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2022-2023 Offseason Thread


rmc523

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3 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

@MarlinsLou, @pollythewog your girl has lost her damn mind.

Regarding these Twitter comments, she definitely phrases things weird or the reporters omit further explanatory comments. She isn't wrong to suggest Garcia and Soler will be better next year - we'd all take the bet those guys produce more than, checks stats, negative .1 WAR - but if their hope is Garcia 2021 and Soler 2019/post-2021 is a guarantee next year and they need a minor tweak only that would be pretty foolish. Clearly they need "major" upgrades (especially in CF!!!) and even basic PR practice would say just state "we like our guys but we need to get a lot better. Major changes are needed to win 20 more games." Seems like a softball really, which frankly they may not be able to hit right now.

And this then swings back to - is that Kim thinking they might be good and it really is just the luck (something which many of you believe), or Bruce telegraphing we have saltines and tuna cans to hand out in free agency so she has to walk the company line and try and convey confidence in not suggesting a big move is coming when the shit sandwich is about to be served. I think this indicates the later personally as no one who has been in baseball for 30 years thinks this is a top 10 position core ready to contend. This is upcoming continued cheapness and all these dreams of Turner/Correa are in fact just that, dreams.

 

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3 hours ago, hovertical said:

So this means the payroll will rise along with the attendance! Right?

Bingo. Their ownership position is we'll make a better product when you give a shit. So the FO has the impossible job of making a consistent winner for 3-4 years with a bottom 5 payroll. Rays or bust.

They'll point to Sandy winning the cy young and say look people don't care and we have the cy young, while ignoring dudes like Okert, Scott, and Nance are getting save opps next year because the statcast is "pretty red looking." It'll make no sense at all except to Bruce's bank account.

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13 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I think the only person who has lost their mind here is you for believing you think I have any idea what you are talking about. Please refer to the last post you have ignored among the many - https://www.marlinsbaseball.com/topic/80052-marlins-prioritizing-high-contact-hitters-this-off-season/?do=findComment&comment=1831842&_rid=2785

Please do not link to other posts. (This is a joke, you're free to do so.)

 

15 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

if their hope is Garcia 2021 and Soler 2019/post-2021 is a guarantee next year and they need a minor tweak only that would be pretty foolish. Clearly they need "major" upgrades (especially in CF!!!) and even basic PR practice would say just state "we like our guys but we need to get a lot better. Major changes are needed to win 20 more games."

My fear is that this is exactly what they're thinking. "We just need to improve roster spots 22-26, the starters are fine, just bad luck and injuries."

I will say a healthy Jazz the entire year would change things a good bit, but, gotta build around him.

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Just now, Das Texan said:

I mean I dont know why that wouldnt be accurate.

I wouldnt count on him being available, but ya if he is healthy he SHOULD be in their plans.

Nobody said anything about accuracy. It's funny to think he might be healthy at this rate.

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I mean Madison Bumgarner was once an ace pitcher, so we should expect that to happen again.

Hell, Gary Sheffield is a borderline (probably should be in) hall of famer.  Think he might want another run with the Marlins?  

 

Reality is that who gives a fuck what a player has done at some point in their career.

 

For Soler that 48 home run season was an outlier (or its appeared to be so at this point).  

 

These two signings are going to hamstring this franchise in 2023.  They will probably be below average (again) and they have basically no trade value as a bonus.  So the Marlins are stuck with them on their roster.  Good times.

 

Might as well talk them up in an hope and prayer you can build up some type of either 

 

a. trade value

b. confidence of the player to not suck

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Just now, SilverBullet said:

You guys aren't giving her enough credit for the wording of that phrase. It's genius. Sixto absolutely will be a big part of the Marlins in 2023 if he's healthy.

Yeah I give her a lot of deserved crap, but on this one she was right. Accurate quote. One of her rare moments of competence. 

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2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

This was my optimistic hope, that she literally can't be this dumb and that she has to know better but just is really bad at hiding her true thoughts to the media... but every single time she opens her mouth she makes it more and more likely that she really believes all this crap.

It's one of two things. It's either a.) she is tempering expectations with the hope that fans get excited at the smallest move, or b.) she knows damn well the team isn't actually going to do anything of significance this offseason and doesn't want to insult the guys on the roster by essentially saying "lol you guys suck" when they ultimately just run it back.

There is no way she can honestly believe that an offense that just OPSed .658 isn't in need of a major upgrade.

I will say to be fair that Garcia has been an every-other-year player for quite a while now, so it's entirely possible he bounces back in 2023, and I do believe Soler is certainly better than he performed this year (this was by far his lowest OPS since 2017, and he only had 110 PA that season).

But even if those two do revert back to their career norms, this offense is still in need of a gigantic overhaul.

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43 minutes ago, Michael said:

Please do not link to other posts. (This is a joke, you're free to do so.)

 

My fear is that this is exactly what they're thinking. "We just need to improve roster spots 22-26, the starters are fine, just bad luck and injuries."

I will say a healthy Jazz the entire year would change things a good bit, but, gotta build around him.

It is actually upon your request I did so!

And yes this is the fear. The roster is probably 10 wins better, but that's still under .500. We'll see what they do.

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3 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

It is actually upon your request I did so!

And yes this is the fear. The roster is probably 10 wins better, but that's still under .500. We'll see what they do.

In my fantasy world where we sign Judge, Turner, and Correa, how many wins is that?

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7 minutes ago, Michael said:

In my fantasy world where we sign Judge, Turner, and Correa, how many wins is that?

I think you could conservatively add +15. Which I think gets the Marlins to the playoffs. I am assuming the 6 SP are kept, they keep Cooper for 1B, move Anderson and Wendle for RHP RP and to cut a few dollars, etc.

The sad thing here is payroll would be.... $175m? Which is STILL not top 10 in the league (would be 12th). That's how cheap Bruce is. And here we are BEGGING for $110m for next year (23rd).

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8 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I think you could conservatively add +15. Which I think gets the Marlins to the playoffs. I am assuming the 6 SP are kept, they keep Cooper for 1B, move Anderson and Wendle for RHP RP and to cut a few dollars, etc.

The sad thing here is payroll would be.... $175m? Which is STILL not top 10 in the league (would be 12th). That's how cheap Bruce is. And here we are BEGGING for $110m for next year (23rd).

I think in my scenario, we ride with Lewin for the defense at first. Coop is traded so Soler DHs. OF L-R of Sanchez, Judge, Bleday (or move Turner out to center? He played there as a rookie ... wouldn't be smart to ignore what he's done in the past). Keep Wendle as a utility infielder (or 3B).

6 SPs kept, yes.

Fortes starting catcher.

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2 minutes ago, Michael said:

I think in my scenario, we ride with Lewin for the defense at first. Coop is traded so Soler DHs. OF L-R of Sanchez, Judge, Bleday (or move Turner out to center? He played there as a rookie ... wouldn't be smart to ignore what he's done in the past). Keep Wendle as a utility infielder (or 3B).

6 SPs kept, yes.

Fortes starting catcher.

Any permutation works here if you add those 3 guys. With Jazz they'd have arguably the top guy or two at their position in 4 spots, and 5 if you include Sandy. Would be nice to run a top 12 payroll!

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16 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I think you could conservatively add +15. Which I think gets the Marlins to the playoffs. I am assuming the 6 SP are kept, they keep Cooper for 1B, move Anderson and Wendle for RHP RP and to cut a few dollars, etc.

The sad thing here is payroll would be.... $175m? Which is STILL not top 10 in the league (would be 12th). That's how cheap Bruce is. And here we are BEGGING for $110m for next year (23rd).

With this pitching staff, a lineup that includes Jazz/Judge/Turner/Correa is a 90-win team, health permitting. You're looking at +20 wins, at least.

Regardless, this would obviously never happen, but even if we add just a couple of big bats that don't even have to include Judge, this is a borderline playoff team. Which makes the constant lack of (legitimate) activity all the more frustrating.

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On that topic, when was the last time the Marlins signed one of the top-tier bats on the FA market and he actually performed well? Delgado? I guess Reyes was decent in the one year he was here (not even close to what he was in 2011 with the Mets but he was at least okay) but the Marlins sucked so we don't remember it.

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Eury moved up to # 2 overall prospect. FV65! Salas only other guy in top 100 (83) - https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2022-in-season-prospect-list/summary?sort=-1,1&pg=0

However it is misleading to lead with that because if you scroll down just a little...

Berry 102
Eder 113
Meyer 114
Cappe 115
Lewis 116

Farm isn't in as bad of a shape as some think. Seven guys are basically top 116, plus there is a lot to like after this (Watson, Mack, Fulton, etc.). It is concerning Berry and Watson, both really premium picks/lauded as top drop of the draft, are not higher but it is early. Cue, they can't identify bats lines, etc etc.
 

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1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

Eury moved up to # 2 overall prospect. FV65! Salas only other guy in top 100 (83) - https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2022-in-season-prospect-list/summary?sort=-1,1&pg=0

However it is misleading to lead with that because if you scroll down just a little...

Berry 102
Eder 113
Meyer 114
Cappe 115
Lewis 116

Farm isn't in as bad of a shape as some think. Seven guys are basically top 116, plus there is a lot to like after this (Watson, Mack, Fulton, etc.). It is concerning Berry and Watson, both really premium picks/lauded as top drop of the draft, are not higher but it is early. Cue, they can't identify bats lines, etc etc.
 

This also means that with only one top 80 prospect it'll be really hard to deal for someone like Reynolds.  The conversation will start with Eury for nearly any super premium bat like the Marlins sorely need.

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