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What's our best long term solution to the catcher ?

a. sign back JT 

b. starting Wallach

c. waiting for Banfield 

I didn't add Alfaro to the options because he's indeed not that guy. 

Edited by taiwanmarlin
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1 hour ago, taiwanmarlin said:

What's our best long term solution to the catcher ?

a. sign back JT 

b. starting Wallach

c. waiting for Banfield 

I didn't add Alfaro to the options because he's indeed not that guy. 

It's hard for me to give up on Alfaro. He has so much potential and has shown some really nice play for consistent stretches. But man, the team is clearly showing what they think of him. And it's not much.

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Just now, Vic D said:

It's hard for me to give up on Alfaro. He has so much potential and has shown some really nice play for consistent stretches. But man, the team is clearly showing what they think of him. And it's not much.

They are making the right decision, at least at the current time. Wallach has been giving them the best chance to win in 2020.

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2 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

They are making the right decision, at least at the current time. Wallach has been giving them the best chance to win in 2020.

That's inarguable. But over a 162 game season? That's a real tough call. Alfaro can be an absolute weapon offensively. If only he could call games and connect with our pitchers as well as Wallach.

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39 minutes ago, Vic D said:

That's inarguable. But over a 162 game season? That's a real tough call. Alfaro can be an absolute weapon offensively. If only he could call games and connect with our pitchers as well as Wallach.

I want Cervelli back as a catching coach next year if he is indeed hanging them up (and he should). He could really help mold the minds of our young catchers.

If we could bring back Jeff Mathis in some capacity post career too ...

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5 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

If the NL gets the DH that would help the Alfaro Wallach dilemma. 

Correct.  It's not that Alfaro can't spot start either.  I think part of the allure of getting JT back would just be how awesome it would be to  see that we would now have Alfaro, JT, and Sixto and the Phillies ain't got sheeeeeeeeit. 

Reality though, wouldn't make a bunch of sense signing him to a giant contract on this team at the position he plays due to the usual regression of catchers (which is why it's insane what generational talents like Pudge or Yadier have been able to maintain/accomplish - likely due to lots of massages from Rick Sutcliffe). 

With so many young guys I don't see the Marlins doing much in terms of FA signings, not so much to do with being cheap but I think they're trying to still get a feel for who can actually contribute going forward - in particular because none of the young bats showed much this season. I'd like to see a reliable 4th starter obtained and a couple bp arms with a solid track record, plus the usual fliers of the buy low/sell high variety of guys to maybe deal at the deadline again if they're treading water. 

I still say something is irritating Sixto. I just don't remember seeing him stretching as much between pitches earlier in the season during his first few electric starts. When he started stretching out there is when he started getting hit. They 100% need to have a personal trainer/nutrition expert shadow him during the offseason and keep him on a conditioning program.  Next season will largely hinge on his ability to look like the nearly unhittable version versus the dude giving up rockets.  Having 3 PLUS PLUS arms at the front of your rotation goes a long way in having a successful season. I'd probably even be ok with Castano as the #5 to start the season. 

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4 minutes ago, Vic D said:

Anybody got any good realistic targets for us to pick up in free agency? It's a fun convo I think.

With the amount of money this website makes, probably no one, to be honest.

The Marlins, however ...

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33 minutes ago, Vic D said:

Anybody got any good realistic targets for us to pick up in free agency? It's a fun convo I think.

List of names here: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/09/2020-21-mlb-free-agents.html

I could see the Marlins going after relievers and maybe nabbing a few buy-low or buy-medium bats like Joc Pederson. There's a LOT of talent reaching the upper levels of the minors, though, so they don't want to block those guys. Gotta figure out what you've got.

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32 minutes ago, taiwanmarlin said:

Although it's a 60 game season but we should be a contender in the next season that would have 162 game, when the time is coming you should do your best to upgrade the team.

Of course. And I'm sure they'll upgrade considering they upgraded coming off 105 losses a year ago. Just can't guarantee everything goes so well in 2021 either. As long as they're in the mix and realistic contenders with winning seasons and at least a few playoff berths mixed in over the next several years then that's good. 

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4 hours ago, Vic D said:

That's inarguable. But over a 162 game season? That's a real tough call. Alfaro can be an absolute weapon offensively. If only he could call games and connect with our pitchers as well as Wallach.

Yeah, Alfaro will obviously have to start a lot of the games in a full season, but for the playoffs, I don't want his game calling anywhere near us, with how poorly the pitchers did with him toward the end of the season.

3 hours ago, Michael said:

I want Cervelli back as a catching coach next year if he is indeed hanging them up (and he should). He could really help mold the minds of our young catchers.

If we could bring back Jeff Mathis in some capacity post career too ...

I like both of those ideas.

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28 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Of course. And I'm sure they'll upgrade considering they upgraded coming off 105 losses a year ago. Just can't guarantee everything goes so well in 2021 either. As long as they're in the mix and realistic contenders with winning seasons and at least a few playoff berths mixed in over the next several years then that's good. 

We benefit from the short season and it's just like the postseason starts in advance in the June in a normal season, so in a 162 game season it would need much more veteran present to keep it going. 

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54 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Yeah, Alfaro will obviously have to start a lot of the games in a full season, but for the playoffs, I don't want his game calling anywhere near us, with how poorly the pitchers did with him toward the end of the season.

Yep, I really wanted Alfaro to succeed because he has a TON of power and the ball will indeed make that sweet sound when he barrels it up that you don't hear a lot with every player but man his game calling and overall pitch framing....smh.... he's had some concussions too right?  (yeah, not fair to knock that against him but once you start getting them it's hard to stop). 

I still think he's an every day starting catcher but it may just not be with Miami - just might need the right coach to help him out in the actual catching portion of his game

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I just don't get the logic of Alfaro shouldn't play in the postseason but should be ok to play in the regular season, it seems the loss of the regular season games were acceptable.  Apparently this team have no any confidence in Alfaro now, maybe it's because they see enough bad performance from him in the regular season or it's because the compare with Wallach, no matter what they just don't want to play him now. I just don't think the situation would change when the 2021 season beginning, so this team just needs to address it in the off-season. 

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3 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

I just don't get the logic of Alfaro shouldn't play in the postseason but should be ok to play in the regular season, it seems the loss of the regular season games were acceptable.  Apparently this team have no any confidence in Alfaro now, maybe it's because they see enough bad performance from him in the regular season or it's because the compare with Wallach, no matter what they just don't want to play him now. I just don't think the situation would change when the 2021 season beginning, so this team just needs to address it in the off-season. 

Because you can work with Alfaro in the offseason about pitch calling, framing, etc. so that he'll work better with pitchers - and you can work on that throughout the season too.  Plus, Wallach isn't (right now) and everyday player, so you're going to need to have another catcher that can take a good chunk of the games.

And in a 162 game season, you can afford to have some leeway with a guy not calling a great game.  In the postseason, you do that, you lose, and you're eliminated.  Can't afford to do that.

I imagine Mattingly will give Alfaro a start at some point in one of these series, but I still want Wallach out there - the numbers don't lie.

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And I have nothing against Alfaro - if the pitching numbers were close and just slightly leaning toward Wallach, I'd be fine with starting Alfaro, but they've been heavily skewed.

Does anyone have numbers for pitcher ERA with Wallach and numbers with Alfaro?

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58 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

And I have nothing against Alfaro - if the pitching numbers were close and just slightly leaning toward Wallach, I'd be fine with starting Alfaro, but they've been heavily skewed.

Does anyone have numbers for pitcher ERA with Wallach and numbers with Alfaro?

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article246142305.html

here's some info...just not the straight up stats you're looking for

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8 hours ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

List of names here: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/09/2020-21-mlb-free-agents.html

I could see the Marlins going after relievers and maybe nabbing a few buy-low or buy-medium bats like Joc Pederson. There's a LOT of talent reaching the upper levels of the minors, though, so they don't want to block those guys. Gotta figure out what you've got.

Agreed. While I'm enjoying this current ride, I think the championship window really starts 2022. There's time for more seasoning and development for guys like Jazz, Lewin, Jesus Sanchez, etc. And then, based on what we're really seeing, we can fill holes. Possibly spots like catcher, 2B, an outfield, a starter. And of course always fortifying the bullpen helps.

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One can argue that this 2020 Marlins roster isn't even the one that will really be the hopefully sustainable contender down the line. For all the crap about us being a roster of nobodies there's a chunk of veterans starting here who will be replaced by guys like Jazz, Lewin, Sanchez, Bleday, Monte, etc etc. 

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16 hours ago, rmc523 said:

In the postseason, you do that, you lose, and you're eliminated.  Can't afford to do that.

I imagine Mattingly will give Alfaro a start at some point in one of these series, but I still want Wallach out there - the numbers don't lie.

It's almost like Wallach is more valuable right now, in the 2020 postseason, not because he's a better overall MLB player than Alfaro but because he helps to cover some of the current deficiencies of this team.

Not sure I'm saying that right...

If this team was like the Dodgers, a super team that is gonna win 90 games almost automatically then you can get away with throwing Alfaro in there. But since this is an underdog team that has very little margin for error and that needs to win very close games Wallach's handling of the pitching staff could literally be the difference in many games. 

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10 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

One can argue that this 2020 Marlins roster isn't even the one that will really be the hopefully sustainable contender down the line. For all the crap about us being a roster of nobodies there's a chunk of veterans starting here who will be replaced by guys like Jazz, Lewin, Sanchez, Bleday, Monte, etc etc. 

Let me add a comparison to this. We just saw the Cubs basically still trotting out the 2016 team and expecting them to be as good as they were four years ago. In 2024, the Marlins should have a very different lineup than 2020 and if Jeter's plan works it will still be a contender. The Marlins aren't trying to build one good team but more like a succession of good teams that evolves but continues to win as they evolve. 

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16 hours ago, rmc523 said:

And I have nothing against Alfaro - if the pitching numbers were close and just slightly leaning toward Wallach, I'd be fine with starting Alfaro, but they've been heavily skewed.

Does anyone have numbers for pitcher ERA with Wallach and numbers with Alfaro?

I looked around using baseball-reference pitcher splits. All-in-all it really is pitcher dependent. For example Pablo is noticeably better with Wallach. Alcantara is actually better with Alfaro. Yimi is always amazing. Sixto really only has 1 start with wallach and the game friday, so the sample is sort of small. If you go just by ERA in total Alfaro is better but almost half a run. But this begins to get into the issue with analyzing any marlins pitching stat in a wholistic way you start to include things like Yamamoto starts, or some of the Urena starts or honestly some of the other single a starts that did not go great.

This is actually a problem I have been facing when evaluating the team as a whole. There are so many at bats/starts/innings pitched by guys who just weren't ready for the majors that it's hard to get any sort of read on the team that is playing on the field. With Elieser Hernandez our young rotation is really really good, that's pretty much the extent that I have gotten. And the back of our bullpen, asside from Kintzler, has been pretty good as well. And Trevor Rogers overall has been a nice guy out of the pen. Other than that we are in a weird position where it's difficult to argue with Mattingly because there just isn't enough information to straight up say his decision was wrong (within reason). 

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1 hour ago, 97marlin said:

This is actually a problem I have been facing when evaluating the team as a whole. There are so many at bats/starts/innings pitched by guys who just weren't ready for the majors that it's hard to get any sort of read on the team that is playing on the field.

God yes this is so true. 

Give me the numbers for just the 28 guys on the active postseason roster and it's very different than the entire 61 man roster that played the season. 

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