2020 Post-Season Thread

[rmc523]

39 minutes ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

Nick Castellanos was an MVP candidate before he stumbled to.  Take no stock into that please. 

But JT is a catcher, ok that's a fair argument, but he's also an aging one, that may ask for a decade long contract, with the highest positional amount in history.  Give me a break, he's not even the best catcher in baseball and if he is, he won't sustain it.  He couldn't even preform in philly with a contract year.  

You can say the acquisitions of 2012 brought in attendance, but I think it was the new location that drawed fans in. Yeah, the attempt to bring in high profile players helped, but if it can't be filled later when Jose was on the mound and Stanton, Yelich and Ozuna was emerging as stars is a bit alarming.  Let's not forget JT didn't help attendance here either, but now all of a sudden he will.

The highest attendance was 1993,  1994, 1997, and 2012.  Two of those years 1993 & 2012 where expansion years and 1994 was a junior year, baseball was all fresh and 2012 was refreshing. (Although it had the opposite butterfly effect).  

Marlins are ready to win and they will, but the worst thing you can do is break up a young team who will be free agents in the middle of aging overpriced catcher. 

 

The Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto teams didn't win, though.  And this town doesn't show up for a team that's not winning, especially over a 162 game season.

If Realmuto came back, no it wouldn't cause a jump in attendance by himself, but he'd be an addition to the club that would hopefully help us win more, which would increase attendance.

I'm not advocating signing him to a mega deal, but just pointing out those aspects of it.

[ZfromCIS]

1 hour ago, Michael said:

I think he retired didn't he?

And also ... why?

My bad. I meant James.

[1.618]

55 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

The Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto teams didn't win, though.  And this town doesn't show up for a team that's not winning, especially over a 162 game season.

If Realmuto came back, no it wouldn't cause a jump in attendance by himself, but he'd be an addition to the club that would hopefully help us win more, which would increase attendance.

I'm not advocating signing him to a mega deal, but just pointing out those aspects of it.

I agree, we need to win in order to draw attendance. TJ may help in terms of winning, but I don't think it's worth the risk if he gets what he's asking for. Another risk, IMO is his character. He was vocal about leaving Miami, he choked in philly like Bryce Harper, who historically is a me first type player, and now TJ probably won't work with the phils unless they bend over to his offer.

IDK it's a Loria move if you ask me. Just like it was a Loria move when he signed Stanton. That was in large part to keep the fans that haven't left, to not leave altogether.  It may look good at the time but it usually never is, not those type of deals. 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by jeffreysfishfry

[EricOwens!]

Mid relief, mid rotation, and maybe a catcher if you don't like alfaro. That's what we should limit ourselves to. Dont go crazy (unless JT is realistic) and let the prospects play ball. We already added Marte lets not act like that isn't significant.

[TaiwanMarlins]

If this team wants to spend big money then it should be on the offensive and not the pitching, Hernandez and Rogers could filled the last two spots in the rotation. 

[TaiwanMarlins]

So base in the next season be the fourth year of rebuilding and the postseason made of the last season, the 2021 season would be a semi-"win now" and semi- rebuilding season ?

[GuitarPik]

Damn. Fuckin Braves. 

[TaiwanMarlins]

4 minutes ago, GuitarPik said:

Damn. Fuckin Braves. 

Think in reverse, if the Braves beat the Dodgers then it means we're not that bad to lose to them. 

[TaiwanMarlins]

If this team lose their mind and go all in for the next season then I would be very happy, sometimes you just need some impulse and irrationality to success.

[TaiwanMarlins]

If we shouldn't go all in for JT, then we should go all in for McCann. 

[Michael]

13 hours ago, ZfromCIS said:

My bad. I meant James.

That makes a lot more sense. 😁

Too many catching McCann's. Couldn't one of them play second base or something?

[Photo-Realistic Billy]

14 hours ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

Another risk, IMO is his character. He was vocal about leaving Miami...

I don't remember him being vocal about leaving. If anything, the fact he stayed so long suggests he was being a good citizen -- or at least the best among the trio of him Stanton and Yelich. I do believe his agent said something to the affect of him preferring to be traded to a contender, but that was only well after it was apparent he was going to be traded anyway.

If the price were right, and it won't be, I could see the Marlins signing him. But someone is going to dole out over $150M and that's what it's ultimately going to take.

[SilverBullet]

9 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

the 2021 season would be a semi-"win now" and semi- rebuilding season ?

Absolutely not. 2021 will not be a rebuilding season, the team will be expected to win and I expect all transactions to be made with winning in mind. 

Understand that they may still not be as good as they were in 2020 for many reasons but there's zero reason to tank in 2021... they'll definitely be trying to win.

[SilverBullet]

8 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

If this team lose their mind and go all in for the next season then I would be very happy, sometimes you just need some impulse and irrationality to success.

OMG really?

Good luck creating a winner with impulse and irrationality.

[SilverBullet]

7 minutes ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

I don't remember him being vocal about leaving. If anything, the fact he stayed so long suggests he was being a good citizen -- or at least the best among the trio of him Stanton and Yelich. I do believe his agent said something to the affect of him preferring to be traded to a contender, but that was only well after it was apparent he was going to be traded anyway.

He only stayed as long because the team wanted to keep him so they tried to get him to eventually like being here, I wouldn't put his extended stay as some compliment about him. He actually asked to be traded the year before when everyone else was being traded and through his agent he said he wouldn't sign an extension in Miami. Sounds like he was pretty unhappy through the entire 2018 season here.

 

[Michael]

7 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

OMG really?

Good luck creating a winner with impulse and irrationality.

Worked so well for us the last decade!

[TaiwanMarlins]

1 hour ago, SilverBullet said:

 

 

Oh, JT requests a trade again after we sign back him …

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Absolutely not. 2021 will not be a rebuilding season, the team will be expected to win and I expect all transactions to be made with winning in mind. 

Understand that they may still not be as good as they were in 2020 for many reasons but there's zero reason to tank in 2021... they'll definitely be trying to win.

As I've said in the other thread, my realistic expectation is for around .500 (hopefully slightly over) over the 162 for 2021.

[SilverBullet]

3 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

As I've said in the other thread, my realistic expectation is for around .500 (hopefully slightly over) over the 162 for 2021.

.500? Marlins are such "middle feeders" and you gotta beat the Middle Feeders. And if you don't think the Marlins are Middle Feeders then we'll see a few weeks into the 2021 season and we'll see where they are.

[1.618]

6 hours ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

I don't remember him being vocal about leaving. If anything, the fact he stayed so long suggests he was being a good citizen -- or at least the best among the trio of him Stanton and Yelich. I do believe his agent said something to the affect of him preferring to be traded to a contender, but that was only well after it was apparent he was going to be traded anyway.

If the price were right, and it won't be, I could see the Marlins signing him. But someone is going to dole out over $150M and that's what it's ultimately going to take.

Maybe it was Yelich IDK.  I thought it could have been either one or maybe none at all at this point. 

Didn't we try to work out a deal with JT but he refused?  If so, do you know if the offer was as competitive as the Phillies?  I thought I heard rumors that the  Marlins tried negotiating but it didn't materialize.  

[ZfromCIS]

8 hours ago, Michael said:

That makes a lot more sense. 😁

Too many catching McCann's. Couldn't one of them play second base or something?

Right? But yea I think signing McCann to a 12-15 mil a year deal is the way to go with the catching situation and some more pop. James is great with pitchers and he’ll smack 18 over the fence.

[Michael]

10 minutes ago, ZfromCIS said:

Right? But yea I think signing McCann to a 12-15 mil a year deal is the way to go with the catching situation and some more pop. James is great with pitchers and he’ll smack 18 over the fence.

Wouldn't surprise me if we could get him for a lot less than that. Like a 3/35 deal could maybe get it done. Don't want to give him too long of a deal, but I mean. 4/50 perhaps at the most.

[ZfromCIS]

35 minutes ago, Michael said:

Wouldn't surprise me if we could get him for a lot less than that. Like a 3/35 deal could maybe get it done. Don't want to give him too long of a deal, but I mean. 4/50 perhaps at the most.

Probably. I don’t know how we don’t consider McCann being that it’s the biggest hole in our lineup fielding and hitting wise.

[CYmarlins]

10 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Absolutely not. 2021 will not be a rebuilding season, the team will be expected to win and I expect all transactions to be made with winning in mind. 

Understand that they may still not be as good as they were in 2020 for many reasons but there's zero reason to tank in 2021... they'll definitely be trying to win.

100% the one thing I can really commend this new regime and their mindset has been having a plan and sticking to it. Marte and Kintzler seem like absolute locks to have their options picked up

Veteran pitcher would be very nice to have in the rotation to be that 3/4 guy that was mentioned previously.

Many of the rookies that made their debuts this season will find themselves back in the minors to start the season, the exception might be Jazz but that is why you have someone like Berti.

Re-sign Mike Hill to an extension and I look forward to the winter meetings.

[FishFan95]

On 10/12/2020 at 4:12 PM, jeffreysfishfry said:

Nick Castellanos was an MVP candidate before he stumbled to.  Take no stock into that please. 

But JT is a catcher, ok that's a fair argument, but he's also an aging one, that may ask for a decade long contract, with the highest positional amount in history.  Give me a break, he's not even the best catcher in baseball and if he is, he won't sustain it.  He couldn't even preform in philly with a contract year.  

You can say the acquisitions of 2012 brought in attendance, but I think it was the new location that drawed fans in. Yeah, the attempt to bring in high profile players helped, but if it can't be filled later when Jose was on the mound and Stanton, Yelich and Ozuna was emerging as stars is a bit alarming.  Let's not forget JT didn't help attendance here either, but now all of a sudden he will.

The highest attendance was 1993,  1994, 1997, and 2012.  Two of those years 1993 & 2012 where expansion years and 1994 was a junior year, baseball was all fresh and 2012 was refreshing. (Although it had the opposite butterfly effect).  

Marlins are ready to win and they will, but the worst thing you can do is break up a young team who will be free agents in the middle of aging overpriced catcher. 

 

Who is the best catcher in baseball then? JT stumbled at the end of the year, but that was based on a 25 game span. That is the definition of small sample sizes. And regardless of his offense, he is regarded as a fantastic defensive catcher.

Attendance was better in 2004 and 2005 even though the team was better in 2003. That's because the team was good out of nowhere rather than people expecting it from the outset. People showed up in 2012 rather than the following years with all of that star power because there was an expectation that the team would be good. Remember how Stanton said that we would be out of it by May every year. That was the general feeling in the area. It is only the revisionists who look back at the 2016-17 teams and say that they were good.

Adding a bit of star power at the most important position in the field to a team that is good enough to content is not going to make the team bad. And it will certainly boost enthusiasm in South Florida. It also is not going to keep the team from signing other players considering they have no other commitments. Besides, he is not going to get a decade long commitment. The days of contracts that long to players at or above 30 is over, especially for a catcher. Around 6 / $138-150 M will do it.