September 28, 20169 yr except for the fact that there is literally NO STARTING PITCHING on the market. Well that's not factual. I literally don't think you know what the definition of literally is. Maybe there isn't game-changing starting pitching on the market, but there are starting pitchers.
September 28, 20169 yr Well ok, I should really specify, there are no starters that would be worth signing that would be considered good options for 1-3 in the rotation.
September 28, 20169 yr Well ok, I should really specify, there are no starters that would be worth signing that would be considered good options for 1-3 in the rotation. That's better
September 28, 20169 yr Sad realty is this: Marlins were fucked in 2017 with lack of pitching depth and lack of a true #2 starter. The new reality is they are really fucked now, as they dont have a #1 or #2 starter now. And that isnt changing, unless they move one of: Stanton or Yelich.
September 28, 20169 yr Author If Chen can do what he's done in the past, he is a #2. I agree. He was not good this year but he was also very frustrating. Many games where he was cruising and then would get blasted in one inning. Too many 2 out runs and poorly times home runs.
September 28, 20169 yr If Chen can do what he's done in the past, he is a #2. Yes and I also think some underrate Conley's potential
September 28, 20169 yr One way or another Chen Conley and Koehler are locks. Two spots needed to be filled and depth cannot be taken for granted. That's where we are today.
September 28, 20169 yr Yes and I also think some underrate Conley's potential Yeah. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he could be a low-end No. 2 or at least a really good No. 3. He just needs to get those walks down.
September 28, 20169 yr Yes and I also think some underrate Conley's potential I love Conley. But based on everything I saw in his minor league and major league progression, his potential is as a #3 starter. He'll never be a #1/2 guy.
September 28, 20169 yr I love Conley. But based on everything I saw in his minor league and major league progression, his potential is as a #3 starter. He'll never be a #1/2 guy. Fair enough, but yesterday someone here said the fish only have 4s and 5s and that's not right.
September 28, 20169 yr Conley's numbers this season were on par with a low end #3. Obviously the inning count isn't what it should be, but he's one of the few consistent pitchers we had. In 12 of his 25 starts, Conley went 5 innings+ and allowed 2 or less ER. The biggest reason why he's still likely a #4 rather and than a full fledged #3 is the pitch count issue. Far too often his starts go under 5 IP and create stress on the bullpen. I love the consistency with his stuff, but the ability to work fast is an issue. 133 IP when working just about the full season isn't close to good enough. But if I'm not going to judge him super critically, Conley is one of the biggest reasons the Marlins are around .500 this year. The rotation was a mess with Jose, and after Chen fell apart there were huge problems that would ruin most teams. Conley being a consistently above average pitcher all year helped provide some stability to the rotation that we needed. I'm still on board with trading Koehler. He's the definition of consistently inconsistent.
September 28, 20169 yr I'm still on board with trading Koehler. He's the definition of consistently inconsistent. He is a solid enough #5
September 28, 20169 yr He is a solid enough #5 I don't think that's good enough. Starting pitching in the National League East especially is so good that having pitchers like Koehler in the rotation long term has been a liability. Sure he's been an acceptable #5 (incredibly given his HR and walk totals) but I think it's time for the front office to start to strive for more than just that.
September 28, 20169 yr I don't think that's good enough. Starting pitching in the National League East especially is so good that having pitchers like Koehler in the rotation long term has been a liability. Sure he's been an acceptable #5 (incredibly given his HR and walk totals) but I think it's time for the front office to start to strive for more than just that. How many teams have a better #5 pitcher?
September 28, 20169 yr Koehler isn't the issue. I'll happily take his 180 innings of 4 ERA ball as a #5 given our current predicament. Right now he's our #3 and that needs to change but he is dependable at the back end of the rotation.
September 28, 20169 yr Koehler isn't the issue. I'll happily take his 180 innings of 4 ERA ball as a #5 given our current predicament. Right now he's our #3 and that needs to change but he is dependable at the back end of the rotation. Right.
September 28, 20169 yr How many teams have a better #5 pitcher? Astros (Brad Peacock) Blue Jays (Francisco Liriano) Brewers (Matt Garza) Cardinals (Jaime Garcia) Cubs (Jason Hammel) Dodgers (Julio Urias) Indians (Carlos Carrasco/Danny Salazar) Mariners (Ariel Miranda) Mets (Steve Matz) Nationals (Joe Ross) Phillies (Alec Asher/look at miilb stats) Rays (Alex Cobb/this year notwithstanding) Red Sox (Eduardo Rodriguez) Reds (Tim Adelman) Royals (Jason Vargas/injured recently) Tigers (Daniel Norris) White Sox (Miguel Gonzalez) On this list, I'd say there are 11 guaranteed better #5 starters than Koehler (Peacock, Liriano, Garcia, Hammel, Urias, Carrasco, Matz, Ross, Cobb, Rodriguez, Norris). The others are open for some discussion. I'll say the fact he's been in the rotation for over three years works in Koehler's favor. He is valuable and an acceptable #5. I do however think we could find better and that he is one of the few pieces we have that should be used as trade bait.
September 28, 20169 yr On this list, I'd say there are 11 guaranteed better #5 starters than Koehler (Peacock, Liriano, Garcia, Hammel, Urias, Carrasco, Matz, Ross, Cobb, Rodriguez, Norris). The others are open for some discussion. Assuming you're right about 11 (don't have time to research), that still would mean 18 other teams have worse #5's. hardly seems to be one of the team's issues. Many other things to worry about instead. Problem is TK isn't being used as a #5, we need more arms so he's a #5.
September 28, 20169 yr Yes and I also think some underrate Conley's potential if he doesn't get his velo back to 93/94 he'll be a left handed TK at best, unfortunately
September 28, 20169 yr if he doesn't get his velo back to 93/94 he'll be a left handed TK at best, unfortunately Can't debate that
September 28, 20169 yr his velo chart looks the opposite of promising http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=14457&position=P&pitch=FA
September 28, 20169 yr his velo chart looks the opposite of promising http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=14457&position=P&pitch=FA Here's what I'm wondering: was the finger bothering him enough before hitting the DL to affect this velocity?
September 28, 20169 yr Koehler has a lifetime 4.11 ERA, 4.32 FIP, allows less than a hit per inning, induces a decent amount of ground balls and eats innings. It would be nice if he could get the walks down, but otherwise, he is just fine for a No. 5 starter. Perfect, actually. As crazy as it sounds, TK has actually become underappreciated around these parts, and it's due to the fact that--as many have already stated--he is being asked to do more than he is capable of. If we miss out on the playoffs next year, it won't be because Koehler is our No. 5. It will be because he's our No. 3.
September 28, 20169 yr Anyone think Jamie Garcia, Gio Gonzalez or Jason Hammell has their club options declined? Wow that FA SP class is brutal
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