee fans would riot if they traded Stanton + prospects for two guys who have been awful this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaiwanMarlins Posted August 5, 2022 Author Share Posted August 5, 2022 Marlins ballpark would have a full house if Big G comes back, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 2 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said: Marlins ballpark would have a full house if Big G comes back, lol. Maybe for the first game and even that is just a maybe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFishFan Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, SonOfJack said: Maybe for the first game and even that is just a maybe. And 50% of the reason for the full house would be because it’s opening day 2023, and that game is usually pretty full anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 6 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said: Marlins ballpark would have a full house if Big G comes back, lol. Frisaro would be highly pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 9 hours ago, Erick said: I think we would definitely have to send more than Avisail/Soler to make this happen. Yankee fans would riot if they traded Stanton + prospects for two guys who have been awful this year. Marlins owe Garcia, Soler, and Stanton (deferred, thanks Jeff!) $90m for 2023-beyond. Would you trade Garcia, Soler, Stanton contract, Salas, Lewis, Fulton, J. Miller, and A. Santos for $1 cash considerations. In a vacuum, the surplus value calculation works out and maybe some team will bank on Garcia/Soler rebounding to 2021/2019, and you have 5 good dart throws. Marlins could get KILLED in this deal, but $90m dollars in hand may be worth.... and then get rid of Cooper, Anderson, Rojas, Floro, and Berti which would shed $20m off 2023 dollars, and oh wow we have $110m in "new" money to spend and how much budget did Bruce up the next few years? Even if that's only he goes to "85m" in pencil 2023-2024.... there is now $130m to play with and what does Swanson/Nimmo want? They probably max out on a Baez/Story contract so you now fit them into Bruce's pile of shit payroll short and longterm. That team can easily be filled out Fortes, Stallings, Lewin, Jazz, Wendle, Groshans, Williams, Bleday, Sanchez, Burdick, and Swanson/Nimmo, and you just need two bats likely a backup/platoon SS/CF and 1B/DH (with Berry on the way!). Notably you STILL have the pitching to trade here which is why this could work. Or you just made Bruce $90m and Kim gets herself a raise for being so brilliant to save Bruce even more money, (despite causing most of the deficit with Garcia/Soler.....). Practically, no one would would likely do this as it's too massive of a trade, but frankly, this is the type of things THE MARLINS should be thinking about in reverse at smaller scale. That's what I was getting at here. The payrolls Bruce is setting are crap and you're not going to get an impact player, so if you only have say, a 3-4/$48 contract to be able to be extended this offseason (I assume this is probably the max in the Bruce budget), why not absorb $48 million in literally shit contracts? I'm just saying, one of the best moves the organization ever did was pay Mike Hampton to pitch elsewhere. Maybe the front office should show some vision/think outside the box and literally buy prospects with this money versus a stopgap free agent. Here's a real world example. Padres still owe Hosmer 3/$36.5 2023-2025. They ate that to get Soto. They also owe Robert Suarez $5m in 2023. Send Padres cash for Hosmer as it is owed, take Suarez off hands, send them Stallings (clears another $2.5+ and gives them a catcher option), and take Campusano, and 2-3 FV40 guys. The bet is, Campusano and the prospects outweigh whatever "ordinary $10-15+m" player they would be able to sign. Marlins eat $38+m to find out, and Padres get Stallings and $38m to go for it with Soto. Wouldn't we all take that bet on Campusano and prospects versus just signing a 33 year old Anthony Rizzo? I mean I like Rizzo and he's still good, but if Campusano can catch 60 games a year and DH the rest to a 2+ WAR over 6 years (and his upside is much higher), you've won big time. Not saying this is the right move/trade at all, but I am just positing creativity is needed and it may be smart to take on some shit for some prospects, versus spending money on second class free agents. San Diego has been a good one for years (prior to this Myers) to try and take on salary dumps for prospects, and now they really need money as its pedal to the metal with Soto. I'd at least explore. And I'd hope the FO does this offseason as this would show some real vision IMO. Just saying. A lot needs to go right for the Marlins to contend and some risks will have to be made. Or it's this endless cycle of treading water until payroll goes up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 7 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said: Marlins ballpark would have a full house if Big G comes back, lol. 5 hours ago, SonOfJack said: Maybe for the first game and even that is just a maybe. Opening Day 2012 was, I think, the only sellout game that Stanton was part of with the Marlins. Stanton was chasing 60 homers in 2017 and people still weren't coming out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Michael said: Opening Day 2012 was, I think, the only sellout game that Stanton was part of with the Marlins. Stanton was chasing 60 homers in 2017 and people still weren't coming out. Man, that August was something else to watch (I think it was August that he just went apeshit?). I was glued to the games because he was hitting everything on the nose for a full month. That might be the absolute hottest I've ever seen a ballplayer get. It was really something else to see and I get shivers just thinking about how utterly amazing he was that month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 15 minutes ago, hovertical said: Man, that August was something else to watch (I think it was August that he just went apeshit?). I was glued to the games because he was hitting everything on the nose for a full month. That might be the absolute hottest I've ever seen a ballplayer get. It was really something else to see and I get shivers just thinking about how utterly amazing he was that month. Yeah, August. I likened it to many many years ago when I was just watching highlights of guys hitting homers and it was like that, playing out in real time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 2 hours ago, MarlinsLou said: Marlins owe Garcia, Soler, and Stanton (deferred, thanks Jeff!) $90m for 2023-beyond. Would you trade Garcia, Soler, Stanton contract, Salas, Lewis, Fulton, J. Miller, and A. Santos for $1 cash considerations. In a vacuum, the surplus value calculation works out and maybe some team will bank on Garcia/Soler rebounding to 2021/2019, and you have 5 good dart throws. Marlins could get KILLED in this deal, but $90m dollars in hand may be worth.... and then get rid of Cooper, Anderson, Rojas, Floro, and Berti which would shed $20m off 2023 dollars, and oh wow we have $110m in "new" money to spend and how much budget did Bruce up the next few years? Even if that's only he goes to "85m" in pencil 2023-2024.... there is now $130m to play with and what does Swanson/Nimmo want? They probably max out on a Baez/Story contract so you now fit them into Bruce's pile of shit payroll short and longterm. That team can easily be filled out Fortes, Stallings, Lewin, Jazz, Wendle, Groshans, Williams, Bleday, Sanchez, Burdick, and Swanson/Nimmo, and you just need two bats likely a backup/platoon SS/CF and 1B/DH (with Berry on the way!). Notably you STILL have the pitching to trade here which is why this could work. Or you just made Bruce $90m and Kim gets herself a raise for being so brilliant to save Bruce even more money, (despite causing most of the deficit with Garcia/Soler.....). Practically, no one would would likely do this as it's too massive of a trade, but frankly, this is the type of things THE MARLINS should be thinking about in reverse at smaller scale. That's what I was getting at here. The payrolls Bruce is setting are crap and you're not going to get an impact player, so if you only have say, a 3-4/$48 contract to be able to be extended this offseason (I assume this is probably the max in the Bruce budget), why not absorb $48 million in literally shit contracts? I'm just saying, one of the best moves the organization ever did was pay Mike Hampton to pitch elsewhere. Maybe the front office should show some vision/think outside the box and literally buy prospects with this money versus a stopgap free agent. Here's a real world example. Padres still owe Hosmer 3/$36.5 2023-2025. They ate that to get Soto. They also owe Robert Suarez $5m in 2023. Send Padres cash for Hosmer as it is owed, take Suarez off hands, send them Stallings (clears another $2.5+ and gives them a catcher option), and take Campusano, and 2-3 FV40 guys. The bet is, Campusano and the prospects outweigh whatever "ordinary $10-15+m" player they would be able to sign. Marlins eat $38+m to find out, and Padres get Stallings and $38m to go for it with Soto. Wouldn't we all take that bet on Campusano and prospects versus just signing a 33 year old Anthony Rizzo? I mean I like Rizzo and he's still good, but if Campusano can catch 60 games a year and DH the rest to a 2+ WAR over 6 years (and his upside is much higher), you've won big time. Not saying this is the right move/trade at all, but I am just positing creativity is needed and it may be smart to take on some shit for some prospects, versus spending money on second class free agents. San Diego has been a good one for years (prior to this Myers) to try and take on salary dumps for prospects, and now they really need money as its pedal to the metal with Soto. I'd at least explore. And I'd hope the FO does this offseason as this would show some real vision IMO. Just saying. A lot needs to go right for the Marlins to contend and some risks will have to be made. Or it's this endless cycle of treading water until payroll goes up. So you want to trade several guys for money that won't be spent....eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 minute ago, rmc523 said: So you want to trade several guys for money that won't be spent....eh. It doesn't remotely say that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaiwanMarlins Posted August 6, 2022 Author Share Posted August 6, 2022 Sign or trade, this team needs to acquire top five available hitters in the next off-season. It's a tragedy if you have the best pitching and the worst hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaiwanMarlins Posted August 7, 2022 Author Share Posted August 7, 2022 Bruce Sherman hates be called as cheap fat ass but he more hates to lose money, so he's OK be called as cheap fat ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMarlinsProject Posted August 7, 2022 Share Posted August 7, 2022 We just extended a 35 year old dead arm pitcher for two years even though we have about 20 better younger pitchers. Why, just why? Must have been his 1.6 WHIP that convinced us or was it his 4.8k's per 9ip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted August 7, 2022 Share Posted August 7, 2022 3 hours ago, TheMarlinsProject said: We just extended a 35 year old dead arm pitcher for two years even though we have about 20 better younger pitchers. Why, just why? Must have been his 1.6 WHIP that convinced us or was it his 4.8k's per 9ip? Who got the extension? I don't see anything online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 7, 2022 Share Posted August 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, hovertical said: Who got the extension? I don't see anything online. Think he means Bleier but that was in the offseason. Unsure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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