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he should just retire and become a pitching coach for some minor league Cali team. everyone wins.

 

also, the Marlins should sign Scherzer and Shields

 

I'm with you on Shields.. when he signs somewhere, its going to be for at least $100 million. I'm not sure our pockets are deep enough.

 

 

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Folly for the FO to think they could convince Haren to change his mind. Whatever offer they entertain better involve the Marlins sending the 10M they got from LA so the Marlins get the best possible prospect(s).

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Folly for the FO to think they could convince Haren to change his mind. Whatever offer they entertain better involve the Marlins sending the 10M they got from LA so the Marlins get the best possible prospect(s).

 

 

Or use the money in free agency for Shields

 

 

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Cosart, Koehler, Phelps/Hand 3-4-5 is not a playoff team (neither is Haren).

 

They need a # 3 SP

 

It's also a little ridiculous to assume Fernandez comes back 100% immediately. He will be an upgrade whenever back even at 75%, but expectations should be limited and if he is normal Jose, a bonus.

 

They need another SP and it's foolish of the front office to think otherwise. I think this is posturing and they know they need to do something.

 

I disagree. Their 1-2-3 and maybe even 4 spots in the rotation are fine. Cosart is good. However, one more would be nice.

 

 

I think it's a little too early to be definitely ringing the "Cossart is good" bell yet.

Maybe but I saw him pitch a few times last and had good command of his pitches. I think he'll be fine.

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Cosart, Koehler, Phelps/Hand 3-4-5 is not a playoff team (neither is Haren).

 

They need a # 3 SP

 

It's also a little ridiculous to assume Fernandez comes back 100% immediately. He will be an upgrade whenever back even at 75%, but expectations should be limited and if he is normal Jose, a bonus.

 

They need another SP and it's foolish of the front office to think otherwise. I think this is posturing and they know they need to do something.

 

I disagree. Their 1-2-3 and maybe even 4 spots in the rotation are fine. Cosart is good. However, one more would be nice.

 

 

I'd argue Cosart is one of the worst and/or unproven # 3 SP in baseball. He's a 5 on a great team, an acceptable 4 otherwise due to his projection potential. This isn't a knock against him, I like him and think he's going to be really solid for the franchise longterm, but he is still developing. Hopefully he hits his ceiling sooner than later and becomes that 2/3 and I'm just wrong. I'd rather be cautious though and get some more solid innings just in case.

 

Just in the NL East, he's matching up against A. Wood, Fister, DeGrom/Wheeler, and ok the Phillies suck. It's not even arguable with those first 3. You can even go 6-7 guys deep on some teams. Wacha is the 4 in St. Louis. Hard to compete with that for playoff spots.

 

I just scanned all teams. The only teams I can say that definitely have an equal or worse 3rd SP than the Marlins right now are the Astros, Diamondbacks, Phillies, Rangers, Rockies, and Twins. Not great company there.

 

They need a SP pretty bad. Haren would be OK if he plays, even if still below league average, because he is seemingly durable and isn't as bad as people think (with the added bonus this pushes Koehler/Phelps to bullpen which is fantastic for depth), but the missing piece on this team is a "completely healthy day 1 Fernandez" or a rock solid # 3 SP or better who will eat 190-210 innings and help a bullpen trickle down. Only the later is possible here.

 

I suspect we'll see a move before spring training. They can't possibly spend $350+ million in player contracts and enter a season with Cosart, Phelps, and Koehler as the 3-4-5. That's insane. They are in it to win it. A SP move is coming, or they'll somehow get Haren to pitch and hope for the best

First, I agree with you on taking the cautious approach. It's always better to be safe than sorry. Second, I also agree, albeit for different reasons, we should get another SP.

 

However, I've looked at those pitching match ups and I'm not that concerned. I feel confident we can toe the line until Jose comes back with what we have in Alvarez, Cosart, and Latos. However, I am concerned if Koehler can go the full season consistently and there's a big question mark on #5 since I'm not that confident in the options there. A 4-man rotation could be the solution. If course, signing another SP would best ideal. I know shields is on the radar but not if the current price rumored for his services is accurate.

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Cosart, Koehler, Phelps/Hand 3-4-5 is not a playoff team (neither is Haren).

 

They need a # 3 SP

 

It's also a little ridiculous to assume Fernandez comes back 100% immediately. He will be an upgrade whenever back even at 75%, but expectations should be limited and if he is normal Jose, a bonus.

 

They need another SP and it's foolish of the front office to think otherwise. I think this is posturing and they know they need to do something.

 

 

I disagree. Their 1-2-3 and maybe even 4 spots in the rotation are fine. Cosart is good. However, one more would be nice.

 

I'd argue Cosart is one of the worst and/or unproven # 3 SP in baseball. He's a 5 on a great team, an acceptable 4 otherwise due to his projection potential. This isn't a knock against him, I like him and think he's going to be really solid for the franchise longterm, but he is still developing. Hopefully he hits his ceiling sooner than later and becomes that 2/3 and I'm just wrong. I'd rather be cautious though and get some more solid innings just in case.

 

Just in the NL East, he's matching up against A. Wood, Fister, DeGrom/Wheeler, and ok the Phillies suck. It's not even arguable with those first 3. You can even go 6-7 guys deep on some teams. Wacha is the 4 in St. Louis. Hard to compete with that for playoff spots.

 

I just scanned all teams. The only teams I can say that definitely have an equal or worse 3rd SP than the Marlins right now are the Astros, Diamondbacks, Phillies, Rangers, Rockies, and Twins. Not great company there.

 

They need a SP pretty bad. Haren would be OK if he plays, even if still below league average, because he is seemingly durable and isn't as bad as people think (with the added bonus this pushes Koehler/Phelps to bullpen which is fantastic for depth), but the missing piece on this team is a "completely healthy day 1 Fernandez" or a rock solid # 3 SP or better who will eat 190-210 innings and help a bullpen trickle down. Only the later is possible here.

 

I suspect we'll see a move before spring training. They can't possibly spend $350+ million in player contracts and enter a season with Cosart, Phelps, and Koehler as the 3-4-5. That's insane. They are in it to win it. A SP move is coming, or they'll somehow get Haren to pitch and hope for the best

First, I agree with you on taking the cautious approach. It's always better to be safe than sorry. Second, I also agree, albeit for different reasons, we should get another SP.

 

However, I've looked at those pitching match ups and I'm not that concerned. I feel confident we can toe the line until Jose comes back with what we have in Alvarez, Cosart, and Latos. However, I am concerned if Koehler can go the full season consistently and there's a big question mark on #5 since I'm not that confident in the options there. A 4-man rotation could be the solution. If course, signing another SP would best ideal. I know shields is on the radar but not if the current price rumored for his services is accurate.

 

I don't think a 4 man rotation is the answer given Latos, and to a lesser extent Alvarez, injury history. Also don't think Fernandez should be expected back perfect (although anything from him is likely an upgrade as to their # 5 SP come August).

 

They know they need a SP. It's a process, but they'll eventually deal Haren and maybe some others (Cishek, Dietrich, Hand, Dyson, etc.) and get one.

 

I also like CJ Wilson (who makes 2/$38 hilariously enough). Marlins can send Angels Haren, receive back Wilson and $10-14 million, which is basically a scenario where Marlins get CJ for 2 years and $24-28 million (which is close to market rate considering Peavy got 2/$24), and Angels get a year of Haren and save $14-18 million. It's a good matchup, and the Marlins do like CJ as they tried to sign him before 2012 and would certainly be thrilled to get a "vocal leader type" and lefty. I think the Angels would be interested in ditching that salary to devote elsewhere, especially if the Marlins sweetened the pot and threw in some young arms (like a Hand, or Conley/Dayton to add a lefty on their depth chart). Just musing.

 

 

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yes I'm a fan of that CJ Wilson idea. We'd be getting his 34 and 35 age years but it's not a huge outlay of money (if Angels cover some salary) and considering I hoped they'd get Peavy originally, he's probably about the same level. And fair bet to bounce back somewhat.

 

 

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Isn't he another west coast guy that doesn't want to be here?

 

 

That was the reason he signed with the Angels, yes. He wanted to be closer to home.

 

He actually took less money from the Angels to play there. Marlins made the best bid and were turned down.

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So hypothetical scenario where Haren actually plays for us, our rotation becomes

 

Alvarez

 

Latos

 

Cosart

 

Haren

 

Koehler

 

Gotta believe that rotation puts up better results than Alvarez/Latos/Cosart/Koehler/Phelps. I was cool with Haren retiring under the assumption that we were going to get that 5th starting pitcher who is a capable #3 within the league. Unfortunately the best we got after adding Latos was Phelps (who isn't a terrible option, just not the perfect one). Gotta believe that if Haren plays his best he could post a mid 3 ERA for the team, which makes him a decent #3 starter. Biggest question is whether he'll half ass the season, deals with emotional/psychological issues/etc... if he were to pitch here in Miami as opposed to somewhere else.

 

Probably not the best idea to bank on Haren in the rotation next season for us. I personally think the report by Frisaro is the Marlins leaking to the media to try and drive up Haren's price tag or force a west coast team's to feel a little panic and pull the trigger on a trade.

 

 

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