BafflingBeerman

Good to see, though we are still last in overall attendance, no? Maybe the stadium deal got some more fans to the stadium, to catch up on future "history."

Dont make excuses for our pitchers, about being out of gas etc. Volstad has been nothing this season. Every teams pitchers have thrown the same innings. So none of that out of gas crap! Our pitching has been GARBAGE this season! Not following the team for another season I see. Try looking at his gamelog and you'll see lots of good starts in April May, June still reasonable innings but runs up, gets through July in good shape and then his innings evaporate and runs escalate. He's a kid, 22 and in his second season in the bigs. Sheesh. http://florida.marli...8690&statType=2 Interesting to see his ERA rise each month except for July. I think that may be a sign of scouting reports/repeat starts against teams allowing the other team to look for certain pitches from Volstad. Maybe a lack of adjustment? Volstad has potential, and I think last season showed that. The question is now whether or not he can adjust and constantly adjust during the season. And do we allow him to take his lumps up here, when we have two other potential starters that may need to take their lumps as well. Between Volstad, West, and Miller, I'd much rather have Volstad up here than the other two.

All for a minor league deal, where he works on some stuff and provides some depth. As much as I would like a veteran in the rotation, I would like one who is able to provide some consistent wins.

Chris Volstad needs to do some serious work this offseason. He has been dreadful. He's out of gas, they're all out of gas. That's why Fredi is pitching them the absolute minimum he can get away with in hopes somehow they can make it into October. I suspect he hoped some of the minor league guys could come in and give guys a rest but the Suns keep going in the playoffs and their guys keep building up their own innings and anyone worth bringing up from AAA is already here. One of two things will be true next spring. Volstad I believe will bounce back as good or better than ever, or he's pretty much one and done. I find that a stretch. He has too much talent not to roar back in 2010. Volstad has been average or a little worse the entire season. All our pitchers, save for JJ, have been inconsistent. Yes, even Ricky, with his April/May, can't ignore that. Ricky was the same way last year, so it will be interesting to see how he pitches around that time next year. It is safe to say that our young pitching is not living up to their hype, and if we going to go into next season hoping for bounce backs for at least 3 spots in our rotation (not including Nolasco or JJ), then we will be in trouble. Above all else, we need another consistent arm. Especially if Ricky struggles out of the gate again.

I would mather rather have him start off in AAA, prove he can be consistant, then call him up, then to have him start off with us already in the rotation. I know he is a key player, moneywise and perception wise, but better he is in an environment where he can learn without repercussions than one in which he can't.

We need a mentality change. We need to swing a Delmon Young for Garza-like deal somehow. Something that might surprise people and may be high risk but also high reward. Fact of the matter is, we have very little dependable starting pitching and even as amazing as JJ is and has been, he is starting to feel the pressure of having to carry the load by himself and has had some un-JJ like performances because of it. And most of the team mirrors JJ in that the strain of a long season and the pressure of trying to stay in the playoff hunt really wears on them. And no matter how they got there, every Marlins team since 2004 has looked the exact same way down the stretch run. My dream will never happen though because the team is playing to win 5 years down the line and winning now is merely coincidental. Loria, Beinfest, Samson & co. are just biding their time until the new stadium and making small moves (like the Nick Johnson trade) to give the team and fans the impression of caring. I can understand the economics of it all, but it is still frustrating to realize that my favorite organization isn't really playing to win and isn't going to make a single deal that would send out a piece of future talent. The Beinfest model is to keep players around, trading some of the young talent for whatever you can get (like the Jacobs & Willingham deals) and then try to patch up the holes with buy-lows and hoping they work out. I don't entirely disagree with this model, as obviously you can't let talent walk for practically nothing in FA, but over recent years I've disagreed with the guys they've chosen to trade. We've always gotten rid of the guy who had done the least to help the team over the last year instead of trying to package a guy whose trade value is high. The Cabrera trade was closest to what I was talking about, but that seemed more like a mandated "we need to trade Cabrera for the best we can get" deal and not some sort of creative deal with the ultimate goal of bettering this franchise on the field. I'm talking about a deal where we package an up and comer, like a Dan Uggla (a year or two ago) or a Chris Coghlan this year, and try and get a significant return. Some discussed a possible Cantu deal like that and while I strongly disagree with the return (Jonathan Sanchez, he of the no-hitter and poor pitching other than that), it is more along of the lines of what we would need. Again, if we were really going to try and win, I think we would need to find some kind of creative way to bring in some good talent, like a talented young pitcher, while taking a gamble that we could find a way to replace whoever we sent out. But that is not going to happen because the FO would rather strip away Cantu, Uggla, Ross, and Hermida once piece at a time (for God knows what) than try and trade a younger guy (like CC) or even a Maybin and use them to bring in something this team needs even more than them. That wasn't a big trade? Seriously, for those being critical...what else did you want? Did you want the front office to trade 1 of Stanton/Morrison/Maybin + others and overpay for a closer? They tried to get starters like Penny off waivers...it didn't happen; that's not the FO's fault. It was a decision Penny made, and he chose the Giants (can't say I blame him, either). Yeah, for me, personally, I don't get the mindset that the Johnson deal was an empty suit. For one, that is insulting to us the fans, as if any old trade would appease us. Two, did Johnson not fill a hole we were all talking about? It wasn't a trade for a trade sakes because we ::gasp:: actually filled a need. Third, the deal came out of nowhere, with very little rumor about it before trade deadline. While some may spin that as "Oh, the Marlins just wanted to get in the news about a trade to satisfy its fanbase and took it," I see it as "This deal popped up, the FO saw we could use it, and pulled the trigger, with no deeper thought than that." Who else there could we have realistically got and weren't pursuing? Key word there, pursuing. We were in rumors for some bullpen arms, but couldn't close the deal. That's not indicative one way or the other about whether or not the FO wants to win now. Sometimes the price is steep no matter the endgoal.

We aren't making the playoffs with Nunez as closer and probably not with Lindstrom. But given that Nunez has displayed a key thing that you absolutely can't have in a closer (giving up the home run at a constant rate) it's not going to do us well to keep him there anyway. Now when does the FO learn that you have to go out and spend a litte $$$ to get a closer ? You just can't plug in young players there very often and have it work. Next year if we see the same crappy bullpen, don't expect the season to end any differently. 32 for 37... Also, until this year, we have spent some money at getting reclaimation (i.e. not youngin's) for our closer roles: Gregg, Jones, etc.

For once, I was questionining Fredi (probably about the wrong thing, knowing my luck). Seeing that Pinto seemed to lose control after getting two outs, while allow him to walk the bases loaded? After Dukes got on and whatshisname getting that single, why not go to the BP then? The tying run is not in scoring position and you can bring in a guy in a little less pressure situation than bases loaded.

he's not lying. i don't know why you people are getting all butthurt about it. you would think after all these years of other fans/players/broadcasters poking fun at marlins attendance that fans would have thick skin. Again, that's not the problem. The problem is with the lack of a professional courtesy from Penny. You don't bash another team's fanbase like that. Point. Especially because we were the team who let him start his MLB career. Regardless of what's true and what's not, it's respect. Add in that we were pursuing him, it was like Penny went out of his way to burn a bridge. Maybe not with the organization, but with the people who may support him. I don't have a problem with former players who are in the middle of their contracts elsewhere or have priced themselves out of contracts with us so they have little chance of returning to say these things. I don't like it, but it is reality, so I can't argue. It is when people still on the team (as the case was with Burnett) or had a chance to return here (like Penny) that I take exception, because here is an organization/setting that is employing you or willing to employ you and you are trashing them pretty much to their face. I still like Penny though. It made more sense to go to SF as they have a better shot at the postseason that us. I just wish he used a little more tact (as others have said) when asked why he didn't want to come here (again, he could have boosted SF for that question, instead on slagging us).

Dick. Maybe so ... but he ain't lying. Regardless, he shouldn't diss the team's fanbase publicly like that. Especially a fan base that supported you during a WS run and your possible return here. Agreed. This wasn't a former players who had no chance of coming back here. This was a guy we were pursuing, and some said, very close to signing. I know it is disheartening for some players to come here due to the smaller stadium fan base, but you don't diss it, or word it, they way Penny did. He is implicitly saying that the Marlins are below him, not due to anything the organization can directly control, but due to something that us, Joe Q. Public does. And he "punishes" the organization by pointing that out. He could have said it more politely as in "I'd rather go to SF because there is more excitement there." Or "I enjoyed playing in their stadium." Pump up the Giants, not bash the Marlins. Besides, he saw in 2003 that fans will come out if the Fish win. And isn't that why we wanted him?

I can't say that I blame him. Don't get me wrong, I know very well the reasons why we don't draw well right now, but it has to be somewhat depressing for the players to come out and play in front of a few thousand people in a huge stadium every night. Heck, sometimes it is depressing to be in that environment as a fan. As a player, I'd imagine that it would be more fun to play in front of 40,000 every game. I am sure it is more fun. But you don't say it, or you don't phrase it the way Penny did, in my opinion. It is like a supplier saying to a newspaper they love providing goods to Company A over B, because B's loading area is too small. Maybe it is valid, but you don't slag on Company B in public, especially about something the actual person being interviewed (in this case, Penny) has little control over/isn't being asked to improve. Penny could have said he didn't want to go to Florida because they aren't as close as he would have liked, or they don't have a playoff atmosphere (a more kinder way of saying no fans).

Kinda funny that Uggla just had a quote the other day about players remaining calm, then he remarks about Hanley seem to belie some frustration (whether or not it is towards Hanley or the losing, only Uggla knows). The stituation will blow over, Uggla is probably gone this off-season (though this won't affect that either way). Though Hanley does need to mature maybe a step or two more. When the rest of the Class of 06 fall to the wayside, Hanley won't have the same sort of little shielding he has now, in terms of players like Uggla in that they are also somewhat recognizable to the general media. JJ is getting there, but for a few seasons, Hanley may be the only media draw.

There was a rumor that Penny almost went to one of his former teams, the Florida Marlins, rather than the Giants but he says that was never close to happening. "Honestly, I wasn't going to Florida," he said. "I want to play in front of some fans." Ouch. Well then, I am now somewhat glad he didn't come here. It's one thing if he had beef with the FO, a whole nother thing if he has issues with us, the fans. Not like we didn't support him in 2003.

I think what Uggla was trying to say is that they aren't panicking. But there is a difference between urgency and panicking, in my opinion. Urgency may mean trying to scrap across one run while panicking may mean swinging for the fences to get two runs in. Difference between seeing the significance of the little things versus trying to go big. I don't think the Marlins are playing panicked, but I haven't payed close enough difference to see if they are playing with urgency. Seems like they are playing the same what they have been all year, which may or may not cut it. I don't expect a total change in philosophy if you are in the playoff race in September, just a little more focus and little more momentum building events, if that makes sense.

Haven't voted yet, as I would need to see the price of the selections first. I would also like to sign at least one free agent SP. I think it is clear that we can't throw out all these young and unproven pitchers at the same time and hope they all click.

We have a clear track record of fixing veteran pitchers careers. We have managers that are specifically trained to coach youngsters. Our coaching staff can do wonders with a pitcher like Penny whose a veteran and has had a taste of success before. Before 2003 Penny was just a thrower, we made him a pitcher. Today Penny again is a thrower, we can make him come out of the gates at Land Shark Stadium pitching for US again. You sound like you don't want him to sign with us. :whistle Except there's really no guarantee that we would be able to fix him in the short month or so we would have him, plus the postseason. Now, if he was coming here at the beginning of the season, then it would make more sense that one would think we could fix him. He and we would have spring training and the early season to fix him, if he needed fixing. But you don't want a pitcher you feel needs fixing when you are pushing for a playoff spot. So if the FO was thinking they could get him and fix him, that would be a fool's errand, because how many starts do you give him to be fixed? Why would you want a "broken" pitcher? We have plenty of pitchers in the minors that need "fixing." I used fixing a lot in the paragraph. From Penny's perspective, it would look better for his future if he had some role in a playoff contender/playoffs. Since the Giants are closer, he could be very well thinking he will get extra opportunities to show off his skills due to the postseason. That being said, I would have liked Penny just for the extra push of having a pitcher with experience gives us. He may only be a 4th/5th spot guy now, but we really don't have anyone outside of JJ and sometimes Ricky to rely on.

Next year, I hope we sign one or two veteran starting pitchers, who don't have to be spectacular, just consistent. I don't know if Wiley is to blame, or injuries, or what have you, but it is clear to me that our pitching is not as great as we think it is. JJ is the only really reliable guy for an entire season. So far Ricky has been subpar in the first few months of a season (this year and last), Volstad had a good season last year, but has shown this year a failure to adjust, West is still young but you don't want to throw him into a Miller situation, and Miller is Miller. Anibal is still up in the air, but you can't lean on him due to his injuries. So, we need at least one veteran pitcher next year to anchor the rotation. Preferably one that can fill the 3 slot, but can also live with being the 5th guy. We need as close to sure things in the rotation, so this carousel of pitching stops. You may also want to get another veteran to fill another spot, leaving one for "experience" for a guy like Volstad, and you can also move that second vet to the bullpen if you want to open another spot. Now, I don't know the market for these guys, I am not expecting nor wanting a high end starter. Just someone who you can look at their career numbers and know what to expect. Someone other than JJ who is stable and gives you an excellent chance at a win, season long.

I would love for Penny to come back, if only to anchor the back of the rotation. One thought: I know he was involved in the Batboy milk incident a few years back. Not that it was a serious offense, but is there any possibility that he or the FO may be soured (no pun intended) on each other after that?

Good. We can show off the stadium, and the fact that the All-Star will be played "locally" may drive more fans out to the ballpark during the season to see their hometown heroes and vote for them.

When I read that Smoltz was released I was thinking how nice it would be if the Marlins picked him up. Though, he is struggling this year, but then again our 4th/5th starter situation is so up in the air, no matter who we place in there, we can't be more than maybe 75% confident. West was average when he was called up, and he may be improving, but he is still unproven. Smoltz is the opposite, he's been proven as a solid starter/reliever, but since surgery, has been struggling. I think the 4th/5th starter situation will be a revolving door type of deal till the end of the season, unfortunately. I would like to see the Fish go after a proven starter in the off-season (as I have said repeatedly).

Its only a bigger deal than it is because it IS the Cubs... and it just lends creedence to the whole curse thing... thats basically it. If that happens in a Mariners-A's game in mid-May in Oakland... nobody mentions it... period. It is certainly a bigger deal because it involved the Cubs and their curse, but I think if it happened to another team, in the playoffs, especially in game where they could have clinched the league championship it, would still be a big deal. Look at Jeff Maier.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to our coaches this off-season. I think Presley may be done, but maybe also Wiley, it depends on whether or not the FO pins the blame on the early season failure of Ricky, the sophomore slump and lack of adjustment of Volstad, and Miller's fortunes on him or if they give Wiley credit for JJ's strong return. Wiley hasn't done a bad job at all, imo. The only coach on this coaching staff that I like. I like him too (obviously, see avatar ), and think our pitching struggles have been more a sign of those individuals than of Wiley's ability. Plus, Wiley's had his hands full with early season Rickey, Volstad, and Miller, plus our mystery 5th starter, so this season he's had to juggle many balls. I think that is another reason why we should get a veteran, semi-successful back of the rotation guy. He can be the "TA" of sorts to Wiley's "Professor."

Look, in the late innings 1 run game, you throw the best guys you can. That's what you do? Why is it so difficult to understand why some of us are angry with Tosca and Fredi for not doing that. It's understandable, when we were still up, we threw out Tim Wood and Brian Sanches, but when the game became close at the end, throwing up Luis Ayala and Brenden Donnelly instead of the best guys we had? That's just stupid. Ayala probably should have been replaced after getting Morgan to sacrifice. That I will agree with, though using him initially, I wouldn't be too upset about because of the previous night's show against the Nats versus what Kiko and Meyer did the night before. You use Ayala, and when he shows the first sign of trouble, you yank him. But putting him in there, in a series where our bullpen hasn't exactly been lights out, doesn't bother me. Using him initially is actually a bigger problem. In a key situation...Ayala should never be used against lefties. Period. EDIT: And he shouldn't be used, at all, when our 2 best relievers are sitting fresh in the pen. Eh, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't mind giving a reliever, even one is bad stats wise but is still relatively new to our team and division, a chance to prove himself in a tight situation when he pitched well against the same opponent the night before, though you should have a shorter leash. You have those better guys warming up just in case, but some of our better guys haven't faired so well against the Nats the past few games (albeit, as you said, for Meyer it was one bad pitch and the matchup favored him (that is what I remembered discussion about re: complaining about Fredi (you weren't complaining to the best of my recollection, so sorry if it came across as of I was accusing you of something), but now I can't find it). Anyways, back on point regarding using Ayala and what was happening around him in terms of our bullpend: it is how roles get shaken up. Not that I expect Ayala to become a dominant closer or set up guy, far from it. But especially with Hopper on the DL and our rotating 4th/5th starter, the bullpen is experiencing high turnover, in terms of roles. I can see the logic behind it. Though, again, shorter leash. Probably should have pulled him after the walk, if not the sacrifice.

I am of two minds regarding Freddi. On the one hand, this team has had noticeable holes in all of the seasons he has been our manager. Hitting, for example, which while he is ultimately in charge of, falls on Presley, who was not hired by Freddi. Despite the holes, he still got us to the best record we had in nonplayoff years last year. He is essentially managing with what he's got and is doing a fair job with it. On the other, he still makes headscratching moves sometimes. I know Boni is the FO's guy, but Freddi could have at least moved him down in the order. I don't think he is actively losing us games, but some moves set us behind the 8 ball. That being said, I don't know who you would replace him with. It would have to be someone with experience, otherwise we would get another year of learning how to manage, like we've seen from Freddi and even Girardi.

Look, in the late innings 1 run game, you throw the best guys you can. That's what you do? Why is it so difficult to understand why some of us are angry with Tosca and Fredi for not doing that. It's understandable, when we were still up, we threw out Tim Wood and Brian Sanches, but when the game became close at the end, throwing up Luis Ayala and Brenden Donnelly instead of the best guys we had? That's just stupid. Ayala probably should have been replaced after getting Morgan to sacrifice. That I will agree with, though using him initially, I wouldn't be too upset about because of the previous night's show against the Nats versus what Kiko and Meyer did the night before. You use Ayala, and when he shows the first sign of trouble, you yank him. But putting him in there, in a series where our bullpen hasn't exactly been lights out, doesn't bother me.