45 minutes ago, hovertical said:

It's literally been the same m.o. now for years with ignoring the team by not calling guys up when they should be called up to replace the underperforming regulars. She's clearly been the one who does that now as she's had full control for two seasons and nothing has changed in that regard 

Also, how do you give her "one more year" - isn't her contact up after this season? She's not taking a one year deal. 

She does moves in bursts and then it's long stretches of silence while she "evaluates" as the team flounders. She's just not proactive or even reactive enough to be a good GM. 

This is actually the first year she's had full control the entire season.

Apparently.

Some word that Denbo still called shots last year.

6 minutes ago, Michael said:

This is actually the first year she's had full control the entire season.

Apparently.

Some word that Denbo still called shots last year.

literally nothing has changed - she's just not good at managing rosters in-season and replacing guys when we need depth brought up/in.

  she's had 2 years (at least). 

We've seen literally the same patterns of inactivity since Hill left during the season and it's cost this team wins. It's her.

3 minutes ago, hovertical said:

literally nothing has changed - she's just not good at managing rosters in-season and replacing guys when we need depth brought up/in.

  she's had 2 years (at least). 

We've seen literally the same patterns of inactivity since Hill left during the season and it's cost this team wins. It's her.

Bell and burger are pretty significant pieces now and going forward.

the roberston trade seemed like a great idea by everyone at the time

2 minutes ago, hovertical said:

literally nothing has changed - she's just not good at managing rosters in-season and replacing guys when we need depth brought up/in.

  she's had 2 years (at least). 

We've seen literally the same patterns of inactivity since Hill left during the season and it's cost this team wins. It's her.

She is decent at trades. Trading Marte for Luzardo was brilliant. The Tanner Scott trade was great, and the Bell and Burger acquisitions were good. But that's pretty much where it starts and ends. While she is decent at seeing value, she is not very good at properly constructing a roster.

1 minute ago, pollythewog said:

Bell and burger are pretty significant pieces now and going forward.

the roberston trade seemed like a great idea by everyone at the time

Off the top of my head, Edwards languished in the minors when he 100% needed to be brought up to fill a need - zero waiver wire pitching depth.  As has been pointed out...middle of a heated playoff race and our pitching rotation has TBD 2 of 3 games when we could have picked up depth easily to give them a better chance. 

Also, acquired Ryan Weathers to play in meaningful games this season.

In previous years it was more of the same. I remember Sanchez also going crazy in the minors and we just....let him stay there until they were so far out of the race it didn't matter. 

She's had the same pattern of bizarre refusal to call guys up for years now.  She just doesn't react fast enough and spends WAY too much time "evaluating".

4 minutes ago, Valid said:

She is decent at trades. Trading Marte for Luzardo was brilliant. The Tanner Scott trade was great, and the Bell and Burger acquisitions were good. But that's pretty much where it starts and ends. While she is decent at seeing value, she is not very good at properly constructing a roster.

and yeah, once again, I'm not saying she's putrid at her job.  She's made some good trades.  But she just can't seem to figure out how to manage a goddamn roster for some reason and it's repeatedly cost this team wins year over year.

5 minutes ago, hovertical said:

and yeah, once again, I'm not saying she's putrid at her job.  She's made some good trades.  But she just can't seem to figure out how to manage a goddamn roster for some reason and it's repeatedly cost this team wins year over year.

Yeah for sure. The team isn't built very well. I understand she went out and added guys like Bell and Burger at the deadline, but had she focused more on filling holes in the lineup during the offseason, the need for Bell and Burger wouldn't have been as pressing.

Of course, I do think Bruce has handicapped Kim a heck of a lot. It's pretty clear she's on a tight budget. But at the same time, some of her moves (or lack thereof) demonstrate that she doesn't have a very firm grasp on roster construction. And that's not even including her refusal to call guys up from the minors when it's clear the lineup could use a boost.

18 hours ago, hovertical said:

Well.

I've seen enough to know she IS and HAS BEEN the problem the last few years when it comes to ignoring team needs in-season until it's too late. 

I'm ready for them to move on this offseason from her and I hope she just opts to move elsewhere on her own.

Yeah, I'm not sure why she's so slow to react for callups.  Knee jerk isn't good either, but there has been a variety of times where we need help at position X, a guy in the minors is on fire at position X, and she'll just leave it be.

The weird thing is, I feel like she did better at it in the first half, and then suddenly she reverted to waiting forever again for whatever reason.

 

16 hours ago, pollythewog said:

Bell and burger are pretty significant pieces now and going forward.

the roberston trade seemed like a great idea by everyone at the time

Y'all are talking about different issues - trades largely haven't been as big of an issue for her - when she does make a trade, it's seemingly been well received, even if they don't all work out like Stallings.

He was referring to in season roster management.

 

16 hours ago, Valid said:

Yeah for sure. The team isn't built very well. I understand she went out and added guys like Bell and Burger at the deadline, but had she focused more on filling holes in the lineup during the offseason, the need for Bell and Burger wouldn't have been as pressing.

Of course, I do think Bruce has handicapped Kim a heck of a lot. It's pretty clear she's on a tight budget. But at the same time, some of her moves (or lack thereof) demonstrate that she doesn't have a very firm grasp on roster construction. And that's not even including her refusal to call guys up from the minors when it's clear the lineup could use a boost.

To be fair, she did go after a few different 1B guys like Turner, and they accepted other (sometimes lesser) offers with other teams.

 

I do agree, though, if she had done more work in any of the last few offseasons to address the holes we've had for years now, we'd have been in better shape.

It's just been the exact same pattern of sitting back and letting the team flounder versus moving around pieces they ALREADY have. The basic day-to-day stuff that continues to elude her from being a good GM.  She's not a terrible GM. I think some people keep thinking I'm sitting here saying she's terrible which she's not - but she continues to have serious shortcomings in a very key area that most GMs don't struggle with and that is in-season roster management.

Overall

She's just been average I guess?  I still think she's a tiny bit below average considering it's the routine stuff she truly fails at which should be things that a GM should be able to do beginning on day 1. 

If she leaves the Marlins of her own accord for a bigger offer elsewhere (which I really hope is what happens) then whoever replaces her will, at worst, be about the same, but there's a good chance they will be better - even if only slightly. 

 

Edit: What is frustrating though is that people keep acting like this is her first season where she's had any semblance of control and yet it's been a pretty much carbon copy of all the other seasons she's been the GM which points to this has been how she has run things all along and people just wanted to finger waggle at other possible suspects instead.

8 minutes ago, hovertical said:

It's just been the exact same pattern of sitting back and letting the team flounder versus moving around pieces they ALREADY have. The basic day-to-day stuff that continues to elude her from being a good GM.  She's not a terrible GM. I think some people keep thinking I'm sitting here saying she's terrible which she's not - but she continues to have serious shortcomings in a very key area that most GMs don't struggle with and that is in-season roster management.

Overall

She's just been average I guess?  I still think she's a tiny bit below average considering it's the routine stuff she truly fails at which should be things that a GM should be able to do beginning on day 1. 

If she leaves the Marlins of her own accord for a bigger offer elsewhere (which I really hope is what happens) then whoever replaces her will, at worst, be about the same, but there's a good chance they will be better - even if only slightly. 

 

Edit: What is frustrating though is that people keep acting like this is her first season where she's had any semblance of control and yet it's been a pretty much carbon copy of all the other seasons she's been the GM which points to this has been how she has run things all along and people just wanted to finger waggle at other possible suspects instead.

We’re .5 games out of the WC in mid September m8!

1 minute ago, pollythewog said:

We’re .5 games out of the WC in mid September m8!

yeah but we'd likely be an actual WC team had she not been the GM

again, this team is winning in spite of, not because of the FO

1 hour ago, hovertical said:

yeah but we'd likely be an actual WC team had she not been the GM

again, this team is winning in spite of, not because of the FO

I have my frustrations with her roster management, too, leaving Edwards down for so long being maybe the most ridiculous.

But I think your post goes too far. Does another GM actually trade for Luzardo, Bell and Burger? Maybe another GM doesn’t sign Avifail. Etc etc. Too hard to know.

Bottom line is that it’s mid-September, and we are truly in the playoff hunt, and so I think that puts a heavy thumb on the scale for keeping her around.

33 minutes ago, mystikol87 said:

I have my frustrations with her roster management, too, leaving Edwards down for so long being maybe the most ridiculous.

But I think your post goes too far. Does another GM actually trade for Luzardo, Bell and Burger? Maybe another GM doesn’t sign Avifail. Etc etc. Too hard to know.

Bottom line is that it’s mid-September, and we are truly in the playoff hunt, and so I think that puts a heavy thumb on the scale for keeping her around.

Well, first off with Luzardo, that was the A's GM calling up and making a DUH offer so I'm betting that yes, just about any GM would have taken that offer. Also, if you're giving her credit for the Lizard trade then you also have to admit she's been in charge since then and has failed every year with in-season roster mgmt.

Would another GM trade for Bell and/or Burger...why wouldn't they have I guess you could say? Do you think another GM would have just done nothing at the deadline? That doesn't make any sense honestly.

 

 

Reality - we can debate back and forth about different points, failures and successes of her moves or lack of moves.  Bottom line is, we’re in contention in September, just a half game out of the WC for the first time in forever, aside from the 2020 shortened season.  Even if we don’t make it, considering how terrible we’ve been over the last 15-20 years, she will get an extension should she choose to stay and not move on to another opportunity with another club.  I’d be shocked if one wasn’t offered.   But whether or not she looks for another opportunity is her call.

also, for what it’s worth, the White Sox - a potential destination for Kim - named Chris Getz their new senior vice president/GM on August 31st, so barring something else opening up, that opportunity is gone.

Y'all really don't realize what you have. I see a future where she leaves and is replaced by a total moron and we fade back into irrelevance. I'm good with where we are right now

Edited September 11, 20233 yr by Entendu

3 hours ago, mystikol87 said:

But I think your post goes too far. Does another GM actually trade for Luzardo, Bell and Burger? Maybe another GM doesn’t sign Avifail. Etc etc. Too hard to know.

Avi was Jeter's fault. Even as someone who thinks Kim's clock began earlier than last Tuesday, that one was all Derek.

2 hours ago, hovertical said:

Well, first off with Luzardo, that was the A's GM calling up and making a DUH offer so I'm betting that yes, just about any GM would have taken that offer. Also, if you're giving her credit for the Lizard trade then you also have to admit she's been in charge since then and has failed every year with in-season roster mgmt.

Would another GM trade for Bell and/or Burger...why wouldn't they have I guess you could say? Do you think another GM would have just done nothing at the deadline? That doesn't make any sense honestly.

 

 

I’m saying there’s too much unknown to have confidence about a counterfactual.

Was that what was reported about the A’s deal?

11 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Avi was Jeter's fault. Even as someone who thinks Kim's clock began earlier than last Tuesday, that one was all Derek.

Oh, was that the one where Jeter convinced him to sign and stuff. Ugh. Thanks for nothing, Jeter.

5 hours ago, hovertical said:

It's just been the exact same pattern of sitting back and letting the team flounder versus moving around pieces they ALREADY have. The basic day-to-day stuff that continues to elude her from being a good GM.  She's not a terrible GM. I think some people keep thinking I'm sitting here saying she's terrible which she's not - but she continues to have serious shortcomings in a very key area that most GMs don't struggle with and that is in-season roster management.

Overall

She's just been average I guess?  I still think she's a tiny bit below average considering it's the routine stuff she truly fails at which should be things that a GM should be able to do beginning on day 1. 

If she leaves the Marlins of her own accord for a bigger offer elsewhere (which I really hope is what happens) then whoever replaces her will, at worst, be about the same, but there's a good chance they will be better - even if only slightly. 

 

Edit: What is frustrating though is that people keep acting like this is her first season where she's had any semblance of control and yet it's been a pretty much carbon copy of all the other seasons she's been the GM which points to this has been how she has run things all along and people just wanted to finger waggle at other possible suspects instead.

HoverticaLou

1 minute ago, Michael said:

HoverticaLou

Banned for accuracy 

2 minutes ago, mystikol87 said:

Oh, was that the one where Jeter convinced him to sign and stuff. Ugh. Thanks for nothing, Jeter.

Yep. He was all buddy buddy with Avi from the sound of it and while Marte was waiting to hear back from us ol Jeter spent that money on Avi instead (even with Marte's decline that money clearly would have been better spent on him)

1 hour ago, SonOfJack said:

Avi was Jeter's fault. Even as someone who thinks Kim's clock began earlier than last Tuesday, that one was all Derek.

Last Tuesday??? There's no way it was that long ago!

The fact that she hasn’t been extended already considering our relative success makes me think she’s not really the one calling the shots. If she is however, I want her to stay.

so, who's our GM ?

2 hours ago, TaiwanMarlins said:

so, who's our GM ?

You