Stag5

"These are the 2005 First Place in the NL East Florida Marlins. Now shut the f*** up and enjoy tomorrow's game." -- Jaunky, May 29th Well, the team is 2-9 (and now the Last Place in the NL East Florida Marlins) since Jaunky told the forum to shut up. Now that Loria has chimed in and said changes are needed will he be told to shut up too? As my point was in that thread a forum such as this serves as a sounding board for many opinions and in this case many of the fans were on to something. We need to keep this up, keep the debate alive and push back this notion that negativity is not welcome until a select few(in their own mind at least) decide it's the right time. So to all those that posted about Bill Robinson, Al Leiter, Perisho, Bump, etc. you were proven not to be negative but to be correct and now management is on board and we may start to see the changes we have been hoping for.

Jack's changes mean Castillo bats 6th, Delgado and Cabrera flip fop in the order and Lo Duca gets a new spot in the order. Woo Hoo.

Some very good points brought up in this thread. Personally, I would have gone Todd Jones 9th, Mota 10th, Mecir 11th and then Reidling, Bump, etc. I want to use my BEST first and save my pitchers capable of more than 1 inning for the later innings. Reidling would have been at bat the following inning so he would have been taken out for a pinch hitter. That means the game was in the hands of Travis Smith. I say that because if you bring in Mota then ya gotta ask, why not Mota in the 9th or 10th? On the offensive side he burned Lowell and his PR Juan Pierre in the same inning. Pierre has been slumping but he is worthwhile pinch hitter and/or better served to PR from 2nd or 3rd base. If Jack was willing to burn his bench then he must be thinking NOW is the time to win....but his bullpen selections were not for NOW since Jones and Mota never pitched. 2 2/3 innings and he burns 4 pitchers, two of which are out long men. I just don't get it. Once again Jack McKeon mis-manages the team into a loss.

Let's try: 2B Castillo SS Gonzalez 3B Cabrera 1B Delgado CA Lo Duca LF Dillon RF Conine/Encarnacion CF Pierre/Encarnacion

In the meantime I'd like to see a lineup change for tomorrow: 2B Castillo SS Gonzalez - 280+ average deserves a boost from the 8 hole 3B Cabrera 1B Delgado RF Conine CA Lo Duca LF Dillon CF Pierre - Ahead of the pitcher he will see many more fastballs. Dillon or Lo Duca # 2 and Gonzalez # 6 is also worth a shot. Bottom line is a 280 hitter in front of a pitcher while we have a 250ish hitter ahead of Cabrera and Delgado doesn't make much sense when we are trying to scrape across more than 1-2 runs a game.

Enough with the negativity for now..... I don't want to hear "Fire so and so..." or "we suck". Bla bla bla! Instead, I want to see who believes in our Fish. Because I do. So we're having a rough time. It hurts, but it happens. Remember, it's not over yet. We have a long way to go! You gotta believe! Who's with me? BELIEVE! 792589[/snapback] MiRi, part of being a baseball fan is enjoying the ups and downs, the second guessing, the post game analysis as well as the various lineup and trade scenerios. If baseball to you is simply watching the game and then putting on rose colored glasses until the next game that's fine but it's not that way for many people on this board. Fantasy sports have become as huge as they have because people like to be manager and GM at all times. Yes we over react. No it's not life and death. But why do we have so many people on this board telling others what they shouldn't say? Tellya what. You share your views and people will debate them if they'd like. And in return people will share their views and you may debate them if you wish....or not. But crying for no-debate sort of negates the reason for a forum such as this one. Good Night!

Nate Bump in May Innings Pitched: 14 Hits Allowed: 21 Earned Runs: 8 ERA: 5.14 WHIP: 1.64 0-1 and 1 HOLD in 13 appearanced this month. Nate Bump is a back of the pen pitcher that should be brought in when we are behind or for long relief. As for someone mentioned Mecir. In the month of May of you take away his one bad appearance he has given up 1 run in 10 innings. He has 4 holds, 1 win and 2 blowsn saves. One was his bad game and the other was a game in which he did not allow an earned run.

Quilvio Veres Chuck Carr Rob Nenn Gary Sheffield

Leiter critical outing today. Another bad outing and he has to be out of the rotation. Valdez still re-habbing (and he was never considered that great.) Mota coming on but it will take weeks for him to get up to his potential. Alfonseca still re-habbing (takes longer with six fingers.) Spooney may be gone for the Season. Reidling looks awful. Bump is all promise unrealized. Mecir and Perisho are band-aids. Todd Jones has risen to the occasion. Not lights out but knows how to pitch and has the right mentality. Include Moehler there! We have at least two solid Minors who may be ready (but not for up and down frequent flyer miles.) Herges and Graves are among the savvy veterans available. I don't care if it's only June. We need major surgery, not first-aid (wounding our Minors arms and psyche.) Get Real FO. Now! 788756[/snapback] Batters with runners in scoring position have an average against Bump of .316 this season. Scoring position and 2 outs, .375. Runners on .324. Pitches 1-15 .304. Bump is a long reliever or starter possibly, but he is horrible in critical situations. And btw, in May he had an ERA of 4.50 and an average against of .346. In 12 innings he had no walks which is great, but there were 18 hits. He is easily hittable I guess. That's the games I am watching.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...notes_0527.html http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...ll/11749841.htm Come on Jaunky, tell Beinfest to SHUT UP!! 785739[/snapback] Beinfest is commenting based on facts other than, "man i shouldnt have signed leiter, he sucks." 785743[/snapback] Cangelosi, Agreed. Messages of he sucks, they suck, etc without even an attempt of sounding civilized is immauture and old. My point is simply that the discussion of making a move with Leiter was fair...some in this forum disagree with that. The old, agree with me fine, disagree and you should shutup. I chimed in not because someone got all over me...I never commented on the issue. I'm just tired of a few thinking their opinion is so highly weighted that no one else should even speak. Trust me, I know from our previous debates that you are open to debates on many issues. I just thought the header and theme of the original post was very much ego-driven and out of line.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...notes_0527.html http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...ll/11749841.htm Come on Jaunky, tell Beinfest to SHUT UP!!

I for one do not dislike Leiter. To be honest I'd hate for this to be the way Leiter goes out. He has had a great career and if he can be a capable # 5 for us he may not be worth the money but he could help this team to a championship. But that is just it....is he the man? Why is Jack sticking with Easley? Well, it gioves Castillo more time but he is also going with the hot hand. Why did Aguila get sent down and not Dillon? Hot hand. Why is Juan E. starting over Conine? Jack thinks Juan gives us a better chance to win. I am not saying remove Leiter. I am saying it is a valid debate and not crazy by any means. Hey, let's see what Frank Castillo and Bazardo can do. If they do well, do you stick with Leiter just because he is a good guy? Naaah. IMO, Leiter has to be better than Castillo, Bazardo and later on Valdez to stay in the rotation.

He didn't start the '97 off well either? That was 8 years ago. He is now 40 years old. Leiter has an ERA of 8.06 in May. In 9 starts this season he has 2 that qualify as quality starts. Three games (33%) he has not made it through 5 innings. He is averaging 4.77 innings per start. He is averaging 1.69 runners per inning, 1.88 in May. Only Jennings, Wright and Wilson have higher ERA's in the NL and two of those guys pitch in Coors, the other has an arm injury and pitches in Cincy. I agree that people that throw players over the edge on a whim are wrong, but just as wrong are people that won't face facts. Will Leiter turn it around? I guess he could. I don't think he will. But it is a valid discussion to ask if a change needs to be made. Fact is most of you were all over Darren Oliver when he had similar problems. Shame on all of you that think a post telling members to shut up is awesome. I guess that's what ya want though so I leave you with this....Shove It!

The closer is Mota. Just as Lowell is our 3B, not Dillon and Castillo is our 2B, not Easley. If Mota fails I believe Jones will take over quickly, but Mota wants to be a closer and the Marlins want Mota to be a closer.

I guess he should praise the Marlins and LoDuca should rag on the Dodgers, right?

I think we have some players that may have dabbled. Better check the DL list for a trio of relievers. :whistle The trouble years for the Marlins was 1998/1999. Bonilla, Sheff, Floyd, Millar, Renteria, Preston, Darensburg, Dempster, Edmondson, Mantei, Jay Powell...shall I go on? Someone ask John Boles what issue the players felt he could not relate to having never payed the game. Someone ask John Boles about the arms he was trying to save.

MORDY! MORDY! MORDY!

EDIT: And as I write this, Chad Fox mowes down the Pirates with almost unhittable sliders...man, it'd be nice to have him back... 745064[/snapback] After entering a 10-3 game, Chad Fox walked two and gave up a three-run homer to Adam Dunn before leaving with an arm injury tonight. ---This is why Chad Fox was not brought back.

Running through a stop fine should equal a fine. It has nothing to do with being safe or out, it has to do with following the rules. I wonder how many of you when you run a business and give your workers orders will be as happy when they disobey your orders...no matter the results. Its the first time it happened and he said he didn't see the stop sign....so be it. But it better not happen again

You people are so predictable. We win = praise for all and not much in terms of exctiement. We lose = the end of mankind. Everyone must be fired. Everything is the problem. We have played 11 games. We have 151 left. Grow up and realize its a damn marathon, not a sprint. 744774[/snapback] Das, so any opinions fans had during the 2004 season and headed into this season are out the window because a new season started? These issues are not new. I am not getting political here but it's like saying someone cannot get on George Bush for (pick your issue) because 2005 started his 2nd term. So grow up and realize that just because someone has an opposing opinion does not mean they think the world is coming to an end. Not everyone has to agree with you...life will still be okay....it's just fan's opinions....don't take it so personal. :thumbup 744841[/snapback] what the hell is this? do you think I'm talking about you and your constant opinions about needing to fire jack? see thats the point, i name no names, and you automatically think i'm talking about you. good times. 744865[/snapback] Das, are you reading invisible ink? Where did I say you were referring to me? I said that fans have opinions....that consists of me, yes...and you...and everyone else. I appreciate that you associate me with a particular topic but let's not start putting words in my mouth. My point is simply that McKeon, Robinson, the slumps, etc...these are not new issues even though the season may young. These are issues held over from last season. Because fans bring them up and are concerned does not mean they think the world is coming to an end. It simply means it is an issue, a topic they have an opinion about and want to discuss.

You people are so predictable. We win = praise for all and not much in terms of exctiement. We lose = the end of mankind. Everyone must be fired. Everything is the problem. We have played 11 games. We have 151 left. Grow up and realize its a damn marathon, not a sprint. 744774[/snapback] Das, so any opinions fans had during the 2004 season and headed into this season are out the window because a new season started? These issues are not new. I am not getting political here but it's like saying someone cannot get on George Bush for (pick your issue) because 2005 started his 2nd term. So grow up and realize that just because someone has an opposing opinion does not mean they think the world is coming to an end. Not everyone has to agree with you...life will still be okay....it's just fan's opinions....don't take it so personal. :thumbup

Shadow, tell the gang what will happen before too long..... McKeon is loved in the organization but his daily excuses are not going to fly too long.

Princess

Milwaukee and Toronto are leading their respective divisions and you are all worried because we can?t hit or whatever lame reason you can find. So relax and enjoy the show, this team will come around, and when it does you will all pee your silly little pants Either way ... how are the marlins doing? :shifty 739327[/snapback] Catch, again many here are not bitching about a 3-4 record. They are complaining about how the Marlins are playing the game...and poor execution. We generate no runs...we wait for the big inning...we don't move runners....we don't hit behind runners...we don't hit and run....It's not about wins and losses.

someone pass the hemlet. look, firing jack at this point is just stupid. the only thing jack should be faulted for is his undying loyalty to the crap that is lenny harris. bill robinson is not a miracle worker. you expect luis castillo and mike lowell to do something at the plate. miguel cabrera is waht he is, a lazy player in the field with a stellar bat. only he can change that. we are a better team than last year. our offense is greatly inconsistent right now, once we figure that out, we will bust out. 739282[/snapback] Das, I do not blame Robinson for the teams lack of hitting. The job of batting coach is not to teachj players to hit. It is their job to be their eyes and ears and to help adjust which the tam does poorly. Lowell, Gonzalez slumps each year....as bad as can be right? What are they doing differently? That is Robinsons job. How about teaching the fundementals of the game since they obviously are unaware....hitting behind runners....moving runners over with smart outs. Taking pitches the other way. Any of these happening? The results say no.