Although we didn't trade Ozuna for Brinson, here is an interesting comparison.  Disclaimer:  I am still for demoting him to AAA

 

If you throw out the batting averages going into today's game:

 

OZUNA: HR: 4 RBI: 24

 

BRINSON: HR: 7 RBI 19

 

I throw out batting averages and RBI all the time. OBP/OPS, bitches. Wieners.

 

 

Seriously where the fuck is Larry? He runs the site for years and then leaves? 

 

Maybe just got tired of a lot of people here and wanted a break. He may come back eventually, who knows.

 

 

Ole Brinson misplays another ball and let’s 2 runs score.  How this scrub isn’t demoted yet is a damn disgrace....

 

 

I haven’t been watching, but if he’s had fielding gaffes lately, it indicates to me that the batting troubles are carrying over into the field now.

 

 

If someone told me that Michael Hill agreed to Brinsons weekend of Juan Pierre cosplay and that he’s a baby cake after that weekend it wouldn’t surprise me 

 

can't wait to see him as a Baby Cake

 

 

 

But, I thought you guys had him pegged for NL Rookie of the year in spring training ?  Not all rebuilds are going to culminate in a World Series parade just cuz it happened in Chi-town and Houston.  They have smart people in the front office, we don't.

 

 

I thought you guys had him pegged for NL Rookie of the year in spring training ?

 

Did many people say that? I saw a bunch say it about Brian Anderson.

 

 

Not all rebuilds are going to culminate in a World Series parade just cuz it happened in Chi-town and Houston

 

It took them one season? Not all will end that way but it took them several years so who is to say it won't work here.

 

 

can't wait to see him as a Baby Cake

 

 

This is excellent work 

 

 

But, I thought you guys had him pegged for NL Rookie of the year in spring training ?  Not all rebuilds are going to culminate in a World Series parade just cuz it happened in Chi-town and Houston.  They have smart people in the front office, we don't.

 

This is a backwards way of looking at things as well. Not all rebuilds end in a world series so we should have stuck with the perennial losing team we had last year? That's like telling a child that not everyone ends up with a college degree at the end so don't even bother going to school aka don't even try and improve? 

 

Many rebuilds have ended with success... just because some didn't doesn't mean they're not worth trying. 

 

 

Without the trades we have three additional wins.   

 

 

I know everyone wants to say he's young and he'll rebound but he has been on a historically bad run considering he is (was) our top prospect. He doesn't even have a good approach, he looks lost. We should be really worried.

 

 

I know everyone wants to say he's young and he'll rebound but he has been on a historically bad run considering he is (was) our top prospect. He doesn't even have a good approach, he looks lost. We should be really worried.

 

We should obviously be a little worried as it is prolong struggling at the ML level, but this team is developing him in such a stupid way.  If he accrues another month and a half or so of minor league time he gets an extra year of team control for the team, which is very important as a small market team.  He wasn't even as good as his spring stats suggested because his K/BB was also horrible in spring and i mentioned then how he will inevitably struggle at least early on with that .  But they kept him on the roster, which i wouldnt be as upset with if they just allowed him every opportunity to succeed on the big league level.  They had the right idea early on hitting him towards the top of the lineup even if he struggled, but if he struggled like he did initially the answer needed to be to send him to AAA, not to the bottom of the lineup.  Now they are just wasting his service time to hit him 8th in an already terrible lineup.  

 

Not only is he having his own struggles which he obviously is, but he is being done no favors by the marlins in who they surround him with in the lineup.  He's always hitting right in front of the pitchers and right behind guys like Rivera, Rojas, Holaday, Maybin, etc.  At least try to put him towards the top of the lineup to have better guys around him and let him see better pitches and let him get as many ab's as possible.  They have to send him down now though, its not only been too long and does he look lost at the plate, but he's also letting it carryover into the field after being elite in CF for most of the year.

 

 

We should obviously be a little worried as it is prolong struggling at the ML level, but this team is developing him in such a stupid way.  If he accrues another month and a half or so of minor league time he gets an extra year of team control for the team, which is very important as a small market team.  He wasn't even as good as his spring stats suggested because his K/BB was also horrible in spring and i mentioned then how he will inevitably struggle at least early on with that .  But they kept him on the roster, which i wouldnt be as upset with if they just allowed him every opportunity to succeed on the big league level.  They had the right idea early on hitting him towards the top of the lineup even if he struggled, but if he struggled like he did initially the answer needed to be to send him to AAA, not to the bottom of the lineup.  Now they are just wasting his service time to hit him 8th in an already terrible lineup.  

 

Not only is he having his own struggles which he obviously is, but he is being done no favors by the marlins in who they surround him with in the lineup.  He's always hitting right in front of the pitchers and right behind guys like Rivera, Rojas, Holaday, Maybin, etc.  At least try to put him towards the top of the lineup to have better guys around him and let him see better pitches and let him get as many ab's as possible.  They have to send him down now though, its not only been too long and does he look lost at the plate, but he's also letting it carryover into the field after being elite in CF for most of the year.

 

Yeah management isnt helping at all. They need to send him down now and not bring him up again until September (assuming he's at least decent in AAA). If the theory about keeping him up until the throwback series is correct then that's laughable. 

 

 

This is a backwards way of looking at things as well. Not all rebuilds end in a world series so we should have stuck with the perennial losing team we had last year? That's like telling a child that not everyone ends up with a college degree at the end so don't even bother going to school aka don't even try and improve? 

 

Many rebuilds have ended with success... just because some didn't doesn't mean they're not worth trying. 

 

I get tired of the "perennial losing team" nonsense that is straight out of the Jeter PR playbook.  You act as if the core group had been together for many years.  You had players just coming into their prime (Yelich, Realmuto, Bour) and others who had only been at that level a year or two (Ozuna, even Stanton).  They were blossoming into one of the best offensive units in the national league.  Pitching was always the problem and deciding that a rebuild was necessary because of it can be defended as logical.  But the argument that the core group had been losing for years is totally disingenuous.

 

 

Bunch of guys had career seasons last year and all of the sudden it was going to happen every year for all of them. As we are seeing from some of their production this year, that was likely not the case.

 

 

As for the "only a pitcher or two" away argument that constantly pops up, I saw people that wanted them to sign Darvish. That signing is working out well so far. Not that it was ever a realistic choice to sign. Nobody can name the 2 pitchers who would've put that group over the top.

 

 

I get tired of the "perennial losing team" nonsense that is straight out of the Jeter PR playbook.  You act as if the core group had been together for many years.  You had players just coming into their prime (Yelich, Realmuto, Bour) and others who had only been at that level a year or two (Ozuna, even Stanton).  They were blossoming into one of the best offensive units in the national league.  Pitching was always the problem and deciding that a rebuild was necessary because of it can be defended as logical.  But the argument that the core group had been losing for years is totally disingenuous.

 

They had 4 losing seasons and zero winning seasons. That's a fact. What's disingenuous about that? 

 

Or I guess you're saying the best years for those guys were still to come?

 

 

As for the "only a pitcher or two" away argument that constantly pops up, I saw people that wanted them to sign Darvish. That signing is working out well so far. Not that it was ever a realistic choice to sign. Nobody can name the 2 pitchers who would've put that group over the top.

 

The 2 pitchers were actually Jarlin Garcia and Caleb Smith. Nobody else. If those two would have been enough to make the 2017 team a winner then yeah Jeter messed up by blowing that team up. 

 

 

The 2 pitchers were actually Jarlin Garcia and Caleb Smith. Nobody else. If those two would have been enough to make the 2017 team a winner then yeah Jeter messed up by blowing that team up. 

 

Yep and you and I both know that Garcia and Smith weren't likely putting that team in the World Series.

 

Of course this whole thing relies on the guys in the lineup from last year having career years once again. That isn't likely.

 

 

Yep and you and I both know that Garcia and Smith weren't likely putting that team in the World Series.

 

Of course this whole thing relies on the guys in the lineup from last year having career years once again. That isn't likely.

 

There was a point last summer when the team had that rock bottom feel like this would never get better even with Stanton finally showing his promise and I said to myself something like "this team is due for a major shakeup because it's just not good enough and when it happens we can't just get upset we need to remember these low points and understand why a shakeup is needed." 

 

That doesn't happen enough, sadly. Everyone remembers Stanton hit 59 and they think we were close enough to winning but they forget that even with those 59 homers we sucked.

 

And if the team wasn't blown up and we continued to drown in failure in 2018? Then we would have been here now in June of 2018 with everyone going "omg this team is so bad... Stanton is so expensive... we still have no pitching... why didn't Jeter just do a fire sale... I can't believe Jeter kept all these players just to appease the fan base... what a moron!"

 

 

Yep and you and I both know that Garcia and Smith weren't likely putting that team in the World Series.

 

Of course this whole thing relies on the guys in the lineup from last year having career years once again. That isn't likely.

 

All this belongs in a different thread titled “can’t move on”.

 

Most people don’t acknowledge that quality free agents weren’t going to sign here as things were currently constructed.  So the two good pitchers were never going to include the two best available pitchers.  Also, the league as a whole showed this past winter that free agency is a bad deal for teams which is why so many players went unsigned for so long.  That fact could be used against the Marlins for not getting more in exchange for the players but the Marlins deals were made before that bore out. 

 

 

They had 4 losing seasons and zero winning seasons. That's a fact. What's disingenuous about that? 

 

Or I guess you're saying the best years for those guys were still to come?

 

Who is "they"?  Yelich, Realmuto, Ozuna, Bour - they weren't even on the team at the beginning of your four year stretch.  Again, I understand the point about pitching - the pitching sucked and that justified the teardown.  But, the argument that the same players had been "perennial losers" doesn't fly. 

 

 

Who is "they"?  Yelich, Realmuto, Ozuna, Bour - they weren't even on the team at the beginning of your four year stretch.  Again, I understand the point about pitching - the pitching sucked and that justified the teardown.  But, the argument that the same players had been "perennial losers" doesn't fly. 

 

It isn’t so much a commentary on those players specifically, but more of a remark on the quality of the organization as a whole which has been ranked in the bottom five of MLB every year for quite some time now.

 

At this juncture the only thing left to litigate in the court of public opinion is picking out the good 27-30 year old players and having a discussion about whether or not they are worth keeping to build around.  We are nowhere close to being in a place where we would want to be active in the free agent market for players that would cost much money.  It is impossible to speculate on high school and college players with any degree of accuracy to where we should get worked up over them yet.  The whole idea of being excited about getting a top five pick is something I can’t get behind.  It’s a bit of a wait and see approach now

 

 

Who is "they"?  Yelich, Realmuto, Ozuna, Bour - they weren't even on the team at the beginning of your four year stretch.  Again, I understand the point about pitching - the pitching sucked and that justified the teardown.  But, the argument that the same players had been "perennial losers" doesn't fly. 

 

That's fair. Those guys individually were not losers, not at all. They, however, were the foundation of a team that never had a winning season and it's hard to say the Marlins, as a team, were gonna be any better or any closer to contention from that point forward.