3 hours ago, hovertical said:

The Marlins have a TON of guys, as listed above, that are 'usable' but yet at the same time - suck when the entire team is filled with them. 

Yea this is so true, and it especially seemed that way at the start of this season. There's seemingly many "good" players on the Marlins but for some reason the sum of the parts is less than the individuals, they just flat out suck as a team. It's a bad mix and is why I think a real aggressive shake up of the roster is needed. Moreso that the 2022 season really proved how bad the whole unit could be. 

46 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I agree with Rojas losing the clubhouse and no longer fitting in here. It's a shame he seemed to fall down off that pedestal so quickly and so hard.

But at the same time I don't think he leaves the team yet.

I can see his playing time diminishing if we get any upgrade at short and Rojas is still a nice enough guy that he would publicly say he's ok with a utility role for the betterment of the team and because X player is "such a great guy" etc etc. 

But I just think the front office will still value him as a supposed core member of the club. 

"Best" case scenario he's probably a late season DFA next year. 

I think I said on here before I can see Miggy Ro leaving with Don being out of the picture now.

43 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Yea this is so true, and it especially seemed that way at the start of this season. There's seemingly many "good" players on the Marlins but for some reason the sum of the parts is less than the individuals, they just flat out suck as a team. It's a bad mix and is why I think a real aggressive shake up of the roster is needed. Moreso that the 2022 season really proved how bad the whole unit could be. 

Yep. And again it's largely in part to zero flexibility in the lineup. Too much of the same type of guy. They do need a big shakeup but I fear that to them, that translates to...OOH ANOTHER COST SAVING REBUILD!

1 minute ago, Michael said:

I think I said on here before I can see Miggy Ro leaving with Don being out of the picture now.

I don't think it's a coincidence they both seemed to lose the clubhouse at the same time.

2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Oh fuck. It says the Marlins first have to deal with Wendle's contract situation. Putting that on Kim Ng's to do list will pretty much take up the entire offseason. 

There is probably a hard date this has to be done by, so dont worry about that. 

11 hours ago, Michael said:

I think I said on here before I can see Miggy Ro leaving with Don being out of the picture now.

Good point, I was thinking this too. Donnie was probably Rojas' biggest supporter.

9 hours ago, Das Texan said:

There is probably a hard date this has to be done by, so dont worry about that. 

Das Texan: "Killing jokes since 1873"

9 hours ago, Das Texan said:

There is probably a hard date this has to be done by, so dont worry about that. 

I'll show you a hard date. 😉

 

33 minutes ago, Michael said:

I'll show you a hard date. 😉

 

38 minutes ago, Michael said:

I'll show you a hard date. 😉

 

Did you freeze it or something for milkshake purposes? Watch out for pits!

45 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

13 hours ago, hovertical said:

Yep. And again it's largely in part to zero flexibility in the lineup. Too much of the same type of guy. They do need a big shakeup but I fear that to them, that translates to...OOH ANOTHER COST SAVING REBUILD!

I'd say it's a kick the can/move the goalpost to 2024 not a rebuild scenario, but yea same thing for a real shakeup. You can see a real discussion around Eury/Meyer/Eder/Fulton/Sixto(?) and Berry/Nunez, may all be "really" ready for 2024, with Fortes/Groshans/LeBlanc/OFers all getting another year of experience, with Luzardo/Cabrera/Garret/Rogers all building up their arms so they could average 165+ IP in 2024 versus likely closer to 140+ IP this upcoming year, so why not just trade all the secondary guys for fleets of FV45/40 prospects - Cooper, Berti, Wendle, Rojas, Anderson, Floro, Scott, and Bleier, move Pablo for "two good ones," bank money (highly important!), and circle 2024. Very Marlins thing to do right? Keep moving the goal posts and say well we still have years of service time so we'll be good in a year? We're a small market team (in a top 10 media market) so let's cry poverty still?  I don't think they'll do that, but still. That would be the "shake up" to me if they did do something. Just open space to sort out the roster and make commitments after another evaluation year. I just don't think it would be a full rebuild as Sandy/Jazz/most other SP are obviously going nowhere for years.

Frankly, they likely have at least 17/20 of their 40 man bats already. Maybe more if you want to put Cooper, Lewin, or Johnston at 1B here. I feel Cooper probably stays TBH and they find a SS and CF and that is literally the offensive offseason. Maybe that works though.

Fortes, Stallings, Henry
___
Jazz, Berti, Williams
____, Wendle/Rojas
Anderson/Wendle, Groshans, LeBlanc
Sanchez, DLC, Bleday
____
Garcia, Burdick
Soler, Jerar

I hope Rojas goes. Never got the love for him. Thought he was always overrated.

18 hours ago, hovertical said:

Rojas is curious to me.  He had a 2.5war this year but in watching the games - did he really feel like he was 2 1/2 wins above a replacement level player??  I can't see how as he was absolutely horrid at the plate despite 'leading' the team with a banner .236avg and zero power.  He has his usual great defense aside from that stretch where he seemed to get the yips so I'm guessing that played a large part into his overall replacement metrics?  I also felt he was kinda putrid in the clubhouse this year and just seemed like he 'didn't fit' any longer.  I think he needs to go - but again, i don't see them getting much more than some scrub prospect at best for him. 

I feel like Cooper is one of those guys who would absolutely slay it on a team like the Rays (just a hunch) - but trade with their F.O. at your own risk haha. 

The Marlins have a TON of guys, as listed above, that are 'usable' but yet at the same time - suck when the entire team is filled with them.  Frankly, I'm also pretty sick of seeing some of these retreads fail season over season. They're just so uninspiring and I think some of them need a change of scenery at this point too (Hello, Mr. Anderson). Get some fresh wheels in here, get rid of most of the base cloggers (aguilar was a good start) and let's FINALLY play to what should be the team's strength in the park which should be pitching, speed, contact, and defense.  No, Bruce and Kim, that doesn't mean bring back Hamilton. 

It's because we don't have enough heavy hitters in the lineup.....Jazz was our only one, and then he went down.  the "useful" guys are great/necessary, but they can't be the entirety of the roster/offense.

14 hours ago, hovertical said:

I don't think it's a coincidence they both seemed to lose the clubhouse at the same time.

For some reason, there didn't seem to be any sense of urgency at all.  Don was just there, and so was the team.

14 hours ago, Michael said:

I think I said on here before I can see Miggy Ro leaving with Don being out of the picture now.

I hope he does go. I'm not sure he wasn't a distraction with the team meeting and him taking his "captain" status too far. To me, you should have to be more than a glorified utility player to be a captain for any team. His production doesn't match his status within the organization. Further, what kind of captain is he if under his "leadership" you have back to back 90 loss seasons and in fighting in the locker room. #traderojasforbullpenhelp

49 minutes ago, Entendu said:

I hope Rojas goes. Never got the love for him. Thought he was always overrated.

Agreed.

24 minutes ago, Mavericksouth said:

I hope he does go. I'm not sure he wasn't a distraction with the team meeting and him taking his "captain" status too far. To me, you should have to be more than a glorified utility player to be a captain for any team. His production doesn't match his status within the organization. Further, what kind of captain is he if under his "leadership" you have back to back 90 loss seasons and in fighting in the locker room. #traderojasforbullpenhelp

Right. The captain should be one of the best players on the team. If you don't perform on the field, your status in the clubhouse should reflect that. It's one thing being a Lenny Harris type, who advises the younger players and serves as a mentor to a lot of people - *including the captain*. After this season, I'm not sure Rojas even fits that role.

The captain of this team is Sandy Alcantara.

Edited October 11, 20223 yr by Entendu

32 minutes ago, Mavericksouth said:

I hope he does go. I'm not sure he wasn't a distraction with the team meeting and him taking his "captain" status too far. To me, you should have to be more than a glorified utility player to be a captain for any team. His production doesn't match his status within the organization. Further, what kind of captain is he if under his "leadership" you have back to back 90 loss seasons and in fighting in the locker room. #traderojasforbullpenhelp

I don't disagree, but only nit here is Rojas *should* hit lefties harder than Wendle. And this team can't hit lefties. Rojas does have around 100 OPS points for his career over Wendle. So if our collective thought process is the team must upgrade SS longterm (right?), who is that guy and is Rojas or Wendle a better backup on the bench (noting Jazz likely could sit 15+ games a year against lefties as-is). I think it goes without saying at minimum 1 of them has to be the # 2 SS next year with what they have, as Groshans is likely a 3B. Maybe Rojas makes more sense here to keep over Wendle? Or, they could simply jettison Anderson, get a longterm SS upgrade, and the full bench is Wendle, Rojas, and Berti, with Groshans the "starter" but it's just a massive platoon in practice and Berti/Soler act as the backup OF.  I kind of feel that is going to happen TBH. At least one of those four must go. That's the bottom line.

They ultimately have a lot of choices here. Hopefully for their sake, they make the BIGGER moves first, so they don't end up moving some of these secondary guys, then whiff on all the bigger upgrades, and fall into another "sign Soler/keep Aguilar" desperation as there is literally nothing else they can do.

Pretty sure Rojas became captain when he had that peak good season or two coupled with his leadership during the pandemic. Also he was one of the first to step up and proclaim he was all in with this new ownership when there was a time that not everyone was doing so. But yea he obviously lost every aspect of that this year.

2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Pretty sure Rojas became captain when he had that peak good season or two coupled with his leadership during the pandemic. Also he was one of the first to step up and proclaim he was all in with this new ownership when there was a time that not everyone was doing so. But yea he obviously lost every aspect of that this year.

I used to like Rojas. When he came over he busted his ass and turned from a fringy guy into a solid regular who played A+ defense and guys listened to him. He literally got the best out of his skillset through hard ass work and I respect that.

This year though? Whether it's a fair assessment or not he just came across as being whiny and part of the old guard. His skills have started eroding at the plate a bit although having nobody hitting around him probably also made that worse. Either way, I think he either needs to understand and accept a bench role and turn captaincy over to some new blood or he needs to peace out. He'll catch on with a new team. No doubts there.

Edited October 11, 20223 yr by hovertical

Also should be said, there is no captain on the Marlins. That was something that was unofficially said and many ran with it and I'm sure the media would sometimes just use it as a descriptor for Miggy. So I don't think it's really a big deal if he's suddenly "not" the captain because he really never was. I'm sure he still works hard and is a leader to many in the clubhouse and that's good enough. No need to put him on a pedestal as if he was the one and only clubhouse leader. There can be many clubhouse leaders in any clubhouse.

1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

I don't disagree, but only nit here is Rojas *should* hit lefties harder than Wendle. And this team can't hit lefties. Rojas does have around 100 OPS points for his career over Wendle. So if our collective thought process is the team must upgrade SS longterm (right?), who is that guy and is Rojas or Wendle a better backup on the bench (noting Jazz likely could sit 15+ games a year against lefties as-is). I think it goes without saying at minimum 1 of them has to be the # 2 SS next year with what they have, as Groshans is likely a 3B. Maybe Rojas makes more sense here to keep over Wendle? Or, they could simply jettison Anderson, get a longterm SS upgrade, and the full bench is Wendle, Rojas, and Berti, with Groshans the "starter" but it's just a massive platoon in practice and Berti/Soler act as the backup OF.  I kind of feel that is going to happen TBH. At least one of those four must go. That's the bottom line.

They ultimately have a lot of choices here. Hopefully for their sake, they make the BIGGER moves first, so they don't end up moving some of these secondary guys, then whiff on all the bigger upgrades, and fall into another "sign Soler/keep Aguilar" desperation as there is literally nothing else they can do.

I hear that and I get what you're saying, but I just want all of the old Jeter/Mattingly stallworths gone. I think Rojas needs to go not just from a production standpoint but like I said, I think he is and was disruptive in the locker room with the younger (and more talented) guys with his preachy "I'm the captain, you need to be a professional" BS. If Sandy said it, okay people need to fall in line because he is one of the best in baseball....this guy? GTFOH Miguel.

What’s the deal with Baseball teams having a “captain?”

Isn’t the manager technically the “captain?”

I can understand on a NFL team or what not. But the Marlins don’t deserve to have a “captain”, they’re not the Yankees and Rojas is no Derek Jeter.

Let them get like maybe two winning seasons in a row, and then someone can be Captain Marlin, until then they need to accept that besides Sandy, Pablo and sometimes Jazz, they are just mediocre players and forget about that “captain” nonsense.

😂

3 hours ago, SirFishFan said:

What’s the deal with Baseball teams having a “captain?”

Isn’t the manager technically the “captain?”

I can understand on a NFL team or what not. But the Marlins don’t deserve to have a “captain”, they’re not the Yankees and Rojas is no Derek Jeter.

Let them get like maybe two winning seasons in a row, and then someone can be Captain Marlin, until then they need to accept that besides Sandy, Pablo and sometimes Jazz, they are just mediocre players and forget about that “captain” nonsense.

😂

It's bullshit because it's not official but I think it's ok for any team to have a captain if someone does hold that role organically. I don't think it's a case of being deserved. If there's a team leader that steps up and people actually follow him then yea that's the captain. I'm thinking of my own workplace and I can definitely think of a few people who would fit the role of a captain for us who isn't the actual boss even though none of us would call anyone the captain. 

50 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

It's bullshit because it's not official but I think it's ok for any team to have a captain if someone does hold that role organically. I don't think it's a case of being deserved. If there's a team leader that steps up and people actually follow him then yea that's the captain. I'm thinking of my own workplace and I can definitely think of a few people who would fit the role of a captain for us who isn't the actual boss even though none of us would call anyone the captain. 

 

Do it, coward.