so @SonOfJack and @SilverBullet, if they do end up moving JT for Barnhart, India and some throw-in - would either of you seriously begin to doubt the ability of the new group to run the franchise successfully?  I'm not trying to be an ass and I'm not being snide or snarky - I'm genuinely interested how your perception would change, if at all.  @Michael, if you'd like to chime in I'd welcome your thoughts too.  You 3 have been the biggest supporters of the direction the team has taken since the new ownership group took the reigns so if they butcher this trade (coupled with the Yelich one) I'm honestly inquiring if you'd really sour on the new group or just be annoyed but still firm believers in the direction they're headed.

 

 

so @SonOfJack and @SilverBullet, if they do end up moving JT for Barnhart, India and some throw-in - would either of you seriously begin to doubt the ability of the new group to run the franchise successfully?  I'm not trying to be an ass and I'm not being snide or snarky - I'm genuinely interested how your perception would change, if at all.  @Michael, if you'd like to chime in I'd welcome your thoughts too.  You 3 have been the biggest supporters of the direction the team has taken since the new ownership group took the reigns so if they butcher this trade (coupled with the Yelich one) I'm honestly inquiring if you'd really sour on the new group or just be annoyed but still firm believers in the direction they're headed.

 

Thanks for asking... I wouldn't exaggerate and abandon ship based off this one trade but yes I'd be upset and more doubtful moving forward especially because up to this point it seems like they do have leverage with this trade and I'd be pretty pissed if they can't show themselves capable of taking advantage of this leverage.

 

But so far I feel pretty confident that they won't fall for India and Barnhart as the centerpieces here.

 

 

Roto:  Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com is hearing that the Marlins and Reds are still negotiating a possible J.T. Realmuto trade.

 

Mayo's sources indicate that a package is coalescing around catcher Tucker Barnhart, prospect infielder Jonathan India and one or more lesser prospects heading to the Marlins. Every day generates new rumors about Realmuto's possible destination but this is one of the more specific scenarios we have seen. Sources indicate the Reds have taken their top three prospects off the table (3B/2B Nick Senzel, OF Taylor Trammell and RHP Hunter Greene). India was the fifth overall selection in last year's Draft. He makes a natural trade candidate because he is blocked in Cincinnati by Eugenio Suarez at third base and at second base by Scooter Gennett and Senzel. The Marlins have been shopping Realmuto for years and are currently negotiating with the Padres in addition to the Reds. The Dodgers and Braves are among some other teams that are interested as well.

 

Yikes... So basically India, a mediocre/solid-ish catcher and some lesser prospects? It can't be. If the Reds give up 1 prospect from their top 10 and it's not one of those 3, this trade will go down just like the Yelich one. If India is the best player in the deal there better be multiple prospects in the 5-15  range from their farm coming along with him. If by lesser, they mean just lower than India (who's ranked 4th), that's fine. Tony Santillan and Mike Siani. But if they mean lesser meaning 15-25 range... that's super lame. I still don't understand why we'd give value for Barnhart. I know having a solid defensive catcher is important for pitcher development but this is not the way to go about it.

 

Isnt that what I said a potential Reds deal would look like the other day.  

 

Should have just listened to ole Das back then.  

 

The Reds can say they wont move India all the want (they would for the right player).  Moving Barnhadt makes sense as the Marlins would need a catcher and the Reds dont need him.  

 

If thats the deal the other piece I assume would be a high tools but someone who has yet to put it together pitcher.  Look for someone with ++ stuff and maybe lacking in other things, like control or secondary pitches.  

 

 

Just thought about it. I love that we're in this position, honestly. Two years of control on JT.

 

Say we don't trade him. "Oh but we could have gotten a great return for him!" Yes, I know. But say we don't trade him, and 2019 goes a little better than expected. JT starts thinking, "I could be the key piece of this team." 2020, still here, the season starts off strong, JT starts off on a career year. He sees the team, he sees the potential, he sees he could be "the guy" here, a leader, the centerpiece. Halfway through 2020, he changes his mind and decides to sign a long-term deal with the Marlins and now the fans have someone they can rally behind in what ends up being hopefully the first of many winning seasons since 2009.

 

I may not be wording this well, but hopefully my point comes through.

 

Marlins look to be real bad in 2019 unless they do something like sign major talent between now and Opening Day.  

 

 

The only problem with your scenario is that we lack the players and depth for things to suddenly start getting better in the next 1-2 years and then we'd have to commit big bucks to a player going into his age 30 season. Do you really want to hand Realmuto a 5 year 100M type deal in 2020-2021 with him in his 30's?

 

To me, even though the return wasn't great on Ozuna, it was necessary. Stanton was actually a solid trade considering how teams are being more financially responsible. But to me, you either keep Realmuto and Yelich in their primes and build around them so by the time they're at the end of their deals hopefully we have some propsects and new FA signings to compete. Or you trade both of them. You can't half-ass this. Look at how deep and good the teams are in the playoffs, we're sooooo soooo far away from that.

 

Marlins should have never traded Yelich, tbh.  

 

They should have kept Ozuna too, but at least we didnt give up much of anything to acquire him.  Hope he has a big contract year in 2019!  

 

 

@hovertical I already said I'd be pissed if they accepted an offer like that. I wouldn't write them off completely over it, but I'd definitely be pissed about it and not defend it. That being said, I seriously doubt they'll do that anyway.

 

 

India would be nice... Barnhart would be nice as the immediate replacement for JT (people are forgetting that we have no major league ready catchers)... but to have those two guys be the centerpieces would be a travesty. They shouldn't be more than throw ins at this point.

 

Luckily the Reds aren't the only teams left in this race and the Marlins know that. 

 

Starting to believe the tweet the other day that said the Reds would like Realmuto but they don't think they need him enough to part with top pieces. They're looking for a discount and the Marlins have zero reason to give it to them. 

 

The other teams could easily top the Reds offer. I have to believe the Padres and Dodgers have more urgency than Cincinnati in this thing. The Braves seem to be doing the same thing the Reds are doing... waiting for a bargain. 

 

I mean I get calling Barnhardt a throw in but you are crazy if you think India would be a 'throw in' in any deal, instead of a vital key cog to any deal.  

 

 

Really hoping some other team steps up in their trade package for JT because the Reds one just really seems kinda meh

 

 

Really hoping some other team steps up in their trade package for JT because the Reds one just really seems kinda meh

 

Reds one is awful, no sugarcoating it.

 

 

To be fair, my post also made some more unsaid assumptions that other additions are made to further convince JT to stay. But based on what I did say, I understand your response and I agree with it.

 

The way the Marlins did things were wrong in 2018.

 

You either pick players to actually build around (Yelich, Realmuto, Ozuna woulda been great) or you tear it all down to the studs.

 

The Marlins in true Marlins fashion did the alternative and half assed it.  

 

 

Should have just listened to ole Das back then.  

 

You sure do love yourself.

 

 

Oh and if the Marlins do take an India, Barnhardt, prospect package...

 

Then what do you think the Padres were offering?  Marlins really almost need to find a third party that likes Meija if they arent high on him, that has something the Marlins covet.    

 

 

The other thing with the Padres is that they have Meija who is ready now.  

 

The Dodgers have Ruiz, who will be ready next year.  

 

The Dodgers dont need Realmuto to win the NL West.  

 

The Padres, they have to figure out what direction they are truly going in.  I'd have to imagine while they covet Realmuto because they want to make a splash, they wont overpay for him.

 

That's the problem the Marlins are having, they are placing this gigantic price on Realmuto and nobody wants to pay it.

 

Its a similar problem that Harper and Machaco largely are having.  They have prices that are insane and nobody seems to want to pay it.  

 

End of day, if nobody is paying your price, is your price really market value?  

 

 

I mean I get calling Barnhardt a throw in but you are crazy if you think India would be a 'throw in' in any deal, instead of a vital key cog to any deal.  

 

I just meant India shouldn't be the best piece of the return for JT... the term "throw in" probably wasn't the best choice.

 

 

I just meant India shouldn't be the best piece of the return for JT... the term "throw in" probably wasn't the best choice.

 

I mean he is the what?  56th or so best prospect or baseball?  Not exactly swiss cheese.  

 

 

That's the problem the Marlins are having, they are placing this gigantic price on Realmuto and nobody wants to pay it.

 

Its a similar problem that Harper and Machaco largely are having.  They have prices that are insane and nobody seems to want to pay it.  

 

End of day, if nobody is paying your price, is your price really market value? 

 

The Marlins don't think they have to trade him though so it's not about market value, it's more like a ransom to be honest... it's setting a high price and if no one pays it then fine no one pays it.

 

Harper and Machado need jobs so they'll have to lower their prices, the Marlins don't have to lower their price if they don't want to so, assuming they really don't mind keeping JT, then maybe it isn't "a problem" to them like you say it is.

 

 

so @SonOfJack and @SilverBullet, if they do end up moving JT for Barnhart, India and some throw-in - would either of you seriously begin to doubt the ability of the new group to run the franchise successfully?  I'm not trying to be an ass and I'm not being snide or snarky - I'm genuinely interested how your perception would change, if at all.  @Michael, if you'd like to chime in I'd welcome your thoughts too.  You 3 have been the biggest supporters of the direction the team has taken since the new ownership group took the reigns so if they butcher this trade (coupled with the Yelich one) I'm honestly inquiring if you'd really sour on the new group or just be annoyed but still firm believers in the direction they're headed.

 

Truthfully, I would start to sour a bit on the ability to make trades, but I'd still be willing to give them some time to see how things go with player development and drafting, which is another area the previous regime didn't seem to do well in. Few exceptions, of course.

 

I have said it from the start, I'll give them five years. I'd like for at least one winning season by the end of the 2022 season, but if I at least see the progress towards success is there [say, if it looks like 2023 might be the beginning of the long-term success], then I'll be ... not exactly satisfied, but not exactly unhappy either.

 

So, to go with your answer options in the final sentence - probably much closer to the "annoyed but believing" side. Faith wavering but not disappearing.

 

 

The Marlins don't think they have to trade him though so it's not about market value, it's more like a ransom to be honest... it's setting a high price and if no one pays it then fine no one pays it.

 

Harper and Machado need jobs so they'll have to lower their prices, the Marlins don't have to lower their price if they don't want to so, assuming they really don't mind keeping JT, then maybe it isn't "a problem" to them like you say it is.

 

Marlins can do whatever they want.  Its a matter of how serious they are about trading the guy.

 

If they are serious they will make it happen and have a real market type price.  If they arent serious they wont lower their demands.

 

Its their business.  They already went this far, so not finishing the job is rather pointless, but I guess if this is the line in the sand go for it.  

 

 

Marlins can do whatever they want.  Its a matter of how serious they are about trading the guy.

 

If they are serious they will make it happen and have a real market type price.  If they arent serious they wont lower their demands.

 

Its their business.  They already went this far, so not finishing the job is rather pointless, but I guess if this is the line in the sand go for it.  

 

Marlins have the upper-hand in this trade, they don't need budge in , but I don't trust Hill

 

 

I really like India. I feel like he’s a guy that jumps into the top 25-30 range in 12 months. The problem is why even waste time with Barnhart? Tell them thanks but no thanks and give us another prospect (I recognize it would be rookie ball/A ball project). Tucker offers zero value to the fish. Go sign AJ Ellis if you want a veteran precense for these young arms coming up. It’s not a knock on tucker (I actually like him behind the dish), but he will be 30 when we are trying to compete and he can’t hit now as is. Recoup as many future assets as possible, and if you need to fill a hole for the time being, there are plenty of vets that would be willing to play the Crash Davis role 

 

 

Marlins have the upper-hand in this trade, they don't need budge in , but I don't trust Hill

 

I trust him this time.

 

 

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Exactly this. It's why i dont think the Marlins give in to the Reds...they're not the only team interested so it's pretty easy for us to get a better offer. 

 

 

Exactly this. It's why i dont think the Marlins give in to the Reds...they're not the only team interested so it's pretty easy for us to get a better offer. 

 

I hope you're right but this has cluster fuck written all over it so far.