Jump to content

2023 Lineup


Recommended Posts

22 hours ago, Piazza31 said:

Legit, wonder what it would take for the Marlins to trade for Giancarlo Stanton and some Cash from the Yankees.

They want to sign Judge, and need to clear some salary. Send him back to Miami for Rojas and a few prospects. Heck, maybe even a big time prospect like Sixto for more cash.

Fuck that!  We can give them Devers back.  I'm sure we can sign Guzman again and send him back also!  LOL

Seriously, not against bringing Stanon back to DH.  He's going to end up hitting over 600 HR and go to the HOF.  Might as well do it in a Marlins uniform.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Rydawg said:

Fuck that!  We can give them Devers back.  I'm sure we can sign Guzman again and send him back also!  LOL

Seriously, not against bringing Stanon back to DH.  He's going to end up hitting over 600 HR and go to the HOF.  Might as well do it in a Marlins uniform.

Devers was starting to come on before he got injured. Is he still injured??!???  What happened to him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Rydawg said:

Fuck that!  We can give them Devers back.  I'm sure we can sign Guzman again and send him back also!  LOL

Seriously, not against bringing Stanon back to DH.  He's going to end up hitting over 600 HR and go to the HOF.  Might as well do it in a Marlins uniform.

The Yankees are not going to let Judge get away so they're probably going to be looking to clear as much salary as they can so Stanton would be the most obvious choice to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hovertical said:

The Yankees are not going to let Judge get away so they're probably going to be looking to clear as much salary as they can so Stanton would be the most obvious choice to go.

Would luv to bring Stanton back but not for what they’ll probably want back

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, hovertical said:

The Yankees are not going to let Judge get away so they're probably going to be looking to clear as much salary as they can so Stanton would be the most obvious choice to go.

They are going to be faced with paying an extra 10-15 mil next year for Judge.

They are the Yankees.  

They arent dumping salary of a productive player. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, mk613 said:

Would luv to bring Stanton back but not for what they’ll probably want back

Stanton probably has negative $50-70m in value right now. Let's call it negative $60m.

Soler and Garcia aren't even that much. Those guys are probably negative $20m+. Less if Soler opts out also.

So a straight swap of Stanton for Garcia/Soler is probably negative $40m in value for the Marlins, as well as they have now ABSORBED $70 million in payroll. That is not good.

If this were to work, the Marlins would need like Peraza, Pereira, Sweeney, and O. Cabrera in their system. So it's a 5-2 trade of Stanton + 4 prospects, for Garcia and Soler straight up. No money exchanged. The benefit to the Yankees is saving $70m dollars and they can live without those prospects as none of them are Volpe/Dominguez. Peraza would be the team's longterm SS with star potential, and the other guys could emerge as starters or highly desirable platoon/bench options.

Are the prospects and Stanton worth $70m versus Garica/Soler and having that money? I bet the Yankees would be very interested in saving $70m.... because Garcia/Soler then make effectively 5/$60 for them and maybe they then eat half those contracts to send out to someone else so the Yankees could create $100m+ in savings for themselves doing this.... for the cost of call it 1 premium, 2 good, and 3-4 alright prospects (some used to dump Garcia/Soler). And the premium prospect is blocked by Volpe theoretically. Plus losing Stanton which I think we all agree they probably don't care about. Maybe they get Cooper back in this also, or Bleier (dumps more money for Miami). Those guys don't worry and would be cheap for NYY for a season.

So for the Marlins, effectively this would be as a roundball:

2023-2027 - $32-35m per year Stanton, Peraza (starting SS), and various bench/platoon options with upside for more. I think this works as 23/24/25 you'd be bogged down with Garcia/Soler money ($27m in 23, $21 in 24, $12 in 25), so it's not "that" much more as we have to assume here we've adding the team's longterm starting SS in Peraza. So Stanton + YOUR SHORT STOP is costing you roughly $8, $14, and $23m more per year than what you have now.... This wouldn't hurt for 2 seasons until 2025, and then if Peraza and the other prospects are good in 2025, the added payroll for Stanton may make it worth it for sure. If anything, you've eliminated some concerns with 2023/2024 and punted some money to 25-27 and you hedge that with the Yankees prospects. Frankly, if Peraza is a long time SS starter and you get some good CC bench options with the other guys, this is probably worth it. Peraza alone could make up the surplus value if he is good.

2028 - $10m Stanton buyout + Peraza is theoretically in year 3 arbitration and maybe the other guys have worked out and are in first year arbitration. Still a lot of player control here, but the costs have rapidly dropped as Stanton is now off the books.

 

I think this is outside the Marlins pay-zone for sure don't get me wrong, but this is an interesting thought experiment *IF* the Yankees would take Garcia and Soler, and they put at least one FV50, and two FV45+/45 prospects on the table. The Marlins would get HR 500 health permitting, and perhaps, their first legitimate HOF as Stanton has an outside chance at another 10-12+ WAR so he can get into the Jim Rice/Andrew Dawson comps. 

However, if Bruce is going to "spend" $70m, it probably is a BIT easier to dump Garcia/Soler elsewhere even if eating a lot of the contract, and just spend the $70m+ savings on something better. Which should be a good player versus hoping prospects work out. So long story short, A LOT of Yankees prospects they love must come back, and/or the Yankees must eat A LOT of payroll in addition to Garcia and Soler, or it's tough to envision a Stanton deal. This would be a complicated one, but hey, so was Hampton/Piazza's Marlins tenure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

Stanton probably has negative $50-70m in value right now. Let's call it negative $60m.

Soler and Garcia aren't even that much. Those guys are probably negative $20m+. Less if Soler opts out also.

So a straight swap of Stanton for Garcia/Soler is probably negative $40m in value for the Marlins, as well as they have now ABSORBED $70 million in payroll. That is not good.

If this were to work, the Marlins would need like Peraza, Pereira, Sweeney, and O. Cabrera in their system. So it's a 5-2 trade of Stanton + 4 prospects, for Garcia and Soler straight up. No money exchanged. The benefit to the Yankees is saving $70m dollars and they can live without those prospects as none of them are Volpe/Dominguez. Peraza would be the team's longterm SS with star potential, and the other guys could emerge as starters or highly desirable platoon/bench options.

Are the prospects and Stanton worth $70m versus Garica/Soler and having that money? I bet the Yankees would be very interested in saving $70m.... because Garcia/Soler then make effectively 5/$60 for them and maybe they then eat half those contracts to send out to someone else so the Yankees could create $100m+ in savings for themselves doing this.... for the cost of call it 1 premium, 2 good, and 3-4 alright prospects (some used to dump Garcia/Soler). And the premium prospect is blocked by Volpe theoretically. Plus losing Stanton which I think we all agree they probably don't care about. Maybe they get Cooper back in this also, or Bleier (dumps more money for Miami). Those guys don't worry and would be cheap for NYY for a season.

So for the Marlins, effectively this would be as a roundball:

2023-2027 - $32-35m per year Stanton, Peraza (starting SS), and various bench/platoon options with upside for more. I think this works as 23/24/25 you'd be bogged down with Garcia/Soler money ($27m in 23, $21 in 24, $12 in 25), so it's not "that" much more as we have to assume here we've adding the team's longterm starting SS in Peraza. So Stanton + YOUR SHORT STOP is costing you roughly $8, $14, and $23m more per year than what you have now.... This wouldn't hurt for 2 seasons until 2025, and then if Peraza and the other prospects are good in 2025, the added payroll for Stanton may make it worth it for sure. If anything, you've eliminated some concerns with 2023/2024 and punted some money to 25-27 and you hedge that with the Yankees prospects. Frankly, if Peraza is a long time SS starter and you get some good CC bench options with the other guys, this is probably worth it. Peraza alone could make up the surplus value if he is good.

2028 - $10m Stanton buyout + Peraza is theoretically in year 3 arbitration and maybe the other guys have worked out and are in first year arbitration. Still a lot of player control here, but the costs have rapidly dropped as Stanton is now off the books.

 

I think this is outside the Marlins pay-zone for sure don't get me wrong, but this is an interesting thought experiment *IF* the Yankees would take Garcia and Soler, and they put at least one FV50, and two FV45+/45 prospects on the table. The Marlins would get HR 500 health permitting, and perhaps, their first legitimate HOF as Stanton has an outside chance at another 10-12+ WAR so he can get into the Jim Rice/Andrew Dawson comps. 

However, if Bruce is going to "spend" $70m, it probably is a BIT easier to dump Garcia/Soler elsewhere even if eating a lot of the contract, and just spend the $70m+ savings on something better. Which should be a good player versus hoping prospects work out. So long story short, A LOT of Yankees prospects they love must come back, and/or the Yankees must eat A LOT of payroll in addition to Garcia and Soler, or it's tough to envision a Stanton deal. This would be a complicated one, but hey, so was Hampton/Piazza's Marlins tenure.

I think we would definitely have to send more than Avisail/Soler to make this happen.

Yankee fans would riot if they traded Stanton + prospects for two guys who have been awful this year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Erick said:

I think we would definitely have to send more than Avisail/Soler to make this happen.

Yankee fans would riot if they traded Stanton + prospects for two guys who have been awful this year. 

Marlins owe Garcia, Soler, and Stanton (deferred, thanks Jeff!) $90m for 2023-beyond. Would you trade Garcia, Soler, Stanton contract, Salas, Lewis, Fulton, J. Miller, and A. Santos for $1 cash considerations. In a vacuum, the surplus value calculation works out and maybe some team will bank on Garcia/Soler rebounding to 2021/2019, and you have 5 good dart throws. Marlins could get KILLED in this deal, but $90m dollars in hand may be worth.... and then get rid of Cooper, Anderson, Rojas, Floro, and Berti which would shed $20m off 2023 dollars, and oh wow we have $110m in "new" money to spend and how much budget did Bruce up the next few years? Even if that's only he goes to "85m" in pencil 2023-2024.... there is now $130m to play with and what does Swanson/Nimmo want? They probably max out on a Baez/Story contract so you now fit them into Bruce's pile of shit payroll short and longterm. That team can easily be filled out Fortes, Stallings, Lewin, Jazz, Wendle, Groshans, Williams, Bleday, Sanchez, Burdick, and Swanson/Nimmo, and you just need two bats likely a backup/platoon SS/CF and 1B/DH (with Berry on the way!). Notably you STILL have the pitching to trade here which is why this could work. Or you just made Bruce $90m and Kim gets herself a raise for being so brilliant to save Bruce even more money, (despite causing most of the deficit with Garcia/Soler.....).

Practically, no one would would likely do this as it's too massive of a trade, but frankly, this is the type of things THE MARLINS should be thinking about in reverse at smaller scale. That's what I was getting at here. The payrolls Bruce is setting are crap and you're not going to get an impact player, so if you only have say, a 3-4/$48 contract to be able to be extended this offseason (I assume this is probably the max in the Bruce budget), why not absorb $48 million in literally shit contracts? I'm just saying, one of the best moves the organization ever did was pay Mike Hampton to pitch elsewhere. Maybe the front office should show some vision/think outside the box and literally buy prospects with this money versus a stopgap free agent.

Here's a real world example. Padres still owe Hosmer 3/$36.5 2023-2025. They ate that to get Soto. They also owe Robert Suarez $5m in 2023. Send Padres cash for Hosmer as it is owed, take Suarez off hands, send them Stallings (clears another $2.5+ and gives them a catcher option), and take Campusano, and 2-3 FV40 guys. The bet is, Campusano and the prospects outweigh whatever "ordinary $10-15+m" player they would be able to sign. Marlins eat $38+m to find out, and Padres get Stallings and $38m to go for it with Soto. Wouldn't we all take that bet on Campusano and prospects versus just signing a 33 year old Anthony Rizzo? I mean I like Rizzo and he's still good, but if Campusano can catch 60 games a year and DH the rest to a 2+ WAR over 6 years (and his upside is much higher), you've won big time. Not saying this is the right move/trade at all, but I am just positing creativity is needed and it may be smart to take on some shit for some prospects, versus spending money on second class free agents. San Diego has been a good one for years (prior to this Myers) to try and take on salary dumps for prospects, and now they really need money as its pedal to the metal with Soto. I'd at least explore. And I'd hope the FO does this offseason as this would show some real vision IMO.

Just saying. A lot needs to go right for the Marlins to contend and some risks will have to be made. Or it's this endless cycle of treading water until payroll goes up.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

Marlins ballpark would have a full house if Big G comes back, lol.

 

5 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

Maybe for the first game and even that is just a maybe.

Opening Day 2012 was, I think, the only sellout game that Stanton was part of with the Marlins.

Stanton was chasing 60 homers in 2017 and people still weren't coming out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Michael said:

 

Opening Day 2012 was, I think, the only sellout game that Stanton was part of with the Marlins.

Stanton was chasing 60 homers in 2017 and people still weren't coming out.

Man, that August was something else to watch (I think it was August that he just went apeshit?).  I was glued to the games because he was hitting everything on the nose for a full month.  That might be the absolute hottest I've ever seen a ballplayer get.  It was really something else to see and I get shivers just thinking about how utterly amazing he was that month.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, hovertical said:

Man, that August was something else to watch (I think it was August that he just went apeshit?).  I was glued to the games because he was hitting everything on the nose for a full month.  That might be the absolute hottest I've ever seen a ballplayer get.  It was really something else to see and I get shivers just thinking about how utterly amazing he was that month.

Yeah, August. I likened it to many many years ago when I was just watching highlights of guys hitting homers and it was like that, playing out in real time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

Marlins owe Garcia, Soler, and Stanton (deferred, thanks Jeff!) $90m for 2023-beyond. Would you trade Garcia, Soler, Stanton contract, Salas, Lewis, Fulton, J. Miller, and A. Santos for $1 cash considerations. In a vacuum, the surplus value calculation works out and maybe some team will bank on Garcia/Soler rebounding to 2021/2019, and you have 5 good dart throws. Marlins could get KILLED in this deal, but $90m dollars in hand may be worth.... and then get rid of Cooper, Anderson, Rojas, Floro, and Berti which would shed $20m off 2023 dollars, and oh wow we have $110m in "new" money to spend and how much budget did Bruce up the next few years? Even if that's only he goes to "85m" in pencil 2023-2024.... there is now $130m to play with and what does Swanson/Nimmo want? They probably max out on a Baez/Story contract so you now fit them into Bruce's pile of shit payroll short and longterm. That team can easily be filled out Fortes, Stallings, Lewin, Jazz, Wendle, Groshans, Williams, Bleday, Sanchez, Burdick, and Swanson/Nimmo, and you just need two bats likely a backup/platoon SS/CF and 1B/DH (with Berry on the way!). Notably you STILL have the pitching to trade here which is why this could work. Or you just made Bruce $90m and Kim gets herself a raise for being so brilliant to save Bruce even more money, (despite causing most of the deficit with Garcia/Soler.....).

Practically, no one would would likely do this as it's too massive of a trade, but frankly, this is the type of things THE MARLINS should be thinking about in reverse at smaller scale. That's what I was getting at here. The payrolls Bruce is setting are crap and you're not going to get an impact player, so if you only have say, a 3-4/$48 contract to be able to be extended this offseason (I assume this is probably the max in the Bruce budget), why not absorb $48 million in literally shit contracts? I'm just saying, one of the best moves the organization ever did was pay Mike Hampton to pitch elsewhere. Maybe the front office should show some vision/think outside the box and literally buy prospects with this money versus a stopgap free agent.

Here's a real world example. Padres still owe Hosmer 3/$36.5 2023-2025. They ate that to get Soto. They also owe Robert Suarez $5m in 2023. Send Padres cash for Hosmer as it is owed, take Suarez off hands, send them Stallings (clears another $2.5+ and gives them a catcher option), and take Campusano, and 2-3 FV40 guys. The bet is, Campusano and the prospects outweigh whatever "ordinary $10-15+m" player they would be able to sign. Marlins eat $38+m to find out, and Padres get Stallings and $38m to go for it with Soto. Wouldn't we all take that bet on Campusano and prospects versus just signing a 33 year old Anthony Rizzo? I mean I like Rizzo and he's still good, but if Campusano can catch 60 games a year and DH the rest to a 2+ WAR over 6 years (and his upside is much higher), you've won big time. Not saying this is the right move/trade at all, but I am just positing creativity is needed and it may be smart to take on some shit for some prospects, versus spending money on second class free agents. San Diego has been a good one for years (prior to this Myers) to try and take on salary dumps for prospects, and now they really need money as its pedal to the metal with Soto. I'd at least explore. And I'd hope the FO does this offseason as this would show some real vision IMO.

Just saying. A lot needs to go right for the Marlins to contend and some risks will have to be made. Or it's this endless cycle of treading water until payroll goes up.

 

So you want to trade several guys for money that won't be spent....eh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TheMarlinsProject said:

We just extended a 35 year old dead arm pitcher for two years even though we have about 20 better younger pitchers.  Why, just why?

Must have been his 1.6 WHIP that convinced us or was it his 4.8k's per 9ip?

 

Who got the extension? I don't see anything online.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...