worst strikeout-to-walk ratio in all of baseball at 111-to-16.

 

 

This guys going to make us pull our hair out if he comes here.

worst strikeout-to-walk ratio in all of baseball at 111-to-16.

 

 

This guys going to make us pull our hair out if he comes here.

 

 

Apparently, it's a done deal. I'm gonna take that nap now.

If this happens, can anyone think of a worse signing in Beinfest's career??

If this happens, can anyone think of a worse signing in Beinfest's career??

 

 

Wes Helms?

Not even close.

It's certainly not the worst signing in the world (although personally I think we should just stick it out, have Hayes the starter for 7 games, then let Ronny come back and take the starting spot back), but considering we are a team on a very tight budget, this move makes very little sense. This team has been very hesitent in the past to give long term deals to good players, why give 3 years + pretty big money to a meh catcher?

 

That kind of money should be spent on a good starting pitcher, a center fielder, maybe even a 3rd baseman, not a catcher like John Buck.

i would so much rather spend the money that we are giving him to frontload a contract for uggla. if we trade uggla it will haunt the franchise. if he played a less important position that would be one thing, but he is a fan favorite at a premium position, he needs to stay.

We could almost have just kept Cody for that money :whistle

Yeah, I also think this is a mistake. Remember that a year ago he had to settle for a 1 year deal for $2 million.

Well. Look at that. Hm.

i would so much rather spend the money that we are giving him to frontload a contract for uggla. if we trade uggla it will haunt the franchise. if he played a less important position that would be one thing, but he is a fan favorite at a premium position, he needs to stay.

 

 

Maybe they know they won't be able to sign him long term so they signed Buck now........

I don't like the contract, but some of you are overreacting.

 

1. I'd rather give this money to John Buck than Cody Ross. You can find a million CF'ers with Cody Ross production; you can't find as many catchers with John Buck's power.

2. They don't think Baker can catch, which makes Paulino irrelevant. Plus, Paulino had off-field issues with steroids. Not really something an organization likes, especially when it happens to average players like Paulino.

3. Buck played 118 games in 2010, and put together a ~3 WAR.

 

Bottom line is, he needs to be 2010 John Buck. If he is, then whatever.

 

With Uggla likely leaving, that means we're losing our most consistent power bat. The team could use some power to replace some of Uggla's production. This also means that Uggla's trade value isn't as good as people think (because if we could acquire a good, young catcher for him...we would. But, apparently, he's not worth that; probably because the team's interested in him aren't sure if he'll sign with them long-term).

 

It's not that John Buck is a bad baseball player; it's that John Buck is a risky baseball player. If he changed and his power is legit, then the deal isn't "bad." It's just not my type of thing to sign risky players like this, but power is needed on a team. Our team .OBP should be fine with Coghlan, Morrison, Hanley, and Gaby. Coghlan, Morrison, and Gaby don't project to hit for a whole lot of power though, so you need power. If you have no power on the team, you end up being the 2010 Oakland A's (who are now looking for power to balance their lineup).

 

Again, if his power is legit, then whatever. ~3 WAR catchers with 20 HR power don't grow on trees, and that's what he did in 2010. Just hope that his power isn't a fluke; if it is, then it's the worst contract in Marlins history.

 

For what it's worth, John Buck was once a top prospect, so the potential has always been there for him. Maybe he just finally figured things out in 2010. As bobbob mentioned in another thread, his 2009 offensive power #'s were good too; he just didn't start that year (got about half the # of PA's that he got in 2010). It's possible that he's figured things out, and his power is legit. Lets all hope that's the case.

Yeah i think the team is banking on that last years John Buck is for real.

I don't like the contract, but some of you are overreacting.

 

1. I'd rather give this money to John Buck than Cody Ross. You can find a million CF'ers with Cody Ross production; you can't find as many catchers with John Buck's power.

2. They don't think Baker can catch, which makes Paulino irrelevant. Plus, Paulino had off-field issues with steroids. Not really something an organization likes, especially when it happens to average players like Paulino.

3. Buck played 118 games in 2010, and put together a ~3 WAR.

 

Bottom line is, he needs to be 2010 John Buck. If he is, then whatever.

 

With Uggla likely leaving, that means we're losing our most consistent power bat. The team could use some power to replace some of Uggla's production. This also means that Uggla's trade value isn't as good as people think (because if we could acquire a good, young catcher for him...we would. But, apparently, he's not worth that; probably because the team's interested in him aren't sure if he'll sign with them long-term).

 

It's not that John Buck is a bad baseball player; it's that John Buck is a risky baseball player. If he changed and his power is legit, then the deal isn't "bad." It's just not my type of thing to sign risky players like this, but power is needed on a team. Our team .OBP should be fine with Coghlan, Morrison, Hanley, and Gaby. Coghlan, Morrison, and Gaby don't project to hit for a whole lot of power though, so you need power. If you have no power on the team, you end up being the 2010 Oakland A's (who are now looking for power to balance their lineup).

 

Again, if his power is legit, then whatever. ~3 WAR catchers with 20 HR power don't grow on trees, and that's what he did in 2010. Just hope that his power isn't a fluke; if it is, then it's the worst contract in Marlins history.

 

For what it's worth, John Buck was once a top prospect, so the potential has always been there for him. Maybe he just finally figured things out in 2010. As bobbob mentioned in another thread, his 2009 offensive power #'s were good too; he just didn't start that year (got about half the # of PA's that he got in 2010). It's possible that he's figured things out, and his power is legit. Lets all hope that's the case.

 

 

The fact that he had his best season at almost 30, and can't play defense. He had the worst BB/K in an easier hitting league. The Marlins very rarely do long term deals and this seams to be a terrible time to do it, especially upward of 15 million.

 

Edit: If he puts together 3 season like 2010, ya than whatever... But he won't.

Totally agree with Backin2008. Buck hit 20 of his 90 career homers last year in Toronto where everyone hit 20! He's a .243 lifetime hitter and the money could be spent keeping Uggla who is a proven masher. Are the Marlins going to go with Buck and ? Prediction. Baker gets traded and goes crazy hitting when his surgery heals. He was from Spring Training and never really got a chance to be healthy. I take a healthy Baker over a career year Buck and I spend the money on Uggla.

From what I've watched he's probably average defensively, though I've heard it said he's a little better behind the plate & maybe a little worse throwing out runners.

 

16 walks in 437 plate appearances. That's not easy to do.

 

Not really sure where to go with this. I guess it's nice they'd spend some money, but if we're dumping Uggla over an extra year, then dropping 3/15 on John Buck....??

 

 

Also, signing a FA after a career year....very un-Marlins.

 

He does seem to be able to hit lefties relatively well.

 

 

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this one. Probably one of the better FA cathers out there I guess, just doesn't seem like our MO.

It'll be 3 years/18 mil Rosenthal says.

Totally agree with Backin2008. Buck hit 20 of his 90 career homers last year in Toronto where everyone hit 20! He's a .243 lifetime hitter and the money could be spent keeping Uggla who is a proven masher. Are the Marlins going to go with Buck and ? Prediction. Baker gets traded and goes crazy hitting when his surgery heals. He was from Spring Training and never really got a chance to be healthy. I take a healthy Baker over a career year Buck and I spend the money on Uggla.

I don't like the contract, but some of you are overreacting.

 

1. I'd rather give this money to John Buck than Cody Ross. You can find a million CF'ers with Cody Ross production; you can't find as many catchers with John Buck's power.

2. They don't think Baker can catch, which makes Paulino irrelevant. Plus, Paulino had off-field issues with steroids. Not really something an organization likes, especially when it happens to average players like Paulino.

3. Buck played 118 games in 2010, and put together a ~3 WAR.

 

Bottom line is, he needs to be 2010 John Buck. If he is, then whatever.

 

With Uggla likely leaving, that means we're losing our most consistent power bat. The team could use some power to replace some of Uggla's production. This also means that Uggla's trade value isn't as good as people think (because if we could acquire a good, young catcher for him...we would. But, apparently, he's not worth that; probably because the team's interested in him aren't sure if he'll sign with them long-term).

 

It's not that John Buck is a bad baseball player; it's that John Buck is a risky baseball player. If he changed and his power is legit, then the deal isn't "bad." It's just not my type of thing to sign risky players like this, but power is needed on a team. Our team .OBP should be fine with Coghlan, Morrison, Hanley, and Gaby. Coghlan, Morrison, and Gaby don't project to hit for a whole lot of power though, so you need power. If you have no power on the team, you end up being the 2010 Oakland A's (who are now looking for power to balance their lineup).

 

Again, if his power is legit, then whatever. ~3 WAR catchers with 20 HR power don't grow on trees, and that's what he did in 2010. Just hope that his power isn't a fluke; if it is, then it's the worst contract in Marlins history.

 

For what it's worth, John Buck was once a top prospect, so the potential has always been there for him. Maybe he just finally figured things out in 2010. As bobbob mentioned in another thread, his 2009 offensive power #'s were good too; he just didn't start that year (got about half the # of PA's that he got in 2010). It's possible that he's figured things out, and his power is legit. Lets all hope that's the case.

 

 

The fact that he had his best season at almost 30, and can't play defense. He had the worst BB/K in an easier hitting league. The Marlins very rarely do long term deals and this seams to be a terrible time to do it, especially upward of 15 million.

 

Edit: If he puts together 3 season like 2010, ya than whatever... But he won't.

 

 

The American League isn't an "easier hitting league." It's a more difficult league for pitchers because they don't get to face opposing pitchers/the bottom of American League lineups are normally better. If you can hit, you can hit. Period.

 

The rest I won't disagree with. As I said yesterday, Buck isn't the type of guy I'd throw money at if I were a GM. I stated my reasons. I'm just looking at the other side of things, and it sounds like you pretty much agree with me. Lets just hope he's 2010 John Buck. That's all.

 

Regarding his defense, it seems like he gets the bad reputation based on his inability to throw out baserunners; it seems like he's fine handling the pitchers, etc. I believe he was Gil Meche's personal catcher in KC.

I don't like the contract, but some of you are overreacting.

 

1. I'd rather give this money to John Buck than Cody Ross. You can find a million CF'ers with Cody Ross production; you can't find as many catchers with John Buck's power.

2. They don't think Baker can catch, which makes Paulino irrelevant. Plus, Paulino had off-field issues with steroids. Not really something an organization likes, especially when it happens to average players like Paulino.

3. Buck played 118 games in 2010, and put together a ~3 WAR.

 

Bottom line is, he needs to be 2010 John Buck. If he is, then whatever.

 

With Uggla likely leaving, that means we're losing our most consistent power bat. The team could use some power to replace some of Uggla's production. This also means that Uggla's trade value isn't as good as people think (because if we could acquire a good, young catcher for him...we would. But, apparently, he's not worth that; probably because the team's interested in him aren't sure if he'll sign with them long-term).

 

It's not that John Buck is a bad baseball player; it's that John Buck is a risky baseball player. If he changed and his power is legit, then the deal isn't "bad." It's just not my type of thing to sign risky players like this, but power is needed on a team. Our team .OBP should be fine with Coghlan, Morrison, Hanley, and Gaby. Coghlan, Morrison, and Gaby don't project to hit for a whole lot of power though, so you need power. If you have no power on the team, you end up being the 2010 Oakland A's (who are now looking for power to balance their lineup).

 

Again, if his power is legit, then whatever. ~3 WAR catchers with 20 HR power don't grow on trees, and that's what he did in 2010. Just hope that his power isn't a fluke; if it is, then it's the worst contract in Marlins history.

 

For what it's worth, John Buck was once a top prospect, so the potential has always been there for him. Maybe he just finally figured things out in 2010. As bobbob mentioned in another thread, his 2009 offensive power #'s were good too; he just didn't start that year (got about half the # of PA's that he got in 2010). It's possible that he's figured things out, and his power is legit. Lets all hope that's the case.

 

You may have listed them elsewhere and I missed it, but who are the CFers with Cody's production who are readily available at this price?

By the way, Paulino is trade bait. A team like the Red Sox makes a lot of sense. The Red Sox were interested in Buck to platoon with Saltalamacchia. Maybe we can get a decent return for Paulino.

I don't like the contract, but some of you are overreacting.

 

1. I'd rather give this money to John Buck than Cody Ross. You can find a million CF'ers with Cody Ross production; you can't find as many catchers with John Buck's power.

2. They don't think Baker can catch, which makes Paulino irrelevant. Plus, Paulino had off-field issues with steroids. Not really something an organization likes, especially when it happens to average players like Paulino.

3. Buck played 118 games in 2010, and put together a ~3 WAR.

 

Bottom line is, he needs to be 2010 John Buck. If he is, then whatever.

 

With Uggla likely leaving, that means we're losing our most consistent power bat. The team could use some power to replace some of Uggla's production. This also means that Uggla's trade value isn't as good as people think (because if we could acquire a good, young catcher for him...we would. But, apparently, he's not worth that; probably because the team's interested in him aren't sure if he'll sign with them long-term).

 

It's not that John Buck is a bad baseball player; it's that John Buck is a risky baseball player. If he changed and his power is legit, then the deal isn't "bad." It's just not my type of thing to sign risky players like this, but power is needed on a team. Our team .OBP should be fine with Coghlan, Morrison, Hanley, and Gaby. Coghlan, Morrison, and Gaby don't project to hit for a whole lot of power though, so you need power. If you have no power on the team, you end up being the 2010 Oakland A's (who are now looking for power to balance their lineup).

 

Again, if his power is legit, then whatever. ~3 WAR catchers with 20 HR power don't grow on trees, and that's what he did in 2010. Just hope that his power isn't a fluke; if it is, then it's the worst contract in Marlins history.

 

For what it's worth, John Buck was once a top prospect, so the potential has always been there for him. Maybe he just finally figured things out in 2010. As bobbob mentioned in another thread, his 2009 offensive power #'s were good too; he just didn't start that year (got about half the # of PA's that he got in 2010). It's possible that he's figured things out, and his power is legit. Lets all hope that's the case.

 

You may have listed them elsewhere and I missed it, but who are the CFers with Cody's production who are readily available at this price?

 

In free agency? The CF'ers all suck. I was just making the point that it's a lot easier to find outfielders than it is to find catchers. A CF'er should be the priority now in any Uggla trade.

Just my irrelevant two cents...

 

If the FO is stuck on losing Paulino, this is fine because if he has a year like 2010, he can't be a downgrade from Paulino, and as a whole is an upgrade from our Hayes/Davis/Hatcher situation. Point is, I see Buck as at least a somewhat "proven" name to be a replacement for Paulino, no matter what happens with Baker. Buck as a Paulino-Band aid stopgap is just fine by me.

 

I question the length, I'd imagine in 3 years we'd have decided if Baker is worth keeping longterm of if Skipworth is ready. What will we do with Buck in 2013 if he doesnt match or exceed his 2010 numbers?

 

Defense aside, I'm happy to see we are targeting a catcher who is supposed to help us offensively... if we lose Uggla, a productive John Buck would be a nice help to our lineup.

 

Bottom line... was his 2010 a fluke? Can he match or exceed his 2010? Is three years too much? Where does this tie in to the Uggla situation? Is Paulino as good as gone with this signing?

 

And lastly, holy crap somebody pour me a shot of tequila... we may not unanimously like the name... but the freakin Marlins are throwing random money at a free agent not named Carlos Delgado!!! Hell is getting chilly tonight!!!

It'll be 3 years/18 mil Rosenthal says.

 

 

so is this deal final?

i would so much rather spend the money that we are giving him to frontload a contract for uggla. if we trade uggla it will haunt the franchise. if he played a less important position that would be one thing, but he is a fan favorite at a premium position, he needs to stay.

 

 

Maybe they know they won't be able to sign him long term so they signed Buck now........

 

 

If the Marlins sign Buck for the reported numbers, then Uggla is gone.

 

Unless Loria intends to go above $60M next year and we all know that ain't happening.

I don't like the contract, but some of you are overreacting.

 

1. I'd rather give this money to John Buck than Cody Ross. You can find a million CF'ers with Cody Ross production; you can't find as many catchers with John Buck's power.

2. They don't think Baker can catch, which makes Paulino irrelevant. Plus, Paulino had off-field issues with steroids. Not really something an organization likes, especially when it happens to average players like Paulino.

3. Buck played 118 games in 2010, and put together a ~3 WAR.

 

Bottom line is, he needs to be 2010 John Buck. If he is, then whatever.

 

With Uggla likely leaving, that means we're losing our most consistent power bat. The team could use some power to replace some of Uggla's production. This also means that Uggla's trade value isn't as good as people think (because if we could acquire a good, young catcher for him...we would. But, apparently, he's not worth that; probably because the team's interested in him aren't sure if he'll sign with them long-term).

 

It's not that John Buck is a bad baseball player; it's that John Buck is a risky baseball player. If he changed and his power is legit, then the deal isn't "bad." It's just not my type of thing to sign risky players like this, but power is needed on a team. Our team .OBP should be fine with Coghlan, Morrison, Hanley, and Gaby. Coghlan, Morrison, and Gaby don't project to hit for a whole lot of power though, so you need power. If you have no power on the team, you end up being the 2010 Oakland A's (who are now looking for power to balance their lineup).

 

Again, if his power is legit, then whatever. ~3 WAR catchers with 20 HR power don't grow on trees, and that's what he did in 2010. Just hope that his power isn't a fluke; if it is, then it's the worst contract in Marlins history.

 

For what it's worth, John Buck was once a top prospect, so the potential has always been there for him. Maybe he just finally figured things out in 2010. As bobbob mentioned in another thread, his 2009 offensive power #'s were good too; he just didn't start that year (got about half the # of PA's that he got in 2010). It's possible that he's figured things out, and his power is legit. Lets all hope that's the case.

 

 

1. It's not too easy to find CFs w/Cody Ross's power, either. I'm not saying I really wanted to keep Cody, but in the interest of fairness...

3. He may have had a 3 WAR in 2010, but he averaged closer to a .5 WAR/year his other 6 years. Obviously we have to hope that he's just another late-developing catcher.

This also doesn't necessarily say anything about Uggla's trade value. The Marlins seemed to like Buck from the beginning; they now have catcher locked up for a few years (even if they won't be getting all-world production); they would have even more leverage in trade talks since they have fewer holes; and maybe they decided to just focus on pitching, and maybe CF, if they do deal Uggla.