Now we know why Sherman kept her around. She told him this team is good the way it is and was just unlucky, meaning no big spending needed. Give her credit, she knew how to keep her job.

38 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

This would literally be the worst possible scenario. 

I'm wondering now... she was with the Yankees and Dodgers, is she so conditioned to being in successful front offices that she is clueless because she doesn't know what to do with a failure of a team? Like they say a successful player doesn't make a good coach because they never dealt with real failure... maybe she has no experience running a bad team and thus the Marlins are a massive hurdle for her?

Could be quite possible. It's also a reason why a team like the Marlins should stop trying to emulate teams like the Yankees and stop poaching people from their organization. They (Yankees)  have crazy amounts of resources at their disposal that the Marlins don't have (or want to make available).  Why not find some people who have done well with small market clubs and lure them here so they understand how to make the most with fewer resources? This goes back to Loria's tenure too. It's just so stupid.

Edited October 5, 20224 yr by hovertical

16 minutes ago, hovertical said:

Why not find some people who have done well with small market clubs and lure them here so they understand how to make the most with fewer resources? 

You would think this is obvious but we've been run by too many Yankee-fan day dreamers. This change could be (and could have been) such a huge difference over time looking back at our history. You could say the Dombrowski days were run like this and that's why he made it work and so quickly too. Crazy to think that took just 5 seasons and when you look at other periods of "just 5 seasons" in Marlins history all they've done is shit the bed.

Edit: It's also weird when you realize how many other teams absolutely shy away from trying to be the Yankees and embrace being able to do more with less. The Marlins should have been one of the first teams to take that path.

I wonder how different things would have been if Mas had bought the team instead of this jackoff

3 minutes ago, Entendu said:

I wonder how different things would have been if Mas had bought the team instead of this jackoff

Closer ties to the area alone should have made him a better owner. We all know Jeter being part of the group was the only damn reason Sherman got it. I'd say another owner (Mas or otherwise) wouldn't be any worse but we also said that with Loria and look how we're paying for that sin.

22 minutes ago, hovertical said:

We all know Jeter being part of the group was the only damn reason Sherman got it.

I've also heard Mas didn't come up with the money needed so if that's true I'm not convinced it was only because of Jeter.

6 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

She can't be serious. 

Game 161 and she's still saying this crap? Stop giving her chances to speak.

She's worked in front offices long enough that it's impossible that she's this clueless over this much time. 

This has to be her God awful way of deflecting the media/the broadcasters/the public/etc.

She can't really be this dumb.

There's no way.

 

And in the Yankees front office, no less.

I honestly miss Larry Beinfest. Say what you want about him, but at least he had a clue. Literally every GM we have had since has been significantly worse.

 

4 hours ago, hovertical said:

Could be quite possible. It's also a reason why a team like the Marlins should stop trying to emulate teams like the Yankees and stop poaching people from their organization. They (Yankees)  have crazy amounts of resources at their disposal that the Marlins don't have (or want to make available).  Why not find some people who have done well with small market clubs and lure them here so they understand how to make the most with fewer resources? This goes back to Loria's tenure too. It's just so stupid.

Yeah, why we don't poach more people from the Rays FO, I'll never understand.

7 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I've also heard Mas didn't come up with the money needed so if that's true I'm not convinced it was only because of Jeter.

 

Not sure if this is true or not.

Mas ended up buying into InterMiami, and FWIW, from what I can find, they do have the highest payroll in MLS by about 2-3M, but we're also talking about 23._M total vs. what MLB teams cost, which are double, triple, quadruple, etc. more than that figure.

 

19 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

Setting us up for an uneventful off-season. 

More should have been said.

 

17 hours ago, Entendu said:

That is an awful thing for her to say... Like how fucking tone deaf. If she really believes that there is talent in this team to win 90+ games, then she's an idiot

 

I'll push back a bit on this comment to an extent.........I don't have a problem with her saying, "this season was a disappointment, we underperformed and had injuries."  I do agree that those were factors in the lack of success this year.  I didn't expect much from Garcia/Soler, but didn't expect them to be THAT bad, especially Garcia.  Same with injuries.

BUT there should've been more to the comment.  She absolutely CANNOT leave the team as-is and expect this team to magically be a contender, and only "hope" next season will be better.

Her quote should have been something along these lines...... "this season was a disappointment, we underperformed and had injuries, BUT we also plan on making several moves and upgrades via trades and FA to ensure we don't replicate this season's disappointment/lack of success, which isn't acceptable to anyone in the organization."  She should not just leave it at underperform/injuries and hope.  She has to project some determination for things to improve, and show that results matter.....not just shrug and move to next season.

As others have also said, her actions - or lack thereof - in season with roster management have left something to be desired, at best, which doesn't inspire confidence that what needs to be done will be done.

1 hour ago, Valid said:

And in the Yankees front office, no less.

I honestly miss Larry Beinfest. Say what you want about him, but at least he had a clue. Literally every GM we have had since has been significantly worse.

Hill was decent once Loria was gone. He was pretty amazing even during that COVID season.

12 hours ago, hovertical said:

Hill was decent once Loria was gone. He was pretty amazing even during that COVID season.

Yep and then we offered him a cut in salary right after that season.

2 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

Yep and then we offered him a cut in salary right after that season.

The price of stepping out of bounds, thinking for yourself, and doing a good job.

18 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Mas ended up buying into InterMiami, and FWIW, from what I can find, they do have the highest payroll in MLS by about 2-3M, but we're also talking about 23._M total vs. what MLB teams cost, which are double, triple, quadruple, etc. more than that figure.

I meant Mas coming up with the $1.2 billion to buy the team. If he could have put more into payroll than Sherman is one thing but he needed to actually buy the team first.

17 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I don't have a problem with her saying, "this season was a disappointment, we underperformed and had injuries."  I do agree that those were factors in the lack of success this year.  I didn't expect much from Garcia/Soler, but didn't expect them to be THAT bad, especially Garcia.  Same with injuries.

BUT there should've been more to the comment.  She absolutely CANNOT leave the team as-is and expect this team to magically be a contender, and only "hope" next season will be better.

Yes good point.

And she can still say this team is better than it's record (in the sense that multiple guys on the team did underperform) yet still be willing to improve the team this offseason. Of course she now has to actually go out and do that.

23 hours ago, hovertical said:

Hill was decent once Loria was gone. He was pretty amazing even during that COVID season.

10 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

Yep and then we offered him a cut in salary right after that season.

 

To play devil's advocate, Hill was also responsible for the unsuccessful trades of Yelich, JT, and to lesser extent Stanton (mega contract limited things there).

That said, his 2020 season would've had me giving him a new 3 year deal, though.......especially in hindsight with what we've had out of the FO.

 

6 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

I meant Mas coming up with the $1.2 billion to buy the team. If he could have put more into payroll than Sherman is one thing but he needed to actually buy the team first.

Right, I know what you meant.  I was reiterating that he could've potentially been a good owner if he got it, unless he would've been tapped out at MLB-level payrolls.

Shawn Armstrong, who Kim DFAd, looking great for rays right now

5 minutes ago, pollythewog said:

Shawn Armstrong, who Kim DFAd, looking great for rays right now

He was with the Rays before us too wasn't he?

On 10/6/2022 at 4:02 PM, rmc523 said:

 

To play devil's advocate, Hill was also responsible for the unsuccessful trades of Yelich, JT, and to lesser extent Stanton (mega contract limited things there).

That said, his 2020 season would've had me giving him a new 3 year deal, though.......especially in hindsight with what we've had out of the FO.

Contract or no contract, there is literally no excuse for the pittance of a return that we got for Stanton. He was coming off of arguably one of the best seasons ever, was quite possibly the best player in baseball at that time (let's remember he was an elite outfielder) and was still in his 20s. The fact that we didn't even get one prospect worth mentioning is inexcusable.

Now to be fair, Stanton pretty much saying "it's Yankees or nothing" did handicap the Marlins to an extent, but we still should have gotten something of significance for him. Salary dumping a guy who just hit 59 home runs is crazy.

I'll defend the JT trade a bit, because Sixto was a fantastic prospect at the time, and in 2020, it looked like it was going to end up being a great deal for us. But then injuries/laziness happened and we haven't seen Sixto since. I know it's a results-driven business, but injuries do play a role here.

2 minutes ago, Valid said:

Contract or no contract, there is literally no excuse for the pittance of a return that we got for Stanton. He was coming off of arguably one of the best seasons ever, was quite possibly the best player in baseball at that time (let's remember he was an elite outfielder) and was still in his 20s. The fact that we didn't even get one prospect worth mentioning is inexcusable.

Now to be fair, Stanton pretty much saying "it's Yankees or nothing" did handicap the Marlins to an extent, but we still should have gotten something of significance for him. Salary dumping a guy who just hit 59 home runs is crazy.

I'll defend the JT trade a bit, because Sixto was a fantastic prospect at the time, and in 2020, it looked like it was going to end up being a great deal for us. But then injuries/laziness happened and we haven't seen Sixto since. I know it's a results-driven business, but injuries do play a role here.

I still say they did well on the Stanton trade. He could seemingly never stay healthy most seasons, cost a disproportionate % of the teams payroll, refused to go anywhere BUT the Yankees - and they got rid of that ENTIRE contract?  Win for me all the way across the board and he hasn't even come close to being worth that contract either so it was, and is, a big win for Hill. In my opinion anyway.

 

See, with Realmuto the trade itself was solid, in theory, but where they (see:Ng) screwed it up was when they could have EASILY brought JT back to the team and simultaneously filled a pretty big hole that we still can't seem to nail down.  That would have been an absolutely coup had they made the trade and brought him back - which, let's be honest, at the price he signed for there's ZERO excuse he's not a Marlin again right now.  So that one is weird overall to me .

24 minutes ago, Valid said:

Contract or no contract, there is literally no excuse for the pittance of a return that we got for Stanton.

$300,000,000 though. There was really no precedent for that.

43 minutes ago, Valid said:

Contract or no contract, there is literally no excuse for the pittance of a return that we got for Stanton. He was coming off of arguably one of the best seasons ever, was quite possibly the best player in baseball at that time (let's remember he was an elite outfielder) and was still in his 20s. The fact that we didn't even get one prospect worth mentioning is inexcusable.

Now to be fair, Stanton pretty much saying "it's Yankees or nothing" did handicap the Marlins to an extent, but we still should have gotten something of significance for him. Salary dumping a guy who just hit 59 home runs is crazy.

I'll defend the JT trade a bit, because Sixto was a fantastic prospect at the time, and in 2020, it looked like it was going to end up being a great deal for us. But then injuries/laziness happened and we haven't seen Sixto since. I know it's a results-driven business, but injuries do play a role here.

I mean with the Stanton trade, if you recall there were pretty significant packages from both St. Louis and San Francisco for Stanton.  (probably the same names plus 1 or 2) from St. Louis for Stanton.  He said fuck no.

The package was significant from San Francisco as well, Stanton said, fuck no.

 

So when the industry and everyone knows these two things:

 

1. You have to move Stanton because of your new skinflint owner who is like the prior one but worse.

2. Stanton only wants to go to one team

 

It just slightly hinders your ability to get any real package.  For Mike Hill to get back what he did is actually fairly remarkable, all the while not having to pay that much of the contract.

Its hard to get a good return with two legs, 1 arm and 4 fingers literally bound together.

40 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I still say they did well on the Stanton trade. He could seemingly never stay healthy most seasons, cost a disproportionate % of the teams payroll, refused to go anywhere BUT the Yankees - and they got rid of that ENTIRE contract?  Win for me all the way across the board and he hasn't even come close to being worth that contract either so it was, and is, a big win for Hill. In my opinion anyway.

 

See, with Realmuto the trade itself was solid, in theory, but where they (see:Ng) screwed it up was when they could have EASILY brought JT back to the team and simultaneously filled a pretty big hole that we still can't seem to nail down.  That would have been an absolutely coup had they made the trade and brought him back - which, let's be honest, at the price he signed for there's ZERO excuse he's not a Marlin again right now.  So that one is weird overall to me .

Ya well Realmuto's demand was far more than Sherman would pay.

 

Well.

I've seen enough to know she IS and HAS BEEN the problem the last few years when it comes to ignoring team needs in-season until it's too late. 

I'm ready for them to move on this offseason from her and I hope she just opts to move elsewhere on her own.

43 minutes ago, hovertical said:

Well.

I've seen enough to know she IS and HAS BEEN the problem the last few years when it comes to ignoring team needs in-season until it's too late. 

I'm ready for them to move on this offseason from her and I hope she just opts to move elsewhere on her own.

I think we give her at least another year although they’d prob need to give her a multi year contract to retain her. Overall, there’s been very positive direction for the team despite a few blunders which may be $ related 

32 minutes ago, pollythewog said:

I think we give her at least another year although they’d prob need to give her a multi year contract to retain her. Overall, there’s been very positive direction for the team despite a few blunders which may be $ related 

It's literally been the same m.o. now for years with ignoring the team by not calling guys up when they should be called up to replace the underperforming regulars. She's clearly been the one who does that now as she's had full control for two seasons and nothing has changed in that regard 

Also, how do you give her "one more year" - isn't her contact up after this season? She's not taking a one year deal. 

She does moves in bursts and then it's long stretches of silence while she "evaluates" as the team flounders. She's just not proactive or even reactive enough to be a good GM.