November 15, 201213 yr Author Ken Rosenthal �@Ken_Rosenthal #BlueJays-#Marlins deal likely not finalized until Fri. or Sat. Reyes was in Dubai. Returning tonight. Needs to fly to Florida for physical.
November 16, 201213 yr I don't have a problem trading Reyes. During the season I argued that his contract was a bad one going forward. However, rather than getting rid of everyone and destroying the fan base, Loria should have fired Beinfest and reinvested the $40M (or so) saved with the Hanley, Reyes, Bell and Sanchez trades to rebuild.
November 16, 201213 yr The 2013 team should be composed of veterans and holding the positions until these guys can develop. Players like Juan Pierre, Carlos Lee, Manny Ramitez, and Kouzmanoff should be given chances to perform one last time. Soria and Madsden should be signed to 3 year deals and let them get healthy for mid 2013 and 2014. They absolutely should not throw so many rookies out there at once. Hechecaria, Escobar and Alvarez- fine. Sign two on their last leg SP looking for jobs and plug them in the rotation- the Zito and Webb/Bondermans. At this point, they should do the exact opposite of that. I get it, I mean if you're going to start kids then don't waste time giving at-bats to old guys who may not be around in year 20** when the kids are all good. And I don't want Pierre and Manny and the guys above, but I just feel like if they go out and at least get like a Haren or something for 3 years it at least saves some face. And realistically throwing that rotation of kids out there all season to take a beating is probably going to be brutal. Wouldn't hurt to add a vet in there. and yeah attendance will suck anyway and it won't make fans love them so why bother... I dunno. I wouldn't mind Haren. Just saying, signing old guys who can't even play anymore/giving relievers 3-year deals is definitely not the answer. It doesn't matter though because this front office is pretty evidently going to do nothing this offseason. My point was to not stunt the development of those prospects we have by allowing them to learn bad habits at the ML level while they stuggle. Sign veterans that can provide a "Competitive" team (I use it loosely) and allow these players to develop further (atleast another year). A team with Manny in LF would be somewhat something to see, especially considering he'll probably not cost much. In my scenario- the team would be this for 2012, which isn't THAT horrible to watch. Most of the Vets below would be looking for a chance to re-establish their market and earn another contract in 2014. (Youkilis the exception) C- Brantly (70% games) Mathis (30%) 1B- Logan Morrison 2B- Orlando Hudson 3B- Eric Chavez, Casey McGhee or Kevin Youkilis SS- Hechevaria LF- Manny Ramirez CF- Justin Ruggiano RF- Giancarlo Stanton SP Nolasco (Kinda Stuck according to Comments) SP Jacob Turner SP Nathan Eovaldi SP Henderson Alvarez SP Wade Leblanc * SP Roberto Hernandez (Would like to see signed) *SP Dallas Braden or Brandon McCarthy (IF Nolasco is moved) *SP Kevin Millwood or Chris Young (If they want to go to a 6 man rotation to protect the younger arms) CL-Cishek If they open their wallets a bit, Josh Hamilton, Carlos Lee, and Dan Haren on NTC's to prepare for 2014 would be nice, but I've given up on that.
November 16, 201213 yr What's pretty obnoxious is Samson saying stupid sh*t like "you may not know who these player are, but our baseball people do." What an asshole. f*** this condescending prick. Often, Samson says, people focus too much on the big names of players, and not the end results. "So I hear you, it's the names," Samson said. Players like Anderson Perez, amirite?
November 16, 201213 yr My point was to not stunt the development of those prospects we have by allowing them to learn bad habits at the ML level while they stuggle. Sign veterans that can provide a "Competitive" team (I use it loosely) and allow these players to develop further (atleast another year). A team with Manny in LF would be somewhat something to see, especially considering he'll probably not cost much. In my scenario- the team would be this for 2012, which isn't THAT horrible to watch. Most of the Vets below would be looking for a chance to re-establish their market and earn another contract in 2014. (Youkilis the exception) C- Brantly (70% games) Mathis (30%) 1B- Logan Morrison 2B- Orlando Hudson 3B- Eric Chavez, Casey McGhee or Kevin Youkilis SS- Hechevaria LF- Manny Ramirez CF- Justin Ruggiano RF- Giancarlo Stanton SP Nolasco (Kinda Stuck according to Comments) SP Jacob Turner SP Nathan Eovaldi SP Henderson Alvarez SP Wade Leblanc * SP Roberto Hernandez (Would like to see signed) *SP Dallas Braden or Brandon McCarthy (IF Nolasco is moved) *SP Kevin Millwood or Chris Young (If they want to go to a 6 man rotation to protect the younger arms) CL-Cishek If they open their wallets a bit, Josh Hamilton, Carlos Lee, and Dan Haren on NTC's to prepare for 2014 would be nice, but I've given up on that. Can we stop with this Hamilton BS? This is a bad contract waiting to happen. Dude's breaking down and is asking for the stars. Just go minor league Marlins next year. Why waste time playing vets when we have a stable of prospects that need to be figured out?
November 16, 201213 yr My point was to not stunt the development of those prospects we have by allowing them to learn bad habits at the ML level while they stuggle. Sign veterans that can provide a "Competitive" team (I use it loosely) and allow these players to develop further (atleast another year). A team with Manny in LF would be somewhat something to see, especially considering he'll probably not cost much. In my scenario- the team would be this for 2012, which isn't THAT horrible to watch. Most of the Vets below would be looking for a chance to re-establish their market and earn another contract in 2014. (Youkilis the exception) C- Brantly (70% games) Mathis (30%) 1B- Logan Morrison 2B- Orlando Hudson 3B- Eric Chavez, Casey McGhee or Kevin Youkilis SS- Hechevaria LF- Manny Ramirez CF- Justin Ruggiano RF- Giancarlo Stanton SP Nolasco (Kinda Stuck according to Comments) SP Jacob Turner SP Nathan Eovaldi SP Henderson Alvarez SP Wade Leblanc * SP Roberto Hernandez (Would like to see signed) *SP Dallas Braden or Brandon McCarthy (IF Nolasco is moved) *SP Kevin Millwood or Chris Young (If they want to go to a 6 man rotation to protect the younger arms) CL-Cishek If they open their wallets a bit, Josh Hamilton, Carlos Lee, and Dan Haren on NTC's to prepare for 2014 would be nice, but I've given up on that. Can we stop with this Hamilton BS? This is a bad contract waiting to happen. Dude's breaking down and is asking for the stars. Just go minor league Marlins next year. Why waste time playing vets when we have a stable of prospects that need to be figured out? Re-read what I said. The answer to your question is also in bold.
November 16, 201213 yr This team ain't spending a dime. There will be no big name free agents, and what I mean by that is inclusive of the Manny type, inclusive of the Cantu type, inclusive of the Chavez type, inclusive of even the Carlos Lee type. Anyone that will require anything other than cheap as holy f*** will not be here. It's a cycle. Right now is ultimate low spending. It's 2006 again. I'm sure they'll consider adding parts when the prospect pool is better developed down the line. Zero point in trying to build a competing team from the FA pool. Wont happen, and the team wont compete anyways.
November 16, 201213 yr Bold prediction. This team will still suck 3 -4 years from now. You are probably correct.
November 16, 201213 yr What can he realistically even do? Push Loria out the way he did with McCourt. Selling has helped Loria and now it's pretty clear that Loria is abusing. You mean the same Selig who giftwrapped the Marlins to Loria in the first place???
November 16, 201213 yr Re-read what I said. The answer to your question is also in bold. Mea culpa. I don't think Brandon McCarthy would sign here, nor would we sign him. I'm iffy on Manny too but I would think the Marlins are going to sign at least a stop gap player at each empty position on a 1 or 2 year deal and have the prospects come up at play ala Brantly last year.
November 16, 201213 yr The majority of these guys are projected to hit the majors by 2014, so there's always that....
November 16, 201213 yr I dont think we will be seeing any big name free agent signings for a long time. They will build a team around the pieces we currently have, and they will probably suck. A LOT. Maybe, a couple of years down the line, if some of these prospects turn out to be good, and we have Stanton locked up long term, they will start to sign a name here or there. The fact that they went out and spent all that money last off-season and it still landed them last in the division sealed our doom. They can get the same results with a bunch of scrubs.
November 16, 201213 yr Bomani Jones made a couple great points about the trade: 2. If the team would have shopped these players individually, instead of as one big stupid package, the team could have got much more back I don't know that I buy that. We were the high bidders for Buehrle and Reyes in FA. I'm not sure that teams would line up to take on those inflated contracts or they would have gotten them in the first place (contracts which are now worse since we used up the 1st year on the cheap) while at the same time giving us their best prospects in the deal. The other aspect is that once teams know you are in salary dump mode, which an offseason trade of any of Reyes/Buehrle/Boni/JJ would have made clear, then they can lower their offers. You lose your leverage once they know you have no alternative to trading those guys.
November 16, 201213 yr I hope Stanton continues to voice his displeasure and we try to trade him. At that point would MLB have a legit reason to remove our ownership because we're not operating in baseball's best interest? What would it take?
November 16, 201213 yr The majority of these guys are projected to hit the majors by 2014, so there's always that.... in any other system, maybe. all these guys will be on the opening day roster for the MAAArlins
November 16, 201213 yr Author Not sure if this has been posted but.... Ken Rosenthal �@Ken_Rosenthal Gammons (@pgammo) on @MLBNetwork saying @Giancarlo818 "not happy" with #Marlins' trade, has "serious concerns" about direction of club.
November 16, 201213 yr Not sure if this has been posted but.... Ken Rosenthal �@Ken_Rosenthal Gammons (@pgammo) on @MLBNetwork saying @Giancarlo818 "not happy" with #Marlins' trade, has "serious concerns" about direction of club. I'm actually not too worried about this. Stanton isn't a sour sport like Heath Bell. He'll be upset now but then he'll realize he's a successful leader here and will suck it up and go into Spring training ready to lead, whether he's liking this or not. He'll get over this. I just can't see him bashing the whole team and front office anymore than he already has. It just doesn't seem like his character. By the way, I'm surprised Morrison hasn't come out with more to say. He's always been a bit of an outspoken leader with things like this and hasn't shied away from voicing his opinion. How come he hasn't been any more vocal over all this? He was vocal over Hanley leaving, Ozzie being let go, the whole Wes Helms issues, and his own twitter AAA demotion last year.
November 16, 201213 yr Author Anyone who wanted Melky Cabrera, sorry. Blue Jays sign him to a two-year deal. (I know wrong thread)
November 16, 201213 yr Anyone who wanted Melky Cabrera, sorry. Blue Jays sign him to a two-year deal. (I know wrong thread) Ayyy, if you had told me a few years ago that Josh Johnson and Emilio Bonifacio would be on the same team in 2013 with Jose Reyes and Mr. M. Cabrera... I'd have been the happiest man on Earth.
November 16, 201213 yr Not sure if this has been posted but.... Ken Rosenthal �@Ken_Rosenthal Gammons (@pgammo) on @MLBNetwork saying @Giancarlo818 "not happy" with #Marlins' trade, has "serious concerns" about direction of club. I'm actually not too worried about this. Stanton isn't a sour sport like Heath Bell. He'll be upset now but then he'll realize he's a successful leader here and will suck it up and go into Spring training ready to lead, whether he's liking this or not. He'll get over this. I just can't see him bashing the whole team and front office anymore than he already has. It just doesn't seem like his character. By the way, I'm surprised Morrison hasn't come out with more to say. He's always been a bit of an outspoken leader with things like this and hasn't shied away from voicing his opinion. How come he hasn't been any more vocal over all this? He was vocal over Hanley leaving, Ozzie being let go, the whole Wes Helms issues, and his own twitter AAA demotion last year. The only thing he's said about this is that there's no point in being upset in something he can't control.
November 16, 201213 yr yeah he did a podcast with someone... he did say he thought fans were justified in being upset, just that he wasn't going to go nuts over things he has no control of (like you said).
November 16, 201213 yr I love how the marlins will use one bad year as a reason to not spend money like teams that spend money never make the playoffs or something. Yes Oakland made the playoffs but that was one year. And I also love how they talk about fielding competitive teams on low payrolls. Those teams blew 25 saves a year and ended up well out of the playoffs so I don't really know what they are so proud of.
November 16, 201213 yr Not sure if this has been posted but.... Ken Rosenthal �@Ken_Rosenthal Gammons (@pgammo) on @MLBNetwork saying @Giancarlo818 "not happy" with #Marlins' trade, has "serious concerns" about direction of club. but this was before Samson soothed the rioting fans by reassuring them that Nolasco was staying.
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