52 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

A thought that's been on my mind the last couple of days about the trade deadline... many have said the Marlins should be buyers but don't bet the farm, don't mortgage the future, don't give up too much, etc etc because this team has too many holes and this playoff push isn't for sure...

And I just constantly keep thinking what farm and what future are these people talking about? There is almost literally zero untouchable prospects in this minor league system. If you wanna hang on to one guy make it Jake Eder but I would even listen on him. Beyond that, who the hell is there that the Marlins should be hanging on to?

In 2008 we had a lackluster deadline cuz we didn't wanna trade Stanton. There is nobody like that in this system and everyone knows it. This farm system is as disappointing as its been in forever. Its well known that we haven't been able to develop much and almost everything we have developed well has already been called up the majors. 

So what farm are we saving?

Trade anyone from the minors that you need to improve this team immediately. 

Sure you don't make any trades that will hurt the 2024 team because 2023 isn't guaranteed but as far as the farm there is almost nothing down there that we absolutely need for 2024. 

The Marlins need a playoff berth more than any other team in baseball. I do not care if we get eliminated in the Wild Card round. This franchise and this fan base and this community needs a winning season so badly, make sure we get that, and try your absolute hardest for a playoff berth no matter the result because a playoff berth would do so much.

 

I agree, all I’ve ever said on the subject was wondering if it would be worth it to trade a pitcher like Rogers or Garrett for a 2 month rental of Candelario. Because in that scenario, come 2024 Marlins don’t have Candelario or Rogers anymore. Now as far as trading players from the farm system, I personally couldn’t care less. Out of sight out of mind for me. Shit, if having to trade Eder, Edwards and Cabrera to the Cardinals for Arenado is what it takes, then do it.

32 minutes ago, mystikol87 said:

He’s having a great season, and I’m also leery. His contact % is up a good chunk, but he’s not hitting balls particularly hard by any of the fangraphs metrics. His expected wOBA is about .060 under his actual wOBA, so he may be due for a big regression.

That said, if they’re really trying to make a playoff run, they probably should go after him. I’m just expecting it to ultimately be an overpay given his desirability and likely regression.

I would consider letting go of Cabrera, Rodgers, or Eder as a centerpiece of our side. Sandy, Eury, Luzardo I have high confidence will be valuable starters in 2024 and beyond. I have faith they can fill the rest of the 2+ spots/innings from:

- free agents

- the 2 of Cabrera/Rodgers/Eder not dealt for Bellinger

- Garrett

- Max Meyer

- Fulton

- McCambley or the guy with a lot of toes

On the other hand, take a look at his babip this season vs his bad seasons. Seems like he's been very very unlucky in the past. I agree he's been lucky this year based on the babip, but it's not a crazy amount of luck. 

Not many hitters are over .300 in this day and age. To have two in your lineup would be insane.

With all that said, the best course of action is a trade for a controllable (if slightly less successful than Bellinger) hitter. It's a build now and for the future move. Give up any of our starters not named Sandy, Garrett or Jesus. Hell, give up two starters. Fix this damn offense already

Edited July 27, 20233 yr by Entendu

11 minutes ago, SirFishFan said:

I agree, all I’ve ever said on the subject was wondering if it would be worth it to trade a pitcher like Rogers or Garrett for a 2 month rental of Candelario. Because in that scenario, come 2024 Marlins don’t have Candelario or Rogers anymore. Now as far as trading players from the farm system, I personally couldn’t care less. Out of sight out of mind for me. Shit, if having to trade Eder, Edwards and Cabrera to the Cardinals for Arenado is what it takes, then do it.

Apparently Kim doesn't want to trade off the mlb team and none of our starting pitchers so Garrett and Rogers won't go. So if she wants to trade from the farm then she can trade anyone she pleases and it's good with me.

9 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Apparently Kim doesn't want to trade off the mlb team and none of our starting pitchers so Garrett and Rogers won't go. So if she wants to trade from the farm then she can trade anyone she pleases and it's good with me.

I think she'll back off that idea. It's the way things are this year. She already traded Floro.

I love the way this deadline is shaping and hope it's like this going forward. Trades between contenders trying to plug holes from their excess. Kim is smart. I like our odds in these kinds of trades.

 

1 hour ago, Michael said:

 

Reminds me of that time Arte Moreno put the Angels for sale and then decided not to sell them. 

Such an Angels thing to do. 😂

 

1 hour ago, SonOfJack said:

 

It's actually happening lmao. They're acquiring someone worse than Segura

1 hour ago, Entendu said:

It's actually happening lmao. They're acquiring someone worse than Segura

But he's been heating up! The back of his baseball card! Et cetera!

Yeah, no, thanks. If they give up next to nothing and cut Segura, then whatever. But other than that…

14 hours ago, Michael said:

And that would have brought us Manny Ramirez, too. Given what he did with LA the remainder of that season, Marlins probably make the playoffs that season.

.396/.489/.743 w/ 17 homers in 53 games. We had such a bad August that year [11-17]. Flip enough of those + a few more in September and that team would have made a run.

 

Ah well.

While this is true, the Marlins not wanting to trade Stanton for Manny is entirely understandable and I still agree with that decision in concept 15 years later. The true failure was not putting enough adequate pieces around Stanton during his time here.

15 hours ago, mystikol87 said:

Where are the good peripherals, honest question? He has 6 strikeouts per 9 innings this year…

I have no idea. Apparently they like his fastball.

But I was speaking more in general and less about Lopez specifically.

Edited July 27, 20233 yr by Valid

14 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

A thought that's been on my mind the last couple of days about the trade deadline... many have said the Marlins should be buyers but don't bet the farm, don't mortgage the future, don't give up too much, etc etc because this team has too many holes and this playoff push isn't for sure...

And I just constantly keep thinking what farm and what future are these people talking about? There is almost literally zero untouchable prospects in this minor league system. If you wanna hang on to one guy make it Jake Eder but I would even listen on him. Beyond that, who the hell is there that the Marlins should be hanging on to?

In 2008 we had a lackluster deadline cuz we didn't wanna trade Stanton. There is nobody like that in this system and everyone knows it. This farm system is as disappointing as its been in forever. Its well known that we haven't been able to develop much and almost everything we have developed well has already been called up the majors. 

So what farm are we saving?

Trade anyone from the minors that you need to improve this team immediately. 

Sure you don't make any trades that will hurt the 2024 team because 2023 isn't guaranteed but as far as the farm there is almost nothing down there that we absolutely need for 2024. 

The Marlins need a playoff berth more than any other team in baseball. I do not care if we get eliminated in the Wild Card round. This franchise and this fan base and this community needs a winning season so badly, make sure we get that, and try your absolute hardest for a playoff berth no matter the result because a playoff berth would do so much.

 

To be fair, I don't think anyone here is saying we should save the farm system. I think the concern is more that we shouldn't trade someone like Braxton Garrett for a rental.

4 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

 

I’ll take Anderson any day.. if the Marlins also get rid of Segura and put Wendle at 3rd where he belongs instead of SS. Anderson is one of those Avi type players who had a great season in 2019 batting .335 with 18 HR but then is fizzling this year. Also he has been pretty consistent above .300 hitter and above .750 OPS for the past four seasons prior to this one. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs. Could be a gamble, but if it gets Segura out of the lineup then I’m all for it. However, if it just keeps Segura at 3rd than just forget it. 😢

I'd like to acquire Anderson personally if we can buy low on him. If they expect to get a return based on the previous success, they can fuck off.

Anderson is a terrible fielder....so definitely buy low.  Its not like Joey Wendle is a great player or something.

If they acquire Anderson and move Wendle to third, that will really piss me off, because Wendle is not that great either. Third base needs a REAL improvement, not Joey fucking Swing at my ankles Wendle.

1 hour ago, Valid said:

While this is true, the Marlins not wanting to trade Stanton for Manny is entirely understandable and I still agree with that decision in concept 15 years later. The true failure was not putting enough adequate pieces around Stanton during his time here.

Also reasonable.

Going back though ... would you want a guaranteed playoff run or an 18 year old prospect in Low A? Lol

19 hours ago, Valid said:

If they're going to be "buyers" then they better be actual buyers and acquire legitimately productive players; not fringe guys with good peripherals who might be good someday.

I agree.

1 hour ago, Michael said:

Also reasonable.

Going back though ... would you want a guaranteed playoff run or an 18 year old prospect in Low A? Lol

We all have PTSD after losing Cheerios

3 hours ago, Michael said:

Also reasonable.

Going back though ... would you want a guaranteed playoff run or an 18 year old prospect in Low A? Lol

I'm not sure it would have been guaranteed, though. While I do think the Marlins would have made the playoffs in 2008 had they traded for Manny, there was also a chance they wouldn't have (remember: that bullpen had major issues), and if they didn't win the WS, then they would have just traded a generational prospect for an essential rental.

Now the difference here, as @SilverBullet said, is that there is absolutely no one in this current farm system who is even remotely close to Stanton, so I have no problem moving anyone in the system for an established star. What I don't want to do is move someone like Garrett or Rogers for a decent player who is only going to be here for a couple of months.

Ironically, as great as Stanton was, what would the Marlins have lost out on if he was traded in 08? Sure there were amazing moments for a fan watching but Stanton didn't bring us any on field success and it's not like he was traded for something worth a damn either so in hindsight we might have been ok with just trading him for a 2008 playoff spot. 

6 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Ironically, as great as Stanton was, what would the Marlins have lost out on if he was traded in 08? Sure there were amazing moments for a fan watching but Stanton didn't bring us any on field success and it's not like he was traded for something worth a damn either so in hindsight we might have been ok with just trading him for a 2008 playoff spot. 

To be fair, this was more due to the ineptitude of the front office of not putting the appropriate talent around him all those years. Yeah we had Yelich and Ozuna but that was basically it.

As far as him getting traded for nothing in 2017, again, that was the FO's fault. The dude was coming off of one of the greatest runs in MLB history, was still in his 20s and we got squat for him. I understand Stanton kind of handicapped them by giving them a short list of teams, but the FO should have at least been able to salvage something for him.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but I still stand by the decision in concept not to trade him for Manny in 2008.

1 hour ago, Valid said:

To be fair, this was more due to the ineptitude of the front office of not putting the appropriate talent around him all those years. Yeah we had Yelich and Ozuna but that was basically it.

As far as him getting traded for nothing in 2017, again, that was the FO's fault. The dude was coming off of one of the greatest runs in MLB history, was still in his 20s and we got squat for him. I understand Stanton kind of handicapped them by giving them a short list of teams, but the FO should have at least been able to salvage something for him.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but I still stand by the decision in concept not to trade him for Manny in 2008.

Oh yeah nothing against Stanton at all.

And I remember being all for trading him in 08 cuz I was like why would we let one minor leaguer hold us back from a playoff spot cuz I was convinced Manny would have gotten us there.

But it was just an observation that in hindsight we didn't get much outside of the enjoyment of watching Stanton play.

Man it's so crazy that he didn't play on a single winning team here. 2023 has made me realize just how bad most Marlins teams really were. So many years that my mind told me "man that was a great team" and yet, they were almost all pretty bad.